I am currently restoring a porch on a 1916 villa style house.
The columns are doric and made with 12 interlocking boards.
It looks like the individual column boards were taper cut and lap jointed on the edges.
Then it looks like the whole assembly was turned smooth and detail added. The columns are 9′-6″ tall.
I have three missing columns. Has anyone out there built a similar column. Any reproduction shops?
I have turned some smaller four foot columns but nothing this big.
Any suggestions?
thanks
greg
Replies
I don't mean to be flippant but find a wood turners shop with a big lathe and farm the work out PS try Old House Journal magazine or web site you might find a company who will make them
You can make it fool proof but not idiot proof
Edited 6/8/2006 2:41 am ET by Bolts
I've often wondered how I would tackle this - it's got to come up sooner or later!
I don't think these would require a lathe with a 10' bed; just a jig.
I would make the (12) stave sections of 8/4 or 12/4, beveled but non-tapered at this stage. Make them all identical in the tablesaw. Either biscuit or spline them together, or use a lap or T&G edge joint detail - plus good weatherproof glue. Bias the joint work toward the inside of the staves.
Then you've got a straight, thick walled column with a diameter a little bigger than the base diameter of what you want.
Then, calculate or draw the entasis (taper) curve full scale, and cut (2) straight 2x8s to that curve.
Build a 10' long horizontal jig that supports each end of the column on-axis, that allows you to rotate it - like a rotisserie. Mount your entasis curve forms on either side of the column.
Mount your biggest router on a slide plate that slides along the entasis curve forms, and a big hogging bit.
Slide the router along the forms, cutting a steadily deeper groove. Rotate the column a few degrees, and do it again. Eventually, you'll have a lightly faceted column the right taper. Scrape and sand it smooth.
Then, put a cove bit in the router, make fore-and-aft stops on your router sled, and make passes to put flutes in - same as before, just don't let the column wiggle or the router shift perpendicular. Index the columns, and rotate in 30 degree increments.
This seems time-consuming, but it shouldn't allow much chance of screwing up. Let me know if this works - I just spent $9700 on two Chadsworth columns; 20" diameter X 18' tall
Forrest
Your method sounds like it would work. I once restored some fluted Ionic columns made exactly the same way. I had all the staves apart and everything. It appears that they actually had the taper sawn in before assembly, then it had been fluted. Also there were no splines but rather the joint was an interlocking part of the stave. I used recourcinol glue...a pain to work with, but once it was dry there was no going back.
By the way, there are router bits made for joints like I'm describing. I just did a whole set of wrapped beams this last winter in clear pine using an interlocking miter joint on my router table and it turned out really sweet. There is no joint to be seen, it all looks solid.This type of project can turn out really beautiful but it's important that one really think it through, and it appears that you have done just that.
Forrest
I don't see why your suggestions wouldn't work. I will give it a try.
Of course I've got my Dad's 1940's wood bed lathe
It will go up to 7 feet. I could just build a longer bed and turn the columns at low speed.
I was concerned about safety it the column came off. Your method seems a whole lot safer
It seems like every old house around here has the same column so I asume they massed produced them for sale. The columns not only have entasis but a cove at the top and rabbit cuts at the top and bottom to receive base and cap.
Our columns have weathered well but I have noticed if they get water or are not maintained with fresh paint every 25 years or so they blow apart from swelling. I have seen at least one house with plumbing strap around the columns to keep them from expanding.
Forrest- I just thought I'd let you know that the method you suggest is basically the same as what I saw in a FHB book I just bought- Finish Carpentry, I think. So the method should work fine.
It wouldn't be hard to adjust the taper on the column, either. Fun stuff, it would be.zak
"so it goes"
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Greg
I've built some column similar to what your talking about.
I had the chance to do a repair/rebuild on an old federal house and the two columns on the portico needed replaced, I wanted to make them and the HO wanted to buy them out.
I told him that I'd find a source for them and went off and learned how to build em, screw him I wanted to do it!
I don't remember all my measurements anymore but I think they were about 10-12" at the bottom and finished off at the top around 9-10"
I cut twelve strips of wood(I don't remember my exact width, draw a circle and figure out the size you need) with the bevel @ 15°, then I made a jig or guide so I could bisquet them together. The guide just assured that the bisquets were all in the same place, you could measure each one if need be.
I did the glue up with one of my sons helping me, time is critical in that you don't want the glue tacking up on you to soon. I used a resorcinol(sp?) glue(powder mixed with water) but I think you can get by with Titebond III.
I had 8 or 10 of those strap clamps that have a ratchet to do my glue up.
Layed it all out, I went ahead and applied the glue while my son went behind me putting bisquets in all the slots, TIP; if you do use bisquets get good ones, the last thing you want to do is fight the stupid bisquet getting it into the slot, I use Lamello, nothing better.
Once the gluing and bisquets were all inserted we just started fitting one piece after another to make the column. Wrapped the straps around and started ratcheting down on them. I used a rubber mallet to beat the stubborn bisquets and staves together, that's why its important to use quality bisquets, this isn't the time for taking something apart because of some cheap azzed bisquets.
When the columns were all clamped up I let them sit overnight.
I went looking for someone to turn them round for me thinking that was the only way to do it.
Friend of mine had a 10' lathe but he was busy and told me in a joking way to go home and figure it out, hook it up to your back wheel on your car(front wheel if you got front wheel drive) and use that to turn it. He told me we weren't sending men to the moon we were working with wood, make it work!
It got me thinking and what I came up with was to build a box out of plywood, pictures attached of the box I came up with.
My columns were to be built in the classic manor where the column would start to tapper at about 1/3 of the way up to the final finished circumference. I don't have any of the specifics anymore. That tapper is not strait though, it has a bit of an arc to it.
I don't have any pictures of the ends that I built but what I did was make a plywood end for the box and because I was fluting the columns I needed to have an index so my fluting landed in the right spot. I drew that out knowing that I could drive a screw through into the column end and keep everything indexed.
I also cut an end for the column and screwed that in place. I put the column inside the box and screwed my box ends on leaving only about 1/8" between the ends and the column. Then I inserted a 20 penny nail in from the end into the top of the column end, that way the column would spin freely. Hope that makes sense!
I set my homemade sled on top of the box with a 1/2" dado router bit chucked in it.
I figured that I would have to run this back and forth in order to get my 12 sided column round. I received a big surprise. The spin of that router bit cause the column to spin very fast, just like a lathe would!
I had to hold my hand on the free spinning column as a break so that it didn't spin to fast! All I had to do was run my sled from one end down to the other and I was done. Took about 20 minutes to have a round column! Great surprise!
Because I was going to flute I didn't care if my column was all that smooth when I was done rounding it, all I was going to have was 1/2" in-between flutes to clean up, no problem with a ROS.
Attached is some pictures to clarify what I hope makes sense!
Also one pic of the final resting place for these columns. I think I had about 24 hours in the two of them.
Damn, I forgot to turn off my internet security so I cant post pictures on this post, they will follow on the next one!
Doug
Edited 6/8/2006 5:59 pm ET by DougU
I know a shop that made some Honduras mahogany columns for a job that I was working on that were longer than yours. he used some saw horses and a 2 plywood "L" shaped guides that went down both sides of the columns.
He used a huge makita door jointer to rough out shape that spanned over the t "L" brackets on both sides.
He then borrowed my power feeder and used it to turn the columns as he slowly moved the Up the column.
These Things came out nice.
Greg
Here are the pix.
Pictures are all scans so quality isnt the best!
Doug
Doug, that's just massively inspiring! - I've always wanted to tackle something like that.
Super, super work
Forrest
It really wasnt that difficult, a lot less so then I thought it would be but I was determined to do it.
The glue up was the only thing that I sweated.
Doug
Thanks guys for sharing this with me.
I am no longer intimidated just ready to get started.
thanks
Greg
Greg
You mentioned the failure of the columns in your neighborhood.
I applied a Behr water sealer to the inside of my columns. I tipped them up and poured it into the column, rotating as I poured it. Have a pan at the bottom to catch the remains.
When I installed the columns I drilled a hole at the top and one at the bottom, this will let air circulate through the column keeping it stable, if I remember right the hole was about 5/8 or 3/4" on the back side. I shoved a piece of screen into the hole so that the column didn't become a highrise condo for bugs and wasps.
Here is a quick sketch of the way that the 1840's columns were put together, I wanted to duplicate that but knew better that to attempt it!
Doug
Doug,
That was really really great! It's so good to see people like you who are determined, think it through on their own, and do something right.
Dammm. you saved me an aftre noon of typeing and then some!
Great stuff there Bud.
BTW, I am only home due to my ankle busting loose yesterday aft., looks like a long haul from what the Dr.says..this AINT good.
I just got offa the -codone a few weeks ago, today I got a new scrip...Ruck Me Funning, est ankle cost is hitting ozone layer of my bank acct.
Did I say this aint good.?
Oh, sorry, thems is nice. Again.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
There is no cure for stupid. R. White.
BTW, I am only home due to my ankle busting loose yesterday aft., looks like a long haul from what the Dr.says..this AINT good.
that just reafirms my reason to stay off of roofs!
My old body cant take any of that shid.
Hope ya mend well.... Some of them drugs are nice though! :)
Doug
Thanks Doug,
I am about to shelve meself to a TV show and act famous and shid...
6 mos of pain, or 6 minutes of fame each week on PBS. That is what we do.........................................right?
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
There is no cure for stupid. R. White.
HEY! I just remembered you dont go all Tavern wise..looky what SplinterGroupy ( she'll kill me for that) sent me..the not blue one on the left............of the blue one.
View Image
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
There is no cure for stupid. R. White.
I did see in some thread you and Splinty making a deal on that vise, dont remember where? Your right, it couldnt have been the tav!
You realy think you need two!
If you dont get to that mowing thing that Piff mentioned you might do a little house keeping in the shop, not that mine is any better...
Doug
" you saved me an aftre noon of typeing and then some!"Now you've got time to mow the lawn
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!