Replies

1. 
   YesMaam27577 | Jul 12, 2009 02:03am | #1

   As for the removal -- you need to get on your back with a flashlight, and find out what the installer did. Then you need to undo it.

   Note that the installer might have used some sort of adhesive, in which case you need to pray (Hard!) before attempting removal.

   The sink -- whatever shape it is -- should have a paper template. If you have down-cut blades for your saber saw, tape the template to the top of the countertop. If not, turn the countertop AND THE TEMPLATE upside-down, and tape the template to the underside. Then just have at it.

   Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.
1. 
   ms | Jul 12, 2009 02:09am | #2

   Thanks for the info on the down-cut blades. Already got 'em.
   While on-site I had the flashlight out and thought if it was glue that I would see some squeeze out somewhere in over 18ft of counter, but didn't.
   Mark

1. 
   JTC1 | Jul 12, 2009 02:23am | #4

   You may be right --- counter tops fabricated on site with screws going down from the top.

   I would slip a thin putty knife under the counter top and start sliding along until I found a fastener or glue.

   If fastened from the top -- I would locate the fasteners with a magnet (probably piffin screws) - dig through the laminate with an old chisel and attempt to unscrew them.  If unscrewing did not work -- chisel out a hole big enough to grip the heads with ViseGrips - turn them out that way.

   I would not resort to brute force - "I gotta pretty good crack goin', gimme the big bar!" Bad things always happen......

   Jim 

   .

    Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.

1. 
   ms | Jul 12, 2009 02:31am | #6

   Thanks Jim. Good info on looking for the fasteners under the laminate and good advice on leaving the brute force at home!
   Mark

1. 
   Snort | Jul 12, 2009 02:41am | #7

   I've never cared for the down tooth blades... relax a little, and the jig saw's all over the place. Fine toothed or metal blades from the top are what I like.http://www.tvwsolar.com

   We'll have a kid

   Or maybe we'll rent one

   He's got to be straight

   We don't want a bent one

   He'll drink his baby brew

   From a big brass cup

   Someday he may be president

   If things loosen up

2. 
   Sphere | Jul 12, 2009 02:51am | #8

   One thing I found about the down toothers, set the orbit on the jiggy saw at zero, cuts a LOT better.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations

   "If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt

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3. 
   Snort | Jul 12, 2009 03:43am | #9

   If you're using any orbit on a laminate, aren't you kinda asking for it, anyhow?http://www.tvwsolar.com

   We'll have a kid

   Or maybe we'll rent one

   He's got to be straight

   We don't want a bent one

   He'll drink his baby brew

   From a big brass cup

   Someday he may be president

   If things loosen up

4. 
   Sphere | Jul 12, 2009 03:47am | #10

   Hmmmm. I always taped and never looked if I had orbit on or not..LOL My barrel grip has 3 settings, I rarely move it.  And have not cut out a sink in 6 yrs.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations

   "If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt

   View Image

5. 
   dedhed6b | Jul 12, 2009 03:53am | #11

   How about a rare earth magnet to locate fasteners under the laminate or in the cabinet walls."Shawdow boxing the appoclipse and wandering the land"
   Wier/Barlow

6. 
   ms | Jul 12, 2009 04:42am | #12

   Good one, thanks!
   Mark

2. 
   arcticcat | Jul 12, 2009 02:19am | #3

   Mark, Around here, most counters installed in the 80's were built as you described - plywood nailed and maybe even glued to the edges of the cabs. 

    I would try to find a corner or spot on the edge where you could gently insert a flat bar and start prying the old counters up.  A sawzall with a metal cutting blade might help with the nails close to the edges.  Tops may need to be cut into sections in order to remove.  A circular saw with its depth set to the countertop thickness will take care of this.

   As far as a kidney-shaped sink, it should come with a template, either inside the box, or printed on the box itself.  If  it doesn't, and the sink is a symetrical shape, just turn the sink upside down and trace it onto the top, moving your actual cut line inward the appropriate amount to allow for the flange.  If it's not symetrical, you can trace the rim of the sink on the bottom of the countertop, move your layout lines inward and cut from the bottom.

   Probably too late now, but did the  lumberyard catch that the cabinets were not standard sizes?  I've went to install tops several times and the countertop depths didn't jive with the cabinets.

   Mike

1. 
   ms | Jul 12, 2009 02:29am | #5

   Thanks Mike. Yes the lumberyard did catch the over-sized cabs. I was thinking the same thing. Glad to know that tops were made as I described in the first post and that gives me a little more to go on. There is a manufacturer's sink template, I was concerned about chip out from the skill saw. The last one I did, I went from the top, used blue making tape, down-tooth blades and in one area the chip out was close to being visible!
   Thanks for taking the time to reply.
   Mark

1. 
   [email protected] | Jul 13, 2009 09:33pm | #23

   You can transfer the manufacturer's template to 1/4-inch mdf, to make a router template. 

   The hole in the mdf is easy to clean up with a bit of sand paper, and you can check it against the sink to be sure the cutout is the right size, and you won't have problems. 

   You then attach the template with double sided carpet tape, and make the cut out with a down shear straight bit with a top bearing added.  Absolutely no chips.   

   You do have to be carefull of the cutout falling down in at the end.  I usually just screw some 1x2, over 1/4-inch mdf scraps, into the cutout from above as I finish the cut on each side, to support it, when the final side is cut.  Taping, a bit of the scrap 1/4-inch mdf to the base plate of the router helps keep it from tipping during the cut. 

1. 
   ms | Jul 14, 2009 01:02am | #24

   Jigs,
   Thanks. Great idea with making a pattern!
   And a big thanks to ALL for the brainstorming and good suggestions!
   Mark

3. 
   Dave45 | Jul 12, 2009 05:41am | #13

   It's an even money bet that the countertops are glued down to the cabinets. The cabs might also be veneered particle board. Very common in the 80's and a gin-u-wine SOB to get apart!!!

1. 
   KenHill3 | Jul 12, 2009 06:04am | #14

   I have glued down tops, I have also screwed them down from the top. I have wrestled some tops big time just to get them off and damaged the cabs in the process.I cringe to think of the person who has to deal with the tops I glued and screwed down.I do my tops differently now.I use Simpson angle brackets from below. On most of the tops I have done this way, the next guy will be able to unscrew and then slide the top out, resurface if wanted or use as template.The Woodshed Tavern Backroom

   The Topics Too Hot For Taunton's Breaktime Forum Tavern

1. 
   ms | Jul 12, 2009 03:23pm | #16

   Thanks Ken. By the looks of the counters I have I'm thinking you were in Vermont in the early 80s! I like your new method.
   Mark

2. 
   ms | Jul 12, 2009 03:20pm | #15

   Thanks Dave.Solid pine, no particle board. S-O-B DEFINITELY!

4. 
   Piffin | Jul 12, 2009 05:10pm | #17

   If site vuilt, you might be right. They could be glued down with const adhesive too.

   I'd start with a 12" metal cutting sawsall blade and shims. Once you get started and start driving a shim a little more as you cut, it gets easier to see what you are doing. Another option is the universal offset blade on the multimaster. It will cut nails and screws.

   The sink should have come with a template. Position, trace, and cut from the backside with a jigsaw blade. Drill a 3/8" hole first to fit the blade in. Support the cuttout so it does not fall to the floor and chip out the surface as you are almost finished with the cut.

    

    

   Welcome to the
   Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
    where ...
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1. 
   ms | Jul 13, 2009 12:53am | #19

   Thanks for the info. I think the start will be the hardest & then as you suggested put in shims between the cab & counter.
   Yup, there is a template. My latent dyslexia always kicks in when trying to imagine the counter/sink/template upside down! Probably more worried about screwing up than anything else.
   Mark

5. 
   alwaysoverbudget | Jul 12, 2009 07:56pm | #18

   i used to glue and nail countertops on like crazy,i don't think you could get one off without tearing up something. still probably nail to much,but no glue.

   any chance you could cut the overhang off and lay the new top over it?it would be 3/4"higher ?a little trim pc on the front edge.

   for the sink cutout i use the downcut blades,but if your worried about tearout could you make a wood template and then use a router bit?

   the older i get ,

   the more people tick me off

1. 
   ms | Jul 13, 2009 12:57am | #20

   Thanks. Keeping the existing counter and laying the new one on top could work. Hmmm.....I need to sleep on that!
   Down cut blades from the top of the counter?
   Mark

1. 
   alwaysoverbudget | Jul 13, 2009 06:29am | #22

   i use down cut sabre saw blades,from the top. usally a stainless  or cast iron drop in sink so it covers everything.

   i have overlayed several tops,the difference being was i was also appling formica on site.

   i lay a 1/2 mdf or particle board over the old top,screw it down,fill the screw holes with a little bondo and i'm ready to go. the front edge band ends up 1/2 wider but who cares.the older i get ,

   the more people tick me off

6. 
   Biff_Loman | Jul 13, 2009 04:02am | #21

   FYI. . . Lacquer thinner will melt cured contact cement. Turns it back into goop.

   In case that's your situation.