Replies

1. 
   lonewolf96 | Aug 11, 2009 01:58am | #1

   I would assume that drywall work would be included with either choice. Depending on how the ceiling/floor joists run would be the main issue. If the wall is running 90deg to the wall just screw top and bottom plate to the framing members. Parallel to framing may need some help. Not ideal but construction adhesive fixes many problems. Had to move a doorway in a basement remodel, cut two inches off a PT bottom plate that I had PL'd down, kicked with my foot, broke my big toe!

   Greg

2. 
   Davo304 | Aug 11, 2009 11:40am | #2

   On a non-load bearing wall partition, anchoring that stud to an existing wall should be done in any manner that causes you the least amount of reworking as possible...so long as the stud is firmly anchored.   If butting against drywall, cut out a top, middle and bottom channel to fit crosspieces. Using a pocket hole jig or fasten by angling or toenailing screws. Having said this, I seldom ever go this route.

    

   Easiest way to attach to drywall is butting a metal stud channel plate to the existing drywall. You can use toggle bolts, but I prefer to use  drywall "zip" anchors...the metal ones work best.  Butt the channel to the existing drywall and plumb in place. While holding it plumb, drill an 1/8 inch hole thru the channel and into the drywall. Remove the channel, and switch to a 1/4 inch dia drill bit. Now drill into the drywall only with this bit thru your initial pilot hole. Now insert the zip anchor. These anchors are installed by srewing them in to the drwall untill flush. Now go back and  temporarily attach the channel to the drywall by driving a drywall screw thru the stud's initial pilot hole and into the zip anchor.  Now proceed to drill 1/8 inch pilot holes thru the channel and into the drywall at your desired anchor points.

   Remove stud channel, and repeat drilling and installing the zip anchors. Now apply construction adhesive to back of stud channel and proceed to permanently attach channel to drywall via zip anchor locations.

   After chanel is in place, you can build your wood stud wall.  The end stud and its attached top and bottom plates will slide right into this metal wall channel. Screw thru the metal flanges into the wood stud and plates to secure in place. The channel is thin enough so that its flanges will not "telegraph" thru to the drywall when later installed.  I use this attach point method the most .

   For old plaster walls, normally there is enough wood lath so that a drywall screw will find its mark and hold a stud in place.  I always use construction adhesive at this connection. Not sure it helps, but I figure it can't hurt.

    

    

   Davo

    

    

1. 
   peedee | Aug 11, 2009 04:48pm | #4

   Thanks, this sounds like a reasonable and efficacious solution. For clarification do you anchor the top plate to the ceiling drywall in the same manner (where the wall runs parallel to the ceiling joists)? As you are likely familiar in many remodel/ retrofit situation HOs prefer the least intrusive and dust generating solutions.
   Regards,
   David

   Edited 8/11/2009 9:52 am ET by peedee

1. 
   frammer52 | Aug 11, 2009 09:58pm | #6

   clarification do you anchor the top plate to the ceiling drywall in the same manner >>>>>>>>>.

   yep.

2. 
   Davo304 | Aug 13, 2009 10:22am | #7

   "Do you anchor the top plate in the ceiling drywall in the same manner?" 

   Yes I do, but let me clarify.  On non-load bearing walls in remodeling, I tend to favor a "hybrid" construction, whereby I utilize metal channels for both the bottom and top plates , but use wood studs instead of steel studs for the "infill.". One reason for my using wood studs are that I am set up to cut and work with wood more readily than I am with metal.

   I can gang cut wood studs to length so that each stud fits in between the steel botom and top channel plates well enough so to sink a screw into them thru the plate's flange ...each stud does not have to fit exactly tight, just tight enough so to be pinned in place by the flange. I prefer to attach the wood studs to the metal plates using drywall screws, but a regular nail gun can also be used. The metal is thin enough so that the nails will easily shoot through the flange safely.

   I use screws however, cause if there is a framing error ( door location in wrong spot, etc), its an easy fix to back out a couple of screws rather than fight pulling the nails.

   Another advantage to using wood studs over metal is when  I need to run wiring in that wall. It's easier and safer running wire thru wood than worrying about  possibly skinning a wire when running thru metal studs...plus, it eliminates the hassle of buying and inserting the required plastic guard inserts when using metal studs.  It's also easier to attach electic gang boxes to existing wood studs rather than cut  and attach wood blocking in various locations if using  metal studs.

   In addition, When hanging drywall, I prefer wood studs over steel studs.  For me, it easier to drive drywall screws into wood rather than metal;  and I think construction adhesive works better on wood  than metal. Other contractors may disagree with these reasonings, but anyway, that's why I prefer a hybrid combination over all metal fabrication,  whenever I can.

   Framing walls in this  hybrid manner takes up far less room when assembling. Tack your plates to the floor and to the ceiling, gang cut a bunch of studs, and then proceed to individually install each stud vertically in place.  Beats throwing a bunch of studs on the floor, having to first clear out enough space to nail the wall together and/or building the wall outside and then dragging it inside into position.

   It's also easier to build in place one stick at a time rather than risk back injury having to tilt up into place. The friction of the  metal plate's flanges will normally hold each stud in position vertically while you rummage around for fasteners or whatever...no need for a second pair of hands.

   The metal plates are straight and true...no worries about sorting through your 2x stock in hopes of using the straightest  pieces  to use for plate material.  Chalk a line and that's where the metal plates will stay...right on that line.  Plumb a metal channel to butt and tie-in to an existing wall, and that corner will be perfectly plumb.

    

   That being said, there may be instances where you desire to run a single or double wood top plate on an interior wall as a nailing backer for large trim or whatever. If I build a wood wall in the conventional manner, and  need to attach the wall's top plate in between and parrallel  to existing ceiling joists, I  usually do the following: 

   I first lay out and chalk where  both my top and bottom  wall plates should line up, then I attach a metal channel to the ceiling first; using the described zip-anchor method. No metal plate is attached to the floor...the wall's wood bottom plate is all I need in this case.

    Next, I lift the wood framed wall up so that the wall's wooden top plate goes up into the the metal channel first...then I kick the bottom of the wall into position with the bottom chalk-line marks. In other words, I raise  ( actually pull) this wood framed wall straight-up, head first,..... rather than having it lie on its back on the floor and tilting the wall forwards.

   I do this so that the  wooden top plate will fit up and into the metal channel.  If instead I raised this wall in normal fashion, the wall would run into the channel' exterior flange and be hindered from standing up vertically and/or properly fitting into the steel channel.

   If you need to attach the wall at the corner and at the ceiling and both are hollow, you can either build the wall in 2 sections, raise the first section into place and then scoot it into the corner channel and secure both sections...then raise the sectond wall section and do the same...and then tie both wall sections together in the middle .  Or,  another option is to cut either the metal ceiling channel or the metal wall tie-in channel with tin snips, or a grinder, and completely  remove the nailing flange on one side of this plate. This will allow you to raise the entire wall into position. The cut channel will still have enough strength to  adequately tie in the 2x .

   If the joists run perpendicular, there is no need for a metal channel plate, just  raise the wood wall in normal fashion and shoot the wood plates into the ceiling joists where needed.

   A question was raised why I use metal channel plates rather than just using 2x material when  anchoring to the existing drywall with  zip anchors or toggle bolts.  Yes, you can actually eliminate the use of the channel plates and indeed just use 2x stock...however, the channels are straight and flat...your studs may not be. And, drilling a pilot hole thru a metal channel that is less than a 1/4 inch thick into your drywall, is easier to keep straight. Your holes and anchors will line up much easier.

   When drilling holes thru 2x stock, you may drill  a bit crooked...afterwards, the drywall screw going thru the 2x may not line up accurately with the installed zip anchor. Also,  holding a lightweight metal channel in place is easier to manuever and hold when drilling. And because the metal channel is both flat and thin, a zip anchor will hold this plate tight to its wall..even if the wall is slight bowed. Now if a wood stud is slightly bowed and needs to be sucked in tight to the drywall, there is more force put upon that zip anchor...in some cases the anchor may "blow-out" due to the strain.

    However, placing a slightly bowed 2x stud inside the anchored metal channel is no big deal...the channel's steel flange is wide enough so that the 2x will still be able to be attached...and although the 2x is slightly bowed outward, the channel is actually still sitting tight against the existing drywall tie-in point. When hanging new drywall, the sheet will still butt nice and tight into this corner, and drywall screws can be runned directly thru the new drywall and  into the metal channel.

    

   Well, this is rather "long-winded"  but I hope this answers any questions you may have.

    

   One more thing...a remodeler's tip when having to level off a basement ceilling. Say you are going torun strapping and then drywall a basement ceiling...so you run a couple of stringlines to see how well your ceiling joists are laying. You can plane the low ones, but instead of running a lot of shims for the high ones, attach a metal channel to the existing ceiling joist...only postion the channel at the proper height before attaching to the joist.  Any wires or pipe obstructions can easily be dealt with by snipping out these locations on the channel before installing. It's a lot easier to cut and work a steel channel than to try and attach a wood scab in this situation. The metal channel is now your new ceiling joist and should work just fine.  I actually first came across this tip via a Fine Homebuilding article and have used it successfully many times.

    

   Good luck on your projects.

    

   Davo

1. 
   Huck | Aug 13, 2009 10:30am | #9

   veddy interesting!

   a note: when adding a wall under a truss roof/ceiling, don't nail into the bottom chords, even when your wall is perpendicular.  Trusses are made to be attached to walls only at pre-determined locations that are engineered.  Attaching to the sheetrock would be OK, or use sliding truss clips, which are made for that application.View Image bakersfieldremodel.com

2. 
   Huck | Aug 11, 2009 07:49pm | #5

   Am I missing something here? - I don't see any advantage in the metal track.  If you're going to do as you described, why not just use the selfsame anchors to screw your end wall stud to the existing sheetrock?

   edited to add: ...which I have done before, and which worked out fine.

   View Image bakersfieldremodel.com

   Edited 8/11/2009 12:51 pm by Huck

1. 
   Davo304 | Aug 13, 2009 10:25am | #8

   Hi Huck.

   Yeah, you can skip the metal channels and just use the zips or toggle bolts into the 2x.

   But without repeating myself, please take a look at my reply to Peedee. It's post # 8.

    

   Thanks,

   Davo

3. 
   Huck | Aug 11, 2009 02:06pm | #3

   butting into existing drywall and anchoring to top and bottom plates

   I'll second that.  You could nail or screw into a stud, if one were there.  Or use a drywall anchor or toggle bolt in the middle. 

   View Image bakersfieldremodel.com