I know this would not be the most economical way to wire a house but other than that, what is wrong with dedicating a circuit for each room. Lighting and receptacle outlets. (i.e. Bedrooms) I realize that kitchen, bath etc. require dedicated circuits and some rooms may require more than one circuit.
The point I am trying to make is that I get so blanky blank tired of trying to locate the circuit breaker for a particular light or recpt’l outlet when I need to cut off the power.
And that list inside the load center is a joke. To list everything properly, you would need a fold-out sheet of some kind or a book. Thanks, I feel better now.
Replies
That's the way most people I know do it.
"I wonder if Heaven got a Ghetto." Tupac
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChIdFwQwoYM&feature=related
Maybe each room's receptacles on it's own circuit and then several room's lights on another seperate circuit.
You get an A+ for your perception of the inadequacies of most panel schedules. Bdrm #1, Bdrm #2???... The solution is to include a diagram or sketch of the house. Each circuit is numbered [number books available at HD] and marked on the chart and labeled in the panel.
This is a commercial idea and it doesn't always work when you have a bunch of apprentices and laborers doing things. I.e., 480 volt parking lot lamps hooked up to #3 and #12 instead of #12 and #14. Same color but test both sides to ground [if that works]. Or room A feeds room B which feeds room C which is fed from room B. How come the lights don't work?
~Peter
I have a map in the panel of my house, including a "You are here" X next to the main panel (highlighted in red too). Each circuit lists exactly which room it covers (via the map). The junction box in the attic also lists every wire connection, and whether it is on phase 1 (red) or phase 2 (black).
I also reran all my wiring down a central raceway "backbone"... and interlinked seried of 12" wide wire closet shelves. Easy to tie the romex down, easy to keep wires seperated, easy to branch off. Didn't cost $8 a foot either.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
If your hair looks funny, it's because God likes to scratch his nuts. You nut, you.
I like to mix light and recep circuits so that if a breaker trips, the receps die (they are the usual suspects) but the lights stay on. I always put a detailed table inside the panel of each breaker and all the devices that it protects.
....Sadly... this is something that the electrical trade doesn't seem to think necessary (or perhaps clients don't think it necessary and therefore the trade doesn't do it.)
Scott.
Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.”
The code does require the circuit breakers to be labeled.But, at least in this area, that section of the code is written in invisable ink..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
It's a condition here, too. But things fall down.
My house, and after I bought it, got tired real fast of my Dad's wiring. So I bought a 125A panel and a bunch of 15A breakers, and my cousin (licensed sparky) changed it over from a 60A fused system.
Naturally, we separated out everything we could, but we just did not check every circuit to see where it went.
Fast forward 2 years: I'm redoing my son's bedroom, studs out. Old system, 1 plug, one light. New system 2 dedicated circuits and 2 spares for the other bedroom.
Now I'm doing the other bedroom, studs out. I have 3 circuits there, the dedicated ones we provided for, plus a BX cable that I have no idea yet, where it comes from or why (but I'll find out, later) because everything was so jammed in the original box and led to subpanels, we just could not figure out where things went.
I also like to have at least one circuit per room, and especially in upstairs bedrooms and home theaters where I know A/C will be added.
But, I have yet to go into a remodel (renovation in Canadaspeak) where the panel is labeled properly or completely. New construction is different.Quality repairs for your home.AaronR Construction
Vancouver, Canada
Edited 2/3/2008 2:41 am by AaronRosenthal
i heard by the grapevine mislabeling was caused by too many sparkies smoking bc hydro when in lotus land
Does the code further define how accurate/explicit those labels are to be? Seems BR 1, MbR, Kitch GF, meets the minimum.
I always get a kick out of folks who enjoy blaming the tradesmen for making their life difficult,
I labeled panels according to the prints. if the house had four bedrooms, the panel was labeled that way, but that was a long time ago and I have no idea what the drawings look like for new homes these days! I imagine they must look like crayon drawings since just about everyone is an expert these days and knows volumes more than the jamoke who does it everyday.
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., wer ist jetzt der Idiot ?
You need to blane the electrican in this case. Also the GC in how much they will pay for extra circuits.But most plans for house, unless in the very customs mansion size (with all kinds of home automation, etc) the plans only show the locations of receptacles, switches, and lighting.Once past the required circuit such as 2 small appliance kitchen circuits it is up to the electrican to determine the number of circuits and what is on each..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I recall circuiting some custom houses, but tract was a no brainer and not my responsibility to label the panel for each and every receptacle on a given circuit. kitchens being the exception and there were no computer circuits or special use rooms until the mid 80s####, coax was brand new and phone wire was just phone wire. it wasn't referred to as cat3,4, or 5 we could argue this all day long, so someone making a drawing of their house is a good idea, just not my problem, because the houses passed inspection with the "vague" labeling.
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., wer ist jetzt der Idiot ?
I have no idea of what they were thinking when they label it BR1 but I sure do know what SW BR would mean, Southwest bedroom.
of course , but for the most part if it was BR 1 on the Drawing It was BR1 in the panelbut since the as-builts always went back to the shop .. I have no idea if the new HO ever got a copy.
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., wer ist jetzt der Idiot ?
From 2005 NEC."408.4 Circuit Directory or Circuit Identification
Every circuit and circuit modification shall be legibly identified as to its clear, evident,
and specific purpose or use. The identification shall include sufficient detail to allow each
circuit to be distinguished from all others. The identification shall be included in a circuit
directory that is located on the face or inside of the panel door in the case of a
panelboard, and located at each switch on a switchboard."And this is from the NEC Handbook. It is not code, but explaination and background."The requirement to provide an up-to-date, accurate, and legible circuit directory applies
to panelboards and switchboards covered in Article 408. The circuit directory is an
important feature for the safe operation of an electrical system under normal and
emergency conditions. The purpose of an accurate and legible circuit directory in these
types of equipment is to provide clear identification of circuit breakers and switches
that may need to be operated by service personnel or those who need to operate a
switch or circuit breaker in an emergency. This requirement is specific to switchboards
and panelboards; however, the identification requirements of 110.22 apply to all
disconnecting means.
Section 408.4 was revised for the 2005 Code to require that the identification for every
circuit supplied by a panelboard or switchboard be legible and clearly state the specific
purpose for which the circuit is used. Circuits used for the same purpose must be
identified as to their location. For example, small appliance branch circuits can supply
outlets in the kitchen, dining room, and kitchen countertops. Identifying the circuits as
small appliance branch circuits is not acceptable; instead, they should be identified as
``kitchen wall receptacles,'' ``dining room floor receptacle,'' or ``kitchen countertop
receptacles left of sink.'' Circuit directories containing multiple entries with only
``lights'' or ``outlets'' do not provide the sufficient detail required by this section."But there is no way in H*LL that you can get all of that informtion on a panel, unless you use 0.1 pt type, that they want for an older home, specially one that has remodeled. On a friend house that was really screwed with a bad addition and in terms of labeling circuits I made it worse by run more and chopping some in two. Or like the one receptacle that had been added in a bedroom with grounded receptacle and grounded wiring, but tapped off an ungrounded cable I put it on a new circuit, but one not otherwised used by that room.So I got the top 2 or 3 places that circuit went on the panel. And attached to the front of the panel and evelope where I put a floor plan annd more details of the circuits.I also did that with the plumbing for shutoff which shut off different sections of the plumbing. And also instructions on how to drain an outside facuet that is not frost proof and can't be easily replaced, pipe goes outside and then turns up under the siding. And the shut off with a drain tap was installed backwards..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Edited 2/3/2008 10:08 am by BillHartmann
It's a good point that it's nicer having the lights stay on if a breaker trips, which is usually overloaded receptacles.
Kind of nit-picky on my part, but I also hate seeing lights dim when something that draws a lot of power gets turned on on a circuit which has lights on it as well. Especially if it's using a tool or in a kitchen, I like lots of bright light where I'm working.Paul
Congratulations You've made a 'design decision!'
To get the right answers, you need to ask the right question. Fir the final consumer / user, the question is neither 'how cheap can I be,' nor is it 'what's the least I can get away with?'
Instead, you're asking 'what do I really want at the end?' THAT's the question folks need to ask.
Code only says the panel will have a directory identifying the breakers. (FWIW, the NEC panel has said that markings next to, or on, the breakers complies with this requirement - you don't HAVE to use the card that comes with the panel). I've seen far too many panels where every space was marked 'lights and receptacles.' Absolutely useless.
I've also seen panels where the door flipped up to a horizontal position, then had the directory mounted so that it appeared upside down. Good luck.
Then there's the tine space to write things down in .... it's hard to fit 'master BR' in - let alone something like 'north wall of living room, south walls of BR 3,4.'
So ... running a separate circuit to every major room is a great idea. So is having a map mounted on the panel ... you can 'color in' the areas covered by each circuit.
As you might have guessed, I am pretty unhappy with some common wiring practices.
I remember reading a homeowner's tip in FH along time ago. He simply wrote the breaker number on the inside of the cover plate of the receptacle or switch.