Replies

1. 
   Hudson Valley Carpenter | Sep 18, 2009 06:57pm | #1

   bump.

   How should I seal/flash around the casing on the other walls where the existing shingles will remain? In particular, I'm concerned where the siding meets the vertical casing. The drip cap could direct water to flow down the seam. I don't want to rely on caulk to keep the water out.

   I haven't done that application myself but I've relied on clear silicone caulk in similar situations, for many years.  Applied correctly to clean, dry surfaces, it's adhesion and life span are excellent. 

   
   

   ---

   Edited 9/18/2009 12:02 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter

2. 
   Geoffrey | Sep 19, 2009 05:19am | #2

   Mike,

   you can cut a strip of 15# or 30# felt 6" or whatever width fits your situation, slip it under the shingles about 2" , removing any nails with a shingle ripper if needed, then have the felt run under the casing to the RO,  at the bottom of the window have the felt strip lap over a shingle (without being exposed) so any water that gets in between casing and shingles runs down felt and out at the bottom, no harm done. I'm assuming Red Cedar R&R's , so you should have an easier time slipping the felt under the existing shingles vs. White Cedar shingles.

   Hope all is well in beantown, (I'm originally from Waltham)

                                                                                 Geoff

                                                                                      

1. 
   MadisonRenovations | Sep 19, 2009 07:40am | #3

   Geoff,I like the felt paper over last shingle idea. I need to think about that a bit more, probably adding a second small piece under that layer lapping over sill to get water to go out rather than into the old weight pockets.But you bring up more thoughts. One wall has newer Western Red R&R, but they are stapled. Staples seem to work well for the side that's being stripped and replaced with a Homeslicker rainscreen mat underneath, but I'm not sure we can loosen (and tighten later) the edges enough to get felt underneath.The other wall has original shingles, as far as I can tell, although it's painted but no lead was detected in a test. Those are probably local Eastern White, dontcha think? 1920's New England construction. But those were nailed, so some hope.re: the state of Beantown
   Things are slow to change here, as you may recall. Lizzy's is still making the list of top ice cream places by the Globe. We got a mega-expensive roadwork project (Big Dig), but traffic to the north is backed up to at least Medford every morning - seems to be worse than before.thanks,
   ---mike...
   Cambridge, Mass.

1. 
   Geoffrey | Sep 20, 2009 06:17pm | #4

   Mike,

   I personally think staples are a poor choice for fastening shingles, but that's me.

   As for loosening the existing shingles w/staples, try sliding a shingle (slate) ripper up underneath and cutting them, then re-nail once you've installed the felt.

   The other wall has original shingles, as far as I can tell, although it's painted but no lead was detected in a test. Those are probably local Eastern White, dontcha think? 1920's New England construction. But those were nailed, so some hope. 

   Actually,no, most Western reds were painted and are R & R's , whites were left natural or stained for that "Cape Cod" look, also White's tend to move more over time from season to season and don't come R & R.

   The fact you detected no lead in the "original" paint would indicate they may be replacement shingles OR  they were painted post-1978, when lead based paint was outlawed  OR it's really just stain not paint.

      

   Sounds like the ride from up north hasn't changed much... and  you should know it's Me'ford, no "d"  in there!  :)

                                                                Geoff

1. 
   MadisonRenovations | Sep 21, 2009 05:31pm | #7

   @Geoff

   > Actually,no, most Western reds were painted and are R & R's , whites were left natural or stained for that "Cape Cod" look, also White's tend to move more over time from season to season and don't come R & R.

   If they are original 1920's, I wouldn't think they'd ship Western Reds cross country; I thought local was preferred, but I could be wrong.

   The fact you detected no lead in the "original" paint would indicate they may be replacement shingles OR they were painted post-1978, when lead based paint was outlawed OR it's really just stain not paint.

   I was guessing they might have been stained until the post-lead period, then painted afterward - seems to be only one layer on the shingles (many on the casing and sashes). It certainly peels like paint. :-P

   and you should know it's Me'ford, no "d" in there! :)

   I was writing not speaking, so proper spelling was in order. There is half of a first "d" in the pronunciation, but it's "Medfud" to the locals. :-)

   ---mike...

1. 
   Geoffrey | Sep 23, 2009 02:49am | #8

   LOL    :)

2. 
   RedfordHenry | Sep 23, 2009 04:53am | #9

   Red on the roof, white on the walls.  If the exposure is 5-6" my guess is that they'd be white.

   As for sealing the new casings, what was there before?  Probably nothing.

   I'd run healthy bead of clear silicone up along the shingles and renail the new casings.  Done.

3. 
   Shep | Sep 23, 2009 03:24pm | #12

   Its your lucky day. Two posts from me in minutes LOL

   Anyway, I don't like using silicone anywhere where paint might be involved. I'd rather use a polyurethane caulk, or even a good latex, and not worry about the possibility of the paint pealing.

4. 
   mmoogie | Sep 23, 2009 05:32am | #10

   I've not tried it with shingles, but I have been able to slip a strip of vycor behind existing clapboards with the paper still on the back, then work the paper off by pulling straight down slowly and wrap it back into the RO.Steve

5. 
   RedfordHenry | Sep 23, 2009 05:48am | #11

   What's the point of stretching vycor around the corner and into the rough opening?  This creates a path into the RO for any water that does get through the gap between the siding and the casing.

   I think it might be better to slip the vycor behind the siding, sticky side facing out.  Leave a few inches of vycor where the casing will go, then stick the casing down to that.

   Instant window flange.

   What we need is vycor that is sticky on both sides!

3. 
   Piffin | Sep 20, 2009 06:52pm | #5

   thirty pound tarpaper strip behind that joint.

   You can wiggle/slide in a strip of AL instead

    

    

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   Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
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   Excellence is its own reward!

4. 
   florida | Sep 20, 2009 09:08pm | #6

   I use a 4" piece of aluminum break metal. I cut each leg into 2 pieces and slide it under the old siding and felt as far as I can. I then wrap the entire jamb and edge of the aluminum with Vycor. The benefit of the aluminum is that it's relatively easy to get under the old siding.

5. 
   MadisonRenovations | Oct 21, 2009 08:30am | #13

   One more question: should the bottom of the side casing be caulked to the sill or left open to dry?

   I forgot to check if cuts to the casing stock were primed as spec'd, but I doubt it. Sealing the gap would reduce infiltration assuming that the attempt to seal at the interior side is not fully successful. Leaving the gap open would also allow rain/snow to get pushed in on windy days. However, sealing the bottom would trap any water that got behind the casing and dripped to the sill, potentially rotting casing and/or sill.

1. 
   mmoogie | Oct 21, 2009 02:11pm | #14

   Depends what you were able to do with the flashing. Did you create some knd of pan-flashing at the bottom of the opening? were you able to wrap the sides and under the shingles with something? Did you pull the windows to deal with the openings or just pull the casings?The operating assumption for me is always that water WILL get past the window and into the window opening. All windows will leak eventually, the most likely point being at the jamb/sill connection. Expect there to be water at the bottom of the RO and provide a path for it to exit. I would pull the windows, then I would slope the RO subsill to the outside with a piece of bevel siding, then wrap with flexwrap along the bottom and up the first six inches of the sides, then Vycor up the sides of the RO, wrapped around the sides and tucked under the siding. If there is sheathing, I might be content for the flexwrap along the bottom to lap over that. But sometimes I try to lap it out over top of the first row of siding that the flexwrap reaches that can still be covered with the next row of siding above above it. so as to direct any water that got behind the window out from behind the siding.Which gets back to your original question...whether you caulk along the bottom depends mostly on where your drainage path exists. If that is an exit point for moisture, don't caulk it.Actually I would say, no matter what dont caulk it, but I try to build so that no exterior caulk is required. Caulk will fail. Water will get in in. Caulk will only impede things from drying out again.SteveSteve

1. 
   MadisonRenovations | Oct 21, 2009 06:24pm | #15

   These are original sills with 15 deg (or so) slope up to the inside stool. Replacement casing is 5/4 with the same bevel angle of the sill, pretty tightly done. My thought first thought was to leave it uncaulked for drainage, but I didn't know if it made sense to mostly caulk with some weep holes, or something else.

1. 
   mmoogie | Oct 21, 2009 09:23pm | #16

   What's it got for a sub-sill in the rough opening? 2x on the flat? That is where you need a slope to shed the water that leaks into the opening through the window frame failures. Many if the mid-nineteenth century houses here have no rough subsil at all, which complicates things.Steve