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Repair or replace these window frames?

mackzully | Posted in General Discussion on August 19, 2008 05:14am

I’ve finally started on the last legs of the structural work on the house, masonry makes everything seem to take 10x longer than planned. I cut out the window frames on the second floor which much to my chagrin were only held in by four nails and copious caulk. Once I’ve got the brickwork repaired around the openings I have to make a decision to either repair the existing frames and prep them to take new windows or scrap them entirely and build new frames.

The frames appear to be original to the house (1892) though they have finger jointed stops and trim, and the scrollwork above the windows is actually a piece of plywood nailed onto the frame, so I’m not exactly sure of their provenance. All the other houses on the street have similar scrollwork above the windows, so unless the entire street got a package deal on window frames, I’m going to assume they’re original. Over all they are not in bad shape. The wood is definitely dry and weathered, and the wooden sills would need to be replaced but overall they’re surprisingly intact for something so old and exposed.

The good thing about saving them is 1) they’re the right size! (important in a crooked house) and 2) have some nice detailing that I’m not sure I could successfully replicate. But although they appear to be in good shape, they are very dry and brittle, and I’m worried that once I get into them I’m going to find all sorts of nast that I’ll have to deal with…

On the other hand, if I replace them, I won’t be using similar wood, and I probably won’t be able to match the styling, which may or may not be important, but it’d be a nice feature. And to boot, I’m not exactly 100% in getting new stuff to fit as nicely as the original. The frames will be getting stuffed with new windows, so they’re doing little more than providing a secure fastening substrate for the new windows.

So repair or replace?

Z

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  1. User avater
    Sphere | Aug 19, 2008 05:58pm | #1

    I'd hose'm down, burn the paint off, Abatron Liquid epoxy soak the punky stuff, Abatron Wood-Epox fill any missing hunks, prime, caulk/spot fill and paint em up again.

    Should be able to knock out 2-3 a day once ya get set up and groovin.

    Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

    Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations

    You gonna play that thing?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0

    1. mackzully | Aug 19, 2008 06:29pm | #2

      Any recommedations for surface preparation other than to consolidate the bad spots with epoxy then prime with a good latex primer (Ben Moore in my case)? I knew someone who used tung oil on all the stripped exterior trim of their Victorian before painting, but then again I think they were using oil based paints....Z

      1. User avater
        Sphere | Aug 19, 2008 06:44pm | #3

        I've done a few experiments, almost all with good sucess depending on the severity of weathering.

        Watered down Titebond glue (TB2 or TB3, exterior glue).

        Titebond ( thinned) with Durhams Rock Hard water putty as a thickener.

        And Elmers and Minwax rotted wood hardner, seems these are basically thinned glue, with a high price..go figgure.  I recently had a very good reason to get Abatron for a job, and fell in love with the liquid consolidater, it's good stuff for really soaking in.

        West Systems is good stuff, but most of my restorations lately have not required EXTENSIVE repairs, if they do , I can make a new sash faster and better than a questionable repair..so it's a judgement call between labor and restore, or make from scratch..if a window is more epoxy than wood, I'll build new.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

        Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations

        You gonna play that thing?

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0

        1. mackzully | Aug 19, 2008 08:05pm | #4

          Excellent information! I'll pick up some titebond next trip through the HomeyD. How much do you cut the TB?Z

          Edited 8/19/2008 1:07 pm ET by mackzully

          1. User avater
            Sphere | Aug 19, 2008 08:48pm | #5

            Never actually measured it, just thin enough to soak in good, I use an acid brush, or cheap "chip" brushes for larger areas.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

            Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations

            You gonna play that thing?

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0

      2. Billy | Aug 20, 2008 04:59am | #6

        I would prime with a penetrating oil primer (Ben Moore) and then paint with latex.

        Nice windows.

        Billy

  2. frenchy | Aug 20, 2008 12:18pm | #7

    mackzully

      Looking at just the frame I could replicate those in much less time than I could strip and patch them back together.. the scroll work can be purchased from  companies like Enkenbols or many other such places.

      Patching punky wood really isn't a good long term solution, while it's often done it really won't last as long as the originals. (well the repairs might but the rest won't) 

     I like decay resistant wood so I'd make the frames out of white oak.   The trick with using white oak is not to use anything but stainless steel fasteners to prevent a reaction from the tannic acids in the wood with steel..

    If you have only a couple of windows to replace go ahead and buy it from a lumberyard.   If there are a lot of windows go find a saw mill and buy it from them. the cost differance is amazing.. Lumberyards will charge around $5.00 or six dollars a bd.ft.  and the local sawmill typically gets around 80 cents. a bd.ft.

    1. mackzully | Aug 20, 2008 05:17pm | #8

      Frenchy-
      I'd love to find a good source of wood in the city, but I'm fairly limited both in time and energy finding places with the right wood. On the back of the house I made frames with KD fir (I think?) but back primed everything with an oil based primer. Probably not the best choice, but what the hell. Outside of white oak is there another perhaps more easily found wood that would be suitable?The only thing I'm going to be saving from these windows will be the frames, so that I can put in new Loewen windows and have something to fasten the new windows to... If you were to build the frame, how would you do it? Mitered corners like the old frames, or pocket screw construction?? I've got five window frames to build/restore and two door frames...Thanks,
      Z

      1. frenchy | Aug 21, 2008 12:26am | #9

        mackully,

           What city?  White oak is one of the more common hardwoods across much of America.. but hey, fir, pine, any wood will be ok if it's well sealed. The real advantage of white oak is for those times when painting is delayed. White oak will put off decay much longer.

          It depends on the time crunch as to how I'd build the frames.  If in a real time crunch I'd simply cut two sides and a top and bottom. I'd set the bottom at a 15 degree bevel to let rain drain off.  Titebond 111 would glue everything  and then I'd simply screw into the horizontal boards (careful to predrill for screws)

        I'm guessing here just looking at the size of stuff but I think screws 4 inches long would be about the right length.  Right thru the sides and into the horizontals..

        If you have a little more time you might take a router and cut a dado in the side pieces for better support of the horizontal boards.  Don't have a router?  Heck you can do a decent job with a sharp chisel and care..

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