Replies

1. 
   Davo_ | Feb 03, 2002 07:45am | #1

   *
   J,

   It all boils down to Weather/Climate; Topography; Material availability/Cost; Ethnicity of original area inhabitants; and the abundance or lack thereof of local tradespeople.

   Weather dictates what works and what doesn't. Topograhy dictates design, such as whether basements are a good idea or bad. If the material you want to use will cost you an arm or a leg to have it shipped on site, chances are you will use something else. People of German origin built their homes in the manner they were accustomed to back "home." People of Swedish origin had their favorite methods/designs as did the Asians, etc. Normally, most who emigrated here to the USA tried to locate to areas that simulated their home country's environment, thus they built accordingly.

   If you have a lot of bricklayers and tilesetters, homes will have brick/ block, marble and tile in and around them. Bricklayers are'nt going to reside in areas where brick is not easily affordable/plentiful; or else they too would be out of work. Homes on the East Coast don't have near the number of homes that the West Coast does made from Red Cedar or Fir.

   Where's the majority of strawbale homes and adobe homes? Southwest, not Northeast, catch my drift?

   However, today, thanks in a large part to our interstate road system and trucking, homes all across the USA are looking more and more "homogenized."

   A track home in NC pretty much resmbles a track home in Pittsburgh, though in Pittsburgh it will have a basement and in NC it probably will not. The "norm" for "affordable" homes being built today is to brick the front and install vinyl or hardie plank siding to the sides. Asphalt shingles still get used the most, though the 3 tab is losing ground to the newer "dimensional" style. Of course in dry areas, or firestorm areas, metal and/or Spanish tile roofs are the norm.
   Most interiors are drywalled or rocked and veneered plaster. And to cut costs on brickwork, more and more stucco is being applied rather than the brick; partly I believe because more and more of the building trade workforce is being comprised of poeple from Mexico/Central America; and they tend to be highly skilled in stucco use rather than in bricklaying. The more I see lately, (Pittsburgh, Columbus, OH; Charlotte, NC; Ann Arbor, MI) the more they all tend to be the "same" rather than different.

   I agree it is neat to see different housing methods when driving through the country, though I see less and less, unless of course it is a custom designed house.

   In the end though, it all comes down to money. Look at the Vanderbilt Estate; its a castle in the woods. He had the money to build and furnish it any way he liked. But for most people, economics determined what materials they were going to use, and how they were going to use them.

   Davo

1. 
   jim_"crazy_legs"_blodg | Feb 03, 2002 07:10pm | #2

   *One of the most obvious regional differences I've noticed is roof designs. Here in the Pacific Northwest we commonly build with 24" overhangs to keep as much rain as possible off the side of the building. In real hot climates, I bet they use the same large overhangs to provide shade. Those same large overhangs would probably be a structural liability in regions that get a lot of snow loads.I'm guessing the average roof is steeper in snowy areas too, to help get that heavy stuff off the roof. Here, the most common pitch is 4, or 5/12 because that drains rain just fine. The same angle probably isn't the best for shedding snow. Then again, in more arid regions I bet there are far more flat roofs, because they don't deal with as much rain. I think what Davo said about ethnicity and cultural background plays a big role, too. Which helps explain why homes are becoming more homogenous, at the same time the people living here become more homogenous. Great topic j.

1. 
   Luka_ | Feb 03, 2002 07:36pm | #3

   *Who you calling homogenous ?Speak for yourself, pretty boy.b : )

1. 
   Michael_Rimoldi | Feb 03, 2002 07:50pm | #4

   *In Florida almost every home built recently is concrete block with stucco. Most apartment complexes are framed and sheeted with OSB (and very poorly I might add).Not many basements as they become indoor swimming pools very quickly.Rooves are usually shingle with a small percentage being barrel tile. I think I've only seen a handful of slate ones here?Mike

1. 
   jim_"crazy_legs"_blodg | Feb 03, 2002 07:56pm | #5

   *I could swear I remember reading that they outlawed osb sheathing down there after a big hurricane a few years ago, Michael. Not? Or maybe it was pneumatic nailing of osb? What about hip roofs? Do they use that design a lot to deflect strong winds? Man, I bet overhangs would be a problem with high winds, too.

2. 
   RonTeti | Feb 03, 2002 08:08pm | #6

   *Also guys lets not forget the natural causes for building requirements. In Calif we have a lot of codes directed at earthquake saftey due to both the earthquakes and the expansive soil as well as the heat. In Florida they have a lot of requirements for the hurricances. Jim , Washington has the 24" overhangs so you contractors can stay dry from all the rain when doing exterior work...:)No kidding when I was working at Puget Sound naval Shipyard in Bremerton I saw this guy at 5 am sleeping standing up leaning against a building on one of the piers the rain was just skimming the brim of his hardhat. He was even carrying his tool bag it was slung over his shoulder. :)

3. 
   Michael_Rimoldi | Feb 03, 2002 08:19pm | #7

   *Jim, Ya know, I thought they outlawed it as well but I keep seeing it or a similiar sheating that is not plywood being used? Maybe its not true OSB but its definitelt not ply either. Anyone with any idea of how winds affect a home build with a hip roof. OK, so I'm blowing my own horn as my house has hips but I was a meterology intern at a local TV weather station in college so I knew better. Gables are common for one reason. Cheap! They fact of the matter is a 100% hurricane proof home would cost way too much to build. Thats why the big thing is higher end homes now is the safe room. I'm sure you've seen them. Concrete reinforced part of the home in the interior where folks will ride out a storm. I guess its a take off the old basement scenes in the movies with a tornado in the midwest? My idea for hurricane survival is carry alot of insurance, stock up on supplies if the storm is close but won't hit directly, use the aux generator panel I installed if the power goes out but most of all, if its coming your way, get the he** outta there!Mike

4. 
   Mike_Willms | Feb 04, 2002 12:40am | #8

   *Mike,You might have seen aspenite used in the past. It was OSB's predecessor (sp?).Smaller chips of wood layed together in glue. Not very strong, you could literally punch thru it. Oriented strand board is just that, larger chips aranged in a way to make the panel stronger. From a distance they look similar.I'm in Alberta, home of thrifty builders. Vinyl is king. 99% of all roofs are trussed. Bone dry, so we all have basements. Virtually no block foundations, masons are a dying breed around here. Poured concrete walls.

5. 
   Don_Reinhard | Feb 04, 2002 02:00am | #9

   *Let's go back to 1947 in Miami. ALL construction that I saw was CBS (Concrete Block Stucco). That yr, we had at least 5 hurricanes. Frame just was not common. Not only that, there were poured, reinforced corners and poured, reinforced columns in the mid-points of long walls. A poured, reinforced 16" deep lintel. Hip rooves (Sp?) were common as grass, matter of fact, the norm. Barrel tile was also common. Must have figured the weight would hold the roof down. All electrical below a certain level had to be in conduit. My Dad built a house in 1950, when I was 14 yrs old. Codes had relaxed to point that corners were not poured, and lintels were poured into "U" blocks. Still a hip roof. That house still stands, 50 yrs later. Same roof,except for new tarpaper. I learned what tennios elbow was fromputting in tincaps on first layer of tarpaper - criteria was no greater distance than length of hammer head between them. Amazing what you do w/ free labor! Houses built after it in the 60's, when codes relaxed even more, blew away. Sisters' in-laws lost an entire house in Cutler Ridge to Andrew. It was frame. Not even enough left to identify as a house. House had gable ends. Priced a hurricane proof "Dade County" door for our tornado shelter here in Nawth Jawja. Over $700!! Found out that a prison door does the same thing for half the price. I've seen it go full circle (or maybe ellipse?).Great subject.Don

6. 
   Don_Reinhard | Feb 04, 2002 02:04am | #10

   *Someone from Milwaukee explain why they exclusively use concrete block basements there. I was told it waws because it was the home of some concrete block construction organization. Is it true? I've had several block basements in different sections of the USA, and every one has been a pain in the tush, from the standpoint of leakage, effluorescence, cracking, dampness, etc. Don

7. 
   Don_Papenburg | Feb 04, 2002 03:05am | #11

   *A lot of the houses in the LaSalle -Peru area I80 and I39 in Illinois were stuccoed or glassdashed in the early part of the century up till the 50s . I don't think you can get the glass any more . those were neat to look at on asunny day. Portland cement factory in LaSalle ,and many glass factories around the area at that time. Hardie factory opened last year there .

8. 
   jcallahan | Feb 04, 2002 03:35am | #12

   *I'm not sure homes being more and more homogenous is a good thing. Many if not all of the 1960's tract houses in and around the Houston area had broad over hangs and porches ........ helps keep the water runoff away from the house and shade the windows. Wonder if some of the newer ones will last as long as the mortgage. Mike R., why is a hip roof better in a hurricane?

9. 
   Michael_Rimoldi | Feb 04, 2002 07:25am | #13

   *jcallahan, A hip roof is better as there is no direct flat plane for the wind to blow upon. A gable end acts as a big sail and provides the most resistance to a wind blowing perpendicular to it. A hip roof in contrast has no flat plane aside from the roof surface itself. If the gable was not sheated properly and the wind is able to penetrate the surface, trouble grows rapidly. Before they enforced sheating of the gable ends, some guys would just cover the gable trusses with paper and siding. It would be watertight but not wind resistant. Now if the wind is able to enter the structure say through a non wind-loaded garage door, and the wind blows upwards from under the roof, all bets are off as either roof would come off of the structure as likley the same time. Hurricane clips on each of the trusses help but they are only rated to a certain uplift loading.Mike

10. 
    jcallahan | Feb 04, 2002 08:16am | #14

    *Thanks, Mike

11. 
    Boss_Hog | Feb 04, 2002 05:23pm | #15

    *On the OSB/Florida thing - I'm pretty sure they just outlawed OSB for roof use in Dade county. After hurricane Andrew, all sorts of engineers crawled around through the rubble and investigated why the houses came apart. I read some of those reports, and most of them said the plywood didn't have enough nails in them. Some plywood only had one nail at the top of the sheet and one at the bottom. As I recall, it didn't make any difference whether or not the roof sheathing was plywood or OSB. I think they just outlawed OSB as a "knee-jerk" reaction to the problem, even though there was no evidence to support their conclusion.

12. 
    jcallahan | Feb 04, 2002 07:00pm | #16

    *Boss, that makes me wonder about the building inspectors ........ why even have them. Saw much the same in the Houston metro area. Hurricane Alicia was a mimnimal hurricane but did an incredible amount of damage.

13. 
    xJohn_Sprung | Feb 04, 2002 11:20pm | #17

    *What I recall from the hurricane investigation was that in some cases, they'd find row after row of shiners -- the guy with the pneumatic gun had no way of knowing as he worked that he wasn't hitting the rafters. With a hammer you know for sure by feel. There's some work being done on giving power tools that kind of feedback mechanism. The fancy word for it is a haptic user interface.-- J.S.

14. 
    xJohn_Sprung | Feb 04, 2002 11:23pm | #18

    *> most who emigrated here to the USA tried to locate to areas that simulated their home country's environment, I know a lot of Russians here in Southern California who really really wanted to get *away* from their home country's environment. ;-)-- J.S.

15. 
    CaseyR_ | Feb 06, 2002 05:59am | #19

    *Don -Whaz "glassdashed"?

16. 
    Mike_Shultz | Feb 08, 2002 11:33pm | #20

    *Fine Homebuilding had a cover issue on the design defects uncovered after Andrew. (I can't remember the issue number but it caught my interest and I became a subcriber.) It discussed gables, overhangs, garage door, penentration of foreign objects driven into the wall sheathing by the wind, rows of staples that missed their mark, overdriving nails, etc. as causes for structural failure in Andrew. It is the finest article that I have read regarding structural issues with wind.

17. 
    BarryO_ | Feb 09, 2002 01:37am | #21

    *> Someone from Milwaukee explain why they exclusively use concrete block basements there. I was told it waws because it was the home of some concrete block construction organization. Is it true? I've had several block basements in different sections of the USA, and every one has been a pain in the tush, from the standpoint of leakage, effluorescence, cracking, dampness, etc. Or more generally, WHY are any block foundations built anymore? Poured are vastly superior, concrete form "technology" has advanced to where it's a straightforward thing to do, block foundations take alot longer to do, and they've got to cost a ton more in labor charges.

18. 
    ken_hill | Feb 09, 2002 02:45am | #22

    *JS- 'haptic user interface' I'm thankful to you today for the opportunity to pull out the old Webster's! I do very much enjoy words. Haptic- 1: Relating to or based on the sense of touch 2: Characterized by a predilection for the sense of touch. Oh, yeah, I'll be using THAT word a lot now! Cheers, Ken.

19. 
    Johnnie_Browne | Feb 09, 2002 05:12am | #23

    *Around here, everything is slab on grade, no basements, no gravel under slab. High pitch 8/12+ hip roofs, red brick tutor with color stutco around doorway/porch.

20. 
    Brian_Smith | Feb 09, 2002 07:39am | #24

    *FHB December 1992/January 1993 - #78http://www.taunton.com/store/pages/fh_toc_078.aspbelieve inspectors found that the OSB was stapled, even t-nailed. it gets really interesting when you go far west (hawaii) or, better put, when the far west comes to the mainland. came across a home once owned by a hawaiian. single panel walls with electrical receptacles in the floor. don't remember what they did for switches. a trip to a local oriental gardens that feature structures (Descanso Gardens) show the use of paper for walls, a la japan. if the wind's going to blow it down no matter what you do, build it cheap, evacuate, and rebuild it cheap.brian

21. 
    Brian_Smith | Feb 09, 2002 07:44am | #25

    *ps.can't wait to see the new materials available and affect on architecture once the boys in the labs get enough goats to milk and start mass-producing structural spider webs :-)brian

2. 
   jcallahan | Feb 09, 2002 07:44am | #26

   *
   I was in St. Paul, Mn this past week and I've never seen more stucco and block foundations in my life. I'm curious as to regional differences around the country (styles, siding, foundations, roofing etc) and the how and why. TIA