Replies

1. 
   djmarro | Oct 08, 2002 07:37pm | #1

   This is almost as controversial as trucks. I have had good luck with Andersen windows. Well made product, great product support, at least in this area (New England). I don't have any experience with Pella so I can't say whether they are good or not. To me, good installation is all important. Good luck.

                                                                          Dana

                                                                          Salmon Falls Housewrights

                             

2. 
   RW | Oct 09, 2002 03:58am | #2

   Do your research on the installer too. There's a lot of stupid stuff that seems to be commonplace. Maybe check with a local builders group and ask for the guy that started in 1940, or at least someone who focuses on window & door installs. If you get a bid and it sounds ridiculously low, walk. But good for you that you had the foresight to realise that vinyl is low on the quality spectrum.

   I'm not a fan of Pella. The thing they do best is marketing. Making windows is down on the list farther. You live in Chicago, so you're close enough to Wisconsin that someone around probably carries Kolbe&Kolbe. They have my vote for best made. Attention to detail is evident, and their factory isn't all machines and a couple of guys reading computers. Everything is touched by hand and fine tuned by hand. And they're still cheaper than a Pella. They're on the web too, if you can't find anyone offhand. Anderson doesn't make a bad unit either, and Marvin Integrity is a pretty close second to K&K, IMHO. Why don't I like Pella? Glazing seeping out around the glass, uneven joints, (end grain 1/8" longer than the rest of the sash, and ignored) I've had screens that were assembled and shipped crooked, cladding that was flapping around in the wind . . . but boy, ask anyone who doesn't know squat about what to look for in a window and your average Joe think's Pellas the thing. You spend 2 grand, that's $200 of window and $1800 of sales pitch.

3. 
   Davo304 | Oct 09, 2002 09:48am | #3

   Hi Mark.

   You're not gonna appreciate this remark, but it appears that neither you or RWOriginals know squat about vinyl replacement windows.

   Vinyl is not "low on the quality spectrum" anymore. Not all brands are the same in quality, but there certainly are quality built vinyl windows out there! As for insulation, other than having your contractor/installer insulate the cavity opening where applicable, the only insulative values that a window itself can offer you is the airspace between window panes (assuming its a thermopane window...which you should opt for ),  the type of glass (such as a low E) and good quality weatherstripping seals around the panes. Well, a vinyl window  has all of these features, and, unlike a wood framed window unit, a vinyl unit also has "extrusions" built into its vinyl framework. These "extrusions" are internal airspaces that help to further insulate your unit from sound, heat and cold.

   There are many quality vinyl units out on the market today. There are also some dogs. Perhaps all you've seen so far are the dogs. My advice is to keep looking. Vinyl units can be easily made to fit whatever opening size you need, they tend to cost much less,  they perform (in many cases) better than wood frame units, and they won't warp or bind due to humidity changes. Better yet, vinyl windows are maintenance free ( no paintin/scraping or reglazing needed).

   One last comment...Last year a good carpenter friend of mine was visiting Las Vegas. He happened upon a new upscale housing subdivision and made a passing remark to an architect. He said " Wow, these are nice homes, but why the cheap vinyl windows?" to which the architect replied "Buddy these are anything but cheap. We found that vinyl windows in this type of climate far outlasts your Andersons, Pellas, and whatnots."  I have never heard anyone building out west to either substantiate this remark or dispute it. Would be interesting to get some more feeback on this.

   Davo.

1. 
   ahneedhelp | Oct 09, 2002 05:12pm | #4

   In our area Anderson seems to do well (in terms of sales/service.)

   Pella, when ordering the architectural series, has had mixed reviews due to what appears to be a frequent turnover with the sales rep.

   There is a reputable builer/developer in our are that used Weathershield quite a bit but lately I noticed Andersons on a house they just completed.

   I have a friend who just completed installing Pella Architectural Series casements in the brick mansion he's been renovating.

   He likes the windows but not happy w/ his dealings with the sales rep.

   (After reading many of Fred Lugano's posts and articles, I believe there is too much money being spent on windows for all the claims made on insulation value and fancy engineering.)

   Alan

   in southwest Virginia

2. 
   RW | Oct 10, 2002 02:39am | #5

   I'll agree with you to some extent: I haven't seen any yet that are of any quality. Around here, the only people using them are the fly by night siding installers who see window replacements as a way to gouge another buck out of someone. (Not a blanket statement on all siding companies . . . ) There isn't a builder in town that would even consider them as a realistic option. And I actually do know squat about windows. Better than half of our business is from window and door work.

4. 
   GCourter | Oct 10, 2002 03:10am | #6

   If you are interested in the insulation value (U factor) of your windows check out my web site http://www.vinylwindows-usa-east.com, are casements carry a U factor of .38 and if you add low e it drops to .28.

5. 
   Piffin | Oct 10, 2002 03:16am | #7

   Let's suppose that you are shopping for a car.

   You find a Yugo that has all the finer features that a Mercedes has. Leather deats, nice radio, power this and that, maybe even special tires. And the Yugo costs almost as much as the Mercededs.

   Would you buy it??

   That's what you get when you buy Pella. Lots of glitz and toys the seem great in the showroom. I've used Pellas on a couple jobs and know of a coupl eother jobs with Pellas. List of agravations a mile long.

   I've also used Andersons, Marvins, Weathershields, and Norco. Any of these might have an occasional need but overall the satisfaction is good. The only time I use Pella now is if the owner and architect are ready to run me off if I don't use them. They'll get you by but after owniung them a couple years, you won't be bragging to friends about them anymore.

   .

   Excellence is its own reward!

6. 
   archyII | Oct 10, 2002 03:35am | #8

   Do not use Marvin.  I had spec'd Anderson and the contractor wanted to use Marvin (had an account with the yard that sold Marvin).  My past experience was that Marvin  was a good window.  Three - two unit double hung were installed and 3 casements.  When you tilt out the double hung unit to be cleaned it tears the weather stripping and there is no provision for extension jambs or sills.  The Marvin windows also had a lot of glazing compound/glue squeezed out on the interior glass.  The bottom line from my experience is that Marvin windows are a real pain.  The Anderson windows that I installed in my last house worked great and there was a dado in the frame to accept a rabbeted jamb/sill extension.  In Chicago the contractors seem to want to use pella  due to the local support. Not necessarily a recommendation.

7. 
   BowBear | Oct 10, 2002 05:08pm | #9

   As a DIY I have had very good experience with Loewen Windows. They make a good product and have been helpful with their advice. (check their web site)

   An ex-boat builder treading water!
8. 
   missoulaman | Oct 14, 2002 06:40pm | #10

   While we are on the subject of casements, has anyone used a product to finish the interior of wood casements to give them a natural wood finish rather than paint?  I seem to recall a product called clearcoat mentioned in previous breaktimes but can't find a mention of it using the search engine.  What I want to do is put a good protective finsih the intior of new casements but not paint them. 

   CS

1. 
   RW | Oct 14, 2002 11:37pm | #11

   Couple of options. Lacquer is very common, and is fast and easy to apply if you've got the spray bug (probably why it's so common). If you're concerned with the abuse level they get, poly is another choice, and you can brush that on or buy it in an aerosol can and do ten coats in one day. You can also get spar varnish in aerosol if you're concerned with condensation or UV coming through. All of them are acceptable, all of them are clear (or mostly - the spar will likely impart a light amber hue), and all of them will pull color on natural wood and make them presentable. But they all stink to people who don't huff them on a regular basis so open the windows in the place and let some air in or your HO might get a little sideways with you.