I have a situation where vapor barrier must be placed under a 105-year old house built on brick and mortar piers. I would like to emphasize that the crawl space is totally open to the wind, blowing debris, and homeless critters of all species. There is only 18-inches of clearance in the crawl space and the ground is a mine field of debris, roots and all manner of objects, like old asbestoes shingles!, that will quickly puncture normal 6-mil poly. And, oh yeah, in the spring there is frequently standing water under the house. The floor of the house has been insulated for the first time in its life and heating duct now runs through the crawl space. In the winter the air in the ducts is chilled by the outside air, drastically reducing heating efficiency. The plan is to enclose the space and apply vapor barrier over the ground. We do realize the importance of ventilation, and plan to install vents that can be opened and closed at will. Problem is that 6-mil poly will be puntured and torn when it is spread out and when ever anyone crawls on it. What we need here is a reinforced vapor barrier that will resist puncture and tearing. So here comes the question.
Has anyone found a company that manufactures/supplies reinforced plastic sheeting that will survive this crawl space?
Replies
I've seen some plastic sheeting used to cover nursery greenhouses that's laminated to an open mesh fabric. The fabric doesn't prevent small punctures, but will prevent cuts and tears.
Another option would be to put down a layer of landscape fabric first, as a cushion for the plastic.
Look into Tu-tuff. Sto-Cote Products,
Inc. (PO Drawer 310, Richmond, IL 60071, 800-435-2621)
I don't think they have a website.
This outfit sells the stuff:
http://www.energyfederation.org/consumer/default.php/manufacturers_id/97/page/1/sort/1a
Thanx for all the good suggestions, Guys. Wish I had thougt of a protective layer before applying the barrier.
In classic fashion, I wrote to Breaktime before searching old issues of FHB. Found an article by Larry Janesky in #153 that addresses this issue. Called Basement Systems and Sto-Cote (you're right, no web site and no one answers the phone. Leave a message and they'll call back.). Depending upon pricing, this could be a job for the pros. Getting too old to be crawling around in the mud.
Right next to the 6mil poly at my big box (Menards) is some 6mil fiber reinforced plastic ("Diamond" something) that I used on an extensive crawl space floor. New construction so no debris, but there is an occasional root left over from excavation and backfill, I've run electrical cable, DWV, etc in there, crawling in and around more times than I want to remember, and there are a few small holes, mostly from my boot lace hooks, but they don't rip or get bigger because the fiber stops them.
Big help in my case (and I would recommend this as definately worth the time and $):
Three permanently wired light sockets at strategic places, switched by the hatch into the CS and GF protected...no dragging a light and extentsion cord in there.
To get the debri out, hire some energetic kids and pay them by the pound of stuff they get out.
Also, a suggestion for how to deal with the enclosure aspect....make your own non-structural insulated panels out of .60 treated 2X6 acting as a frame around 4" of rigid extruded and sheathed on the outside with 1/2' .60 treated plywood like what they use for wood foundations. Make up the panels, dig them down 16 - 20", and toe-screw them together. If you want to seal that crawl space up (recommended) caulk the panels at thier seams and run the VB up to thier tops.
About that water standing under there in the spring...where does it come from? If there's a drainage pattern that runs water under the house, you'll need to do something about that. Gutters and downspouts? Regrade to slope away from the CS after you finish with VB and enclosure? Probably only stands in the spring because once the surface thaws the water soaks in. Bad deal.
Edited 2/26/2004 9:35:02 AM ET by johnnyd
Great ideas, Johnnyd. We live on the Eastern Shore of Maryland. Twelve feet above sea level, but some times sea level is above us. Ground is mostly clay. When the spring rains come, water collects every where and takes its sweet ol' time about draining off. Most of the water under the house just percolates up. Minor runoff.
Many homes in this area were closed off with that galvanized panel stuff that looks like block, then the floor joists rotted out. My home was spared because it was left open all these years so the joists never got waterlogged.
Interesting building problems out here. Biggest problem (different topic, kind of) is that the Chesapeake Bay separated this area from the mainland for many years. AS a result, homes here were built and repaired with whatever was available. Some of the studs in my house--balloon construction--are rafters that washed down the Susquahanna during the Johnstown flood back at the turn of the century.
Thanx for the ideas.
I have seen 4'x8' sheets of 'Thermoply' used as a vapor, radiant, fiberglass retention sheet. This stuff is basically cardboard faced front and back with foil. The foil has a very low perm rating. These were installed with plastic cap nails used for tar paper. The joints were sealed with a good quality, contractors grade, foil tape. These sheets are pretty tough when compared to poly.
http://www.ludlowcp.com/pages/thermoply.html
similar situation, but with out all the trash..get a bunch of blue tarps when Harbor Freight has en on sale..over lap the seams and tape them with shipping tape. Same stuff as highdollar housewrap tape...dollar store here have it 2 rolls for a buck Vs. 10.25 a roll at Lowes.
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