Hi all,
I’m about to start restoring/refinishing the single pane wood windows in our house. The windows are 45 years old and don’t seem to have had any care since day 1. We don’t have the cash right now for replacement.
I’m planning to reglaze the windows and paint the outside (likely with an oil based primer and paint – mostly for drying speed). For the inside I want to shellac since this is the original finish on all the trim and windows in the house.
I plan on putting new storm windows on too – Harvey Tru-Channels – once we’ve got the $$$. I think those should be good for our New England weather.
Any opinions on this – especially with regards to the shellac? How will this hold up with respect to UV and moisture?
Thanks!
-Bob
Replies
I have those storms, and they are top-notch, better quality than most replacement windows IMHO.
There are only a few retail outlets that carry them, and you can't get them directly from Harvey if you don't have a contractor account with them. I know 2 outlets in E Mass, if you need them drop me a line-
I use a 3/4lb cut as a first coat on bare wood followed by a light sanding and poly over that. Straight shellac does poorly in the presence of moisture (goes cloudy)
As far as refinishing all the windows in the house you might do better getting a part-time job and using the $ to buy new. IMHO, it's one of those projects that's easy to lose your gumption for.
YMMV
The awful thing is that beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the devil are fighting there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.
- Fyodor Dostoyevski
I'd like to avoid using poly, but I agree with what you are saying about shellac + water. Maybe a coat of wax wouldn't hurt. Poly is just not very repairable and doesn't jive with the rest of the house. I'm hoping that if the storms are really good and the outside paint job is good, then the moisture won't be too much of a problem. Maybe I'll poly the bottom of the lower sash.Another problem is that I plan on removing both sashes and doing this all flat on a table. I can't imagine I'll get this many coats of paint and shellac to dry in one day - how do I temporarily block up the window openings in a secure way without maring the inside or outside of the house with screw/nail holes? This must come up a lot for professionals who can't finish a job in 1 day. Any ideas?
To close in the window while you are working on the sashes, one method is to use plywood, long carriage bolts with washers and nuts, and one or two 2X4s as a brace. Cut the plywood to fit just inside the opening (hopefully all your openings or at least most are the same size) then drill a hole somewhere near the middle of the plywood for the carriage bolt to go through. On the inside cut the 2X4 to a length about the span of the window to the outsides of the casing. Drill a hole through the 2X4 that basically lines up with bolt, put the bolt through the 2X4 with a washer and nut. If wintertime, fill the space with some insulation.Two suggestions. Do everything on each window as you go - inside and out. And look at using CAB acrylic instead of shellac. Shellac does not stand up that well on windows. Sherwin-Williams makes a vinyl sealer and acrylic that has a much longer life. I used TransTint dyes to get the color I want.I made a long list of what to do when restoring windows for someone. You can use the search function to find it.
Bryan I really like that idea with the plywood and bolt. That means I don't have to finish this before the cold weather which would have been a tall order at this point in the summer. Thanks for the tip.I will do all parts of the sash when they are out, but I think I'll wait until I put the new storms in to repaint the sill.I guess that's another vote against shellac.
or, if you've already installed the tru-channels, live with just the storms up while you do the sashes on your own time.
You'd be surprised how long you can live with just a good storm window, I had the sashes in one of my bedrooms out for jan + feb last year, and the Harveys kept the wind out
> how do I temporarily block up the window openings in a secure way without maring the inside or outside of the house
How many windows of how many sizes? What I did long long ago when I was managing a 30 unit apartment building was get a spare set of sash for each of the three sizes of window. That way I could just swap out a set of sash whenever anybody had a broken window, and fix up the old ones later to become the new spares.
Don't even think about replacement windows. If you do a good job rehabbing your originals, you'll have better windows for less money, and a lot less disruption, mess, and down time.
-- J.S.
Shellac does not do well against moisture, at all.....it is also specifically warned against under polyurethane. Shellac is compatible with almost everything, except poly.
For interiors, when I'm looking for a varnish, I keep my eyes open for good quality alkyd varnishes, which I still see sometimes on the shelves here (don't always have enough advance warning to bring it in). I stock up when I find some.All the good qualities of varnish, but without the plasticky poly look. Or I thin poly down to make a wiping varnish (thinner, harder coats).....looks great, but would be too time consuming for doing sash.
The woodwork supply houses (Lee Valley, Garret Wade, etc.)are the most reliable source I know of for buying good quality, good looking, non-poly varnishes, but they're not cheap.cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, N.S
Shellac will eventually darken, orange peel and/or pimple up under UV, though it is easy to remove and refinish it.
Some folks looked at one of my 'distressed' shellac doors (exposed to a lot of UV), and wanted to emulate the look on a new door. When you actually live in an old house, these things make you laugh...
I'm planning to reglaze the windows and paint the outside...
remove the old glazing, clean thoroughly, and paint the sash/mullions/muntins with boiled linseed oil - let dry for a day or two - then glaze and paint -
I don't see any real problem with shellac for the inside finish, particularly since you will have storm windows - I'd keep it real thin where the where the sash slides against the stop and the wax is a good idea -
I didn't plan on doing anything to the sides of the sashes. The ride in some sort of thin sheet metal channel which I think contains the "ropes" for the spring loaded pulleys. I'd be wary of causing sticking. I may just apply some sort of penatrating oil to the sides. Maybe lightly wax over it. I've not seen any literature about how to treat the sides of the sashes. I'm a bit unsure on this point - the sashes are a bit loose so maybe some build-up would be good. Thanks for raising the point.As to the shellac - from what I've read it seems shellac has good UV resistance and won't darken. Also I plan on using dewaxed shellac - which I guess means I'll have to mix my own - not a big deal, I hope. This supposedly is the best possible moisture VAPOR barrier (even better than poly) but not a good liquid moisture barrier. I think vapor is probably more of an issue with windows than standing water. If I've got standing water on the inside of my windows, there are other problems.
boiled linseed oil seems a traditional treatment for naked sash parts -
if you have condensation that runs down the glass and collects along the bottom sash, shellac will not be satisfactory - with storm sash and reasonably well sealed windows, that shouldn't be a problem -
I renovated 36 sash for our 1916 library last year; hose and scrub brush, scrape, BLO all naked wood, reglaze as needed (they were in generally good shape), paint (had the pro do it), waxed all parts that slide against each other, re-hang with new ropes - - the finish on the window trim is shellac, and I redid the sills, and touched up places where I had to scrape 90 years of paint splatters - place looks great - I think you'll be proud and happy when you get done -
here's a thread about windows that you may enjoy browsing - 53734.1
"there's enough for everyone"
The issue of treating the sides is interesting. I'm not sure there is any definitive agreement. Wax (get a block like used for canning) seems to me the best choice. I have yet to see any that have been sealed with paint or shellac. If you use boiled linseed oil, you will probably want to cut it about 50/50 with turpentine to get better penetration. Paint it on with a natural bristle brush, let it soak in a bit, and then wipe with a clean cloth. You might have to repeat. This is good for the exterior wood too, if it is really dry (like the sill where it gets hit by the sun). But you need to use oil based paints over it or let it dry really well. On sashes, I would do this after applying the finish to the faces, to avoid contamination.The edge I am most curious about is the top edge of the upper (or outer) sash. I've never seen one treated, and I would think that swelling would get to be a problem.Shellac has weak UV protection as compared to synthetic finishes. Some people claim that shellac is a "good" UV protectant, but I think they must be comparing it to things like Tung oil or something. It breaks down fast enough that my sashes were faux grained rather than shellaced. Shellac will darken over time (I like the look). Mixing it is pretty easy, just add the flakes slowly to the alcohol, not all at once. You can even grind them up to make it go faster. Right before you apply the first coat, be sure to wipe the wood off with alcohol to remove any grease and dust. If there is already shellac present, you can clean with mineral spirits.But if you have big swings in temperature, the shellac will craze over time.