Hello,
Apologies in advance if this is not the right forum or if this issue has already been discussed. I did a search but was unable to find anything that covered my exact situation.
I am currently in the process of buying a semi-custom home with a well known builder in Southern California. Unfortunately, the experience has been less than stellar and amongst other issues, we recently discovered that they installed almond colored vinyl windows on our home instead of white. The home’s exterior is gray and blue, which is not complimentary to the mistakenly installed almond windows.
After we discovered the mistake, the builder admitted they were wrong but because window color is not specifically outlined in the contract, they are unwilling to replace them as it would delay the completion of this phase of the development and because they believe installing replacement windows would sacrifice the integrity of the home’s waterproofing since the building is still settling. They are unwilling to remove the stucco and drywall to install white new build windows.
Instead, the have offered some financial compensation, which ultimately leaves us with two options after we close – repaint the home with a new color scheme more in-line with the almond windows or replace them. While the first option is the easiest and most cost-effective, we are not confident the HOA design board will approve our color selections (there would be 4 beige toned homes all in a row) and my significant other severely dislikes the almond color. As such, we’re leaning toward the second option, however, the builder has strongly advised us against this due to the reasons stated above. My question is, is this a valid concern? Will replacement windows in a new build home inherently cause water issues due to the home still settling and cracking the replacement window seals?
Thanks so much for any help you can provide.
Replies
Look into having the windows painted. If done properly it should be long lasting and cheaper than the other two options.
There is no reason that a replacement window wouldn't be as durable as the original, if installed properly. As your builder suggested properly replacing the windows involves cutting back the stucco in order to flash the new windows. If the builder used spray foam to seal the windows on the inside you will also need to remove drywall to get the window out. This will be messy, time consuming, difficult, and expensive.
Thank you for the idea, Greg! We had actually considered painting the windows, however, they have internal grids sandwiched between the glass panes that, to our knowledge, there is no way to paint. This seems to be the perfect storm of bad scenarios.
That certainly adds another layer to the issue. How many of the windows have the grids? Replacing the glass part of the window is quite easy and costs less than you might expect. If just a few windows have the grids, replacing the necessary IGP's (insulated glass panels) and having the window frames painted may still be your best option.
Well.
Replace the sash and paint the rest. However, is painting vinyl......final? Never did it, haven’t seen it but then again, could be me.
One question. In the build contract, what did it say exactly regarding window finish? If it said white then builder should replace the sash and paint the rest. If he’s a decent experienced builder he loses a little but whose fault is that?
Best of luck.
Thanks Calvin. I appreciate that perspective. We're definitely open to painting the windows, but we can't figure out how to paint the grids/grille since they're encased between the glass.
As far as the contract, unfortunately there is no wording regarding window finish and our color scheme sheet does not specifically call out window finish either. That said, the builder recognized the mistake - no other versions of our home design in the community have almond windows and a home with the exact plan and color scheme as ours has white windows - however they're unwilling to fix it do to the time it would take and the fact that they are supported by the contract.
An Italian friend of mine could come up with the exclamatory reply.
But.
See what he says to replacing the sash only (window) not the frame around it, you can paint that. You could also offer to install the sash. After the first couple, you’d get the hang of it. Opening the glass and changing out the bars within, I’d paint the house that looks ok with tan.
The thing is, you can , I assume love the inside if that doesn’t screw that look as well. However, that damn curb appeal seems like a big deal in selling.
Damn. You beat me.
What brand windows are they?
You could just replace all the sashes, which should be pretty easy, if maybe somewhat expensive, then paint the window frames.
What?
You know my buddy Chuckie?
I live in SoCal and I know that NBC's I team or LA Times' Steve Lopez might be interested in your situation. I also know that the builder would not like for either of those individuals to know about the problem. Also the California State Contractors State License Board might also be interested. Just sayin'
Thanks so much for the helpful discussion thus far. We had decided to move forward with replacing the sashes and painting the frame, however, after looking at the windows this weekend, they appear to be of fairly low quality. We'd prefer to just replace them with something better and more aesthetically pleasing now, even with the added cost. As mentioned, the builder has advised us against this as they feel the home's settling process will cause issues with replacement windows. Can anyone verify if this is a real concern and/or something that should keep us from moving forward?
Thanks again, everyone!
I didn’t build it and don’t know the quality of who did.
But, a good build is on a good foundation over a properly prepared footing. Any window properly installed might be compromised by more than usual settling. His answer sounds more like a supposed cover your butt excuse.
His lesser quality current windows certainly would suffer the same demise.
As an aside, here in Ohio the local lumberyard and builders are experiencing the blow up material costs. Contracts on custom built homes have needed a dictionary to write them up. They told me some known builders have instituted a cost plus or T&M contract only as total costs have risen over 30,000 from signing to finish. Feels good not to be in that boat......either side.
What brand were the usual windows and are they just being installed?
The market, both in terms of supply costs and real estate in general, is nuts!
They're Alpine windows and unfortunately, they've already been installed.
If the colour wasn't specified, the builder should have noticed the omission and confirmed the appropriate choice before ordering.
An architect, hired by either you or the builder, prepared the drawings. He/she spec'd the brand, size, the IGU coatings and Argon fill, style, opening direction if casement, muntins and even the style of muntins, and everything else but left out the colour????
There is more to the issue than "the contract". If you didn't hire the architect and don't have the blueprints, you need to get a set. Go to City Hall. They have a copy of all blueprints, submitted to obtain building permits, of nearly every building in the City (stored on microfiche after a period of time).
Perhaps the architect intended the builder's "Design Assistants" to help new purchasers choose the appropriate exterior colour package in the "design studio" and the window colour would automatically flow from that choice. This would be on the blueprints in the "Notes". ie, "Colour to spec'd by design staff." Builders/architects employ colour/style consultants to get everything right--shingles, paint, siding, trim, doors, garage doors, etc., even the number style for the address. I do not believe that the architect made a mistake and "forgot" to spec the colour somewhere.
My 2 cents from the little you've described? It's between the architect and builder to sort it out between themselves. It's not your job to think of every detail on your own. Was there a check-off sheet of all the decisions/selections you had to make? Someone made a mistake and it wasn't you.
The end result is you hold back the final payment. You do have a hold back don't you?
FWIW. Yes, it is possible to paint plastic. How long will the paint last? Who knows? Depends on the brand I guess. The new Low VOC paint formulations don't seem to dry to the hard finish of alkyd and airborne dirt seems to cling to it. Can't be washed clean. The paint simply looks dirty after even 4 short years and requires repainting. Avoid modern paints for the exterior.
Thank you for all the details! This isn't a custom home. In their words, it's "semi-custom" but closer to a tract home. Windows and window color were not one of the options that we explicitly got to choose, however, based on the exterior elevation, white windows are their standard choice (almond is used in a different elevation of our home). Unfortunately, while they've stated that this isn't the typical installation for our design, in their view it is "acceptable". They have given us some financial compensation and because we love the house otherwise, we're trying to figure out how to make the windows work. Because of the compensation we received and because they seem to be lower quality anyway, we're leaning toward replacing them. Unfortunately, the builder's warning about foundation settling and potential leak issues if we replace them too early, we're nervous about doing so. We're unsure if this is a valid concern as others have told us this is a fine option and that the new windows, if properly installed, will simply settle along with the home.
We've run across a lot of conflicting information so far in our search for the best solution, so I truly appreciate everyone's insights and input.
Foundations should not settle and if they do you've got a HUGE problem. However the wood walls will shrink, not settle. Over the length of 8 or 9 feet, the 2x will shrink a few 16th of an inch as the wood dries completely.--this is not kiln dried hardwood for furniture you understand. Replacing the windows now will not change that or compromise the structure.
Your builder is trying to baffle you with B.S. regarding the potential of jeopardizing your home's integrity.
You've confirmed that the architect spec'd almond coloured windows for an alternative elevation. The builder recognizes that the mistake was theirs and is trying to buy you off--because it's cheaper than replacing windows. As mentioned by others, the stucco has to be removed around each window, the new windows have to be installed and flashed properly and the stucco re-applied.--Don't allow the builder to simply cut out the old windows, install new ones and use caulk to seal your home against water.
I think that you're leaning toward having them replaced and considering that lower quality windows were installed, I would suggest you do so. It won't be detrimental to your home.
Seems to me that the builder could be trying to save some money/cut corners by installing these lower quality windows that were intended (and priced into) a different elevation.--and then using the argument that the colour wasn't spec'd to get around the switch. You've noticed that they are of lower quality.--and that's the key to winning. Colour is a subjective attribute. Quality isn't.
The issue can now be framed about the quality of the windows in your elevation and it puts you in the driver's seat of the bargaining.