I need to replace 4 large windows in our great room and dining area. Current windows are single pane aluminum windows that are a significant energy cost. Two windows are 95×48 with a 95×24 slider mulled to the bottom half. The other two monsters are 119×48 with a 119×24 slider mulled to the bottom.
I started by pricing vinyl replacements as the baseline. I was not crazy about the size of the frame on the interior as these are view windows overlooking vineyards. Next, I looked at Replacement By Anderson (Fibrex frames). The Fibrex offers a smaller frame size with wood veneer options on the interior. I was BLOWN AWAY by the cost! Over 3x the cost of vinyl….is this true? Further, the Anderson guy told me that vinyl windows of the size I’m looking to replace are virtually guaranteed to fail due to the size of the glass space, and the thermal properties of vinyl frames.
My questions are…is this Fibrex material truly that much more expensive?
Can someone comment on the risks of vinyl window failure for large windows?
Is there other more economic alternatives that are not 3x the cost of the Vinyl frames?
At the end of the day, I’ll pay the premium price if the vinyl will truly fail in this configuration. At this point, I need more information to figure out what kind of budget I need before it gets cold again.
Any insight would be appreciated !!
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How about losing some glass footage by framing in smaller windows. Don"t forget even the best windows are only rated R3 or 4 at best. The smaller windows cost a lot less and can be installed by you without any help.
I know it was the case a few years ago that the vinyl windows were not reommend even by the vinyl maufacturers for large windows. As I remember, the Vnl frame had a lot of expansion/contraction vs the glass so they stressed themselves out of shape and often developed seal failures.
Now
There are vinyl windows and there are vinyl windows. There is vinyl window manufacturer neaar hear whose top of the line product is in the same price range as Andersens. That leads me to want to assume that your vinyl quote is for a cheaper grade of produt. The advances in design for them would likely not be included in a bottom priced unit. Study the warrantee before spending your buks.
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Vinyl is cheap and is not very stiff so it would be difficult to produce large size windows. I have no personal experience with them but I'd want to see some large ones in real life if I was considering a purchase.
On the other hand, Andersen is a premium brand, one of a number of high quality manufacturers. Years ago in the IT world (before they called it IT) there was an expression in business that no one ever got fired for buying IBM, meaning that it had such quality that no one could be faulted for making a bad choice by going with them. Andersen and some others are somewhat the same with regard to windows.
Even though there will be significant quality differences between vinyl and Andersens, are you sure your comparison is a fair one? Andersens probably have low-e glass which is well worth the money especially for such a large expanse of glass. The vinyl window may have been priced without low-e glass. There will be differences in the hardware and weatherstripping, too.
Were you quoted list price for the Andersens? About every month or so lumberyards (not big box stores, though) participate in a Truckload Sale, where if you order sufficiently in advance and wait for the monthly truck you get something like 30% off.
With the single pane aluminum framed windows you have now you'll reap significant energy savings by this project so keep that in mind when weighing the cost.
"Were you quoted list price for the Andersens? About every month or so lumberyards (not big box stores, though) participate in a Truckload Sale, where if you order sufficiently in advance and wait for the monthly truck you get something like 30% off."He is talking about Renewal by Andersen.They ain't sold at a lumberyard.Only through francised dealer/installers.
I can get Renewals through my lumberyard. They are further up on the food chain than the average yard though. A stocking dealeer, I think is the name
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Do you actually open the large windows? If not, fixed pain windows can be much cheaper. Each year I'll install a handful of fixed pain windows, usually in the larger sizes. Prices are around $3/square foot for the glass and my time to make the frame. Depending on the style of your other windows and style of trim, the final product could actually be more than a factory unit.
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Why do the windows need to be replaced?
Energy cost is out of this world. The windows occupy a vaulted ceiling area. The radiant cold in the winter time is just awful. Thankfully we live in a moderate climate where the coldest days are in the 40s. However we have young kids and the heater runs almost all the time and can only maintain a low 60s temp in this area.
The single pane glass conducts a tremendous amount of heat and cold. We installed double pane in the master and it made a big difference. I've put off the replacement long enough and now its time to figure out the right solution.
In some cases it's effective to install a second layer of glass. You can get glass (or acrylic) made up to fit, in an aluminum frame like for a screen. Can fit either on the inside or the outside. Inside it may fog (though my MIL in Fargo has windows like this and no major fogging problems). Outside there'd be no fog.The fit can be either to the full window opening (like a conventional storm) or to fit inside the sash frame. If fit inside the sash frame it doesn't interfere with opening the window.Keep in mind that often the major problem is air leakage through the sash seals or (surprisingly) through the gap between window frame and rough framing members. Pull off the inside trim and use foam backer rod, stuffed fiberglass, and low expansion foam to seal the gap betwen window frame and rough framing. Check the seals on the sashes and repair/replace as needed.
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Perhaps the greatest benefit of fiberglass frames on large windows is that they have a rate of thermal expansion very close to that of the glazing, thus minimizing stress on the seals. I've used Fibertec with success. Their quality is very good, prices not unreasonable (and they'll dicker a bit), and they'll make them up in any size you need in increments of a millimeter. Lead time can be a bit long, and shipping from Ontario can hurt.
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Ted, Thanks, I'm going to check them out. This is the other kind of options I was looking for.
Kevin
Do what Dan suggested.
I've replaced fogged insulated glass with plain panes, you already have a pane in place.
All I did was add a strip of EPDM rubber to the Alum frame on the inside, put a new pane against that, and screwed on wood retainers.
here is an example, you have a 1" air space then also, and can pull the inside pane after 5-10 years for cleaning if needed. just like the old fashioned strom windows.
Edit- oops, bad pix, will take another later, need to leave the house right now.
Edited 10/8/2006 10:55 am ET by junkhound
Yeah, I'm gonna have to look into this. Never consider this as an option until you guys brought it up. We live in a very moderate climate so I don't need the highest performance windows, but rather the extra piece of glass to prevent the radiation of heat/cold from the outside.
thanks for the idea !!
There are installers who specailize in interior storm panels too.Your coldest weather sounds like my summer nights when we leave the windows open
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