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Does anyone have any idea how they started making circular saws with the blade on the “wrong” side in th efirst place? It doesn’t make sense to me to me to have to lean over your work.
JD
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One inventor was Southpaw so they didn't have to lean over. Some how some others didn't realize they were buying southpaw saws. They bought them the manufactors made more and the rest is history.
I shoot longarms southpaw due to left eye dominance. that's about all I do southpaw.
*AllenSidewinders have the weight and the larger part of the foot over the work for a right hander. They are suppose to be more stable this way. This just happens to be in the way of right handers.As a right hander I prefer a blade-left saw.
*I believe the blade was first put on the right side as a safety issue. Wasn't it Skil that invented the "Skil" saw?
*A blade left saw would definitely cramp my style. I'm a righty and see no reason for wanting the blade left. The overwhelming reason for wanting a blade left seems to be that the sightline is improved. I've been concentrating on this idea, while cutting and have found that my sightlines are fine with my traditional green sidewinder. Sometimes I am peeking through, sometimes I am leaning over, sometimes I am watchhing the table.In any case, I don't have a sight problem. The blade left would cause me many problems though.blue
*I agree. I'm a rightie and I like holding stock or working on a stack on my left, with the scrap falling off to the right. The weight of the larger base and motor on the supported left carries the weight of the saw, so only need to guide the saw through the cut.I tried a blade left saw, and always felt the saw was about to twist over to the right during a cut. The view was nice, though. Still peeking and leaning works fine for me, and I will keep my blade right saw.
*Good point about the stock falling away RichMast. To those righties that use a blade left: Assuming that you cut stock while holding it with your left hand; do you have any problems with binding as the saw finishes the cut? I would tend to think that it would because your table would be pressing on the waste.I've never tried a blade left, but can't see how they would help me. I've got an employee that is a switch hitter and is going to buy a blade left. I'll try it out soon. But I KNOW that I won't be switching.blue
*Don't take this the wrong way, but I get just one impression reading this post.Youse are a weak-wristed bunch. I much prefer the blade left. I hold the stock with my left, and the baseplate of the saw rides over the scrap. With the blade on my side of the saw, not only is it simple to see where the cut is in relation to the line, but I can also pay attention to where the rest of the blade is going. No more cutting through those sawhorses.I have never had a problem with binding or anything else. Not even with skill worms. Why ? Because I am holding the weight of the saw myself, rather than expecting to be able to let the stock/cutoff bear the weight. I don't find it difficult, nor do I have an aching arm/wrist at the end of the day. I can hold the saw completely off of the wood, and still make a straight, square cut.I've never given this very much thought before, but while writing this I have done so. I am an artist, I work in all media, but have always had a soft spot for sculpture. It occurs to me that I have always had the same approach in sculpture as I do in carpentry. I usualy use the heaviest tools that I can comfortably manipulate. I personaly find I have a better time restricting the tool, or counter-balancing it. Only letting it go as far as I want it to. I have done some very delicate work with tools that most find difficult to hold steady, let alone guide craftily.I would suggest that you find yourself a lighter saw if you are having those kinds of difficulties. That and/or practice holding the saw so that the plate just barely kisses the wood. Do this long enough and you may be surprised to find that you can actualy tell when the plate is in full contact, or when one corner is touching before the others, etc. You may even be suprised at the gains, both in time and in safety.On the subject of safety, I have an anecdote. When I was in my very early 20's I was hired on by a local contractor, along with another guy who was a bit younger than I. This contractor was very much of the 'time is money' school. He demanded that we tie the blade guards of our saws back, because they would hold us up if the guard took a bind (which guards of that time did quite frequently). A drastic loss of safety for a ridiculous possible savings of maybe 2 or 3 seconds in a day. I argued the point and refused to tie mine back. I, of course, took a lot of abuse. Not only from him, but from my fellow carpenters. I was called everything from wuss to a**wipe. I still refused to tie my guard back, and got another job as soon as the opportunity presented itself. I was lucky to do so. The kid who hired on at the same time as I, didn't fare so well. He had been working for a bit over a year. On the jobs before this he had developed a bad habit. (Blade guard or no blade guard.) He would rest his saw on his thigh after a cut, and before he put it down. Yup, you guessed it, less than 2 weeks on the job, and he set his still spinning blade on his thigh. That was the only time in my life that I have ever seen grown men put thier hands in front of thier mouths and scream like little girls. Some sat or fell down with a decided thunk, most were just frozen. All except the boss and I. (I tend to react decisively, constructively, and quickly in times of crisis, then fall into shock once the crisis is over and I have time to think about it. LOL) The boss was there faster than I have ever seen anybody move before, and he had the cut squeezed together very tight before I was even moving. Once I did start moving I moved away, toward my car. I got a roll of duct tape and got back there and started wrapping that leg as tight as I could pull the tape. In the meantime, the boss had yelled at someone enough to bring them out of thier shock and send them running for a phone.No one would look at me square for the rest of the time I was on that job. Some, but not all put thier blade guards back the way they were supposed to be. The boss still had his tied back, and tried to make the kid out to be the bad guy. "Stupid kid". "Just because he was dumb enough to put his saw on his leg doesn't make it unsafe to have the blade guard tied back". "You just have to pay attention to what you are doing." Etc.Some people just have to be 'right' even when they themselves know it is painfully obvious they are not. The last time I saw the kid, (a few years later), he was still limping. Looking back at this whole post, it looks to me like a whole lot of personal horn-blowing. hehehe. Oh well, think what you will. Its the truth and I ain't gunna wipe out so much typing. LOLToot Toot !!! : P
*Luka you have endeared yourself to us left coasting, left bladed, know we're right about saws, worm driving, sons of bitches, forever.joe d
*The configuration of the blade, right or left, generally has to do with the rotation of the motor. Standard motors rotate counterclockwise. The blade is located to utilize the rotation of the motor. On the worm drive, the blade is on the left. The torque of the motor keeps the shoe down and the blade 'bite' against the torque. On the 'non' worm drive the same holds true.
*I don't really buy Steve's suggestion that "standard motors rotate counterclockwise". Portable power tools invariably use universal type motors, which quite simply can be wired to run in either direction, and often come straight out of the box to do so, ala every corded drill made in the last two decades. But the logic behind the motor torque/blade side seems reasonable enough.I got to thinking about this whole left blade-right blade history issue and remembered "Tools of the Trade" ran an article about the history of the portable circular saw several years ago. I dug through my old issues and found it in the Summer 1995 on page 60, "A Short History of the Circular Saw" by Clayton DeKorne.Its an interesting article that describes the creation in the 1920's of both the worm-drive Skil and the Porter-Cable sidewinder, both the first of their genre. I won't bore you with the details. The article never really did give a reason why the Skil worm drive was left bladed. But for the Porter Cable DeKorne states:>"Why the blade on the right? In those days, electric motors were as big as coffee cans, so Porter-Cable wanted to improve the saw's ergonomics (long before the word was trendy). It reversed the blade so the weight of the saw was supported on the work."The article also addresses the east coast/west coast aspect of the different saw preferences. It turns out that Porter-Cable was then based in Syracuse, NY and Skil was based in Chicago. Thus the easier distribution networks afforded by geography contributed to the split.I'm not sure this is the definitive answer to the question, but it sounds good to me.Dick Streffp.s.I also agree whole heartedly with Luka. If a worm-drive is to heavy for your wrists, you're gonna have hellaciously bigger problems on the jobsite! I'll be sure not to invite you over when its time to stand walls.
*Dick, the little byte of history was appreciated.I do happen to be weak. I have serious disk problems that occured during my "I'm stonger than superman" years. But one good thing does surface because of this chronic back problem: I can "feel" when the ergonomics of any situation is not right. And I can safely tell you that holding a saw, aside of the weight, is not ergonomically correct. To luka. I have never worked with the extended table on my power saws, so there is no way to let the saw blade ride on the stock. I almost always let my saw ride above the stock, rarely allowing the entire table to drag completely, thust creating a lot of firction that I must overcome. But your points are well taken and accurate.Regarding the guy that had the habit of placing the saw on his leg: I would have warned him the first time I saw it, and fired him the second time. I would recomend that he change occupations on his way out. I also don't tolerate people pushing the tip of nail guns against themselves in anyway. You can be sure that these "mindless" habits will eventually turn into a workers comp claim, and I like my rates below 8%!I do work without a guard however, and will continue to do so until retirement. Yes I am willing to risk a few stiches or digits. After all, life is a risk that is certainly going to end in death anyways. twenty some years without a cut, and still not worrying about it.But I do worry like hell trying to drive to work every day! NOw that IS risky!blue
*Blue, I think one of the most important things a carpenter (or anyone for that matter) can learn with years of experience is the ability to know their own physical limitations and an inate sense of the least destructive way to use your own body.At 32, I'm getting ready to go back to framing full time. I hope the lessons about the wear and tear on my body I learned as a younger framer in my early and mid-20's will come back to me quickly. I want to make it to at least 45 out in the trenches every day. I've started exercising back at the gym, and that should help alot.I don't even think about working without a guard in place, but that is no guarantee of safety either. I've always instinctively let the worm-drive drop to the side of my leg after cuts. Years ago I had been at the job cutting alot of masonite siding or some such. After one cut when I let the saw down I heard a lot of ripping and tearing and felt a cool breeze on my leg at knee height. I looked down to see a 9" chunk of the pantleg of my overalls shredded and blowing in the breeze. The fine powdery dust of the masonite had fouled the action of the blade guard and caused it to stick wide open. Fortunately, I didn't have a scratch on me, but the overalls went to the rag box. It was a none too subtle wake up call about the potential danger any power tool possesses.I've always wondered what you blade guard free guys do with the saw as it winds down after the cut? It would seem to me that any time saved not fiddling with the guard would be eaten up by waiting to put it down. I've seen the jagged path of more than one saw set on the subfloor with the blade guard stuck open.Dick Streff
*Blue,Good points all, amd well taken as well. Years before I finaly broke my back, I was in a LOT of back pain. I did basicaly the same as you, I started paying attention to the ergonomics of what I was doing. I guess I paid attention to doing it, I just never paid attention to the _fact_ that I was doing it. (Sounds like a riddle there.) i ie, I didn't think about it, or set about determining the ergonomics on purpose, but I paid plenty enough attention to the process itself to figure out that the best way, (for me, at least), to improve my lot was to have better control of the saw itself. The more I had control, the more control I had to change the ergonomics.The first time, and the second and third time I saw that kid put the saw on his leg, I warned him. He ignored me. I was the jobsite putz because I refused to wire my guard back, or remove it. I was taking all the flack, and he was in the clique because he did what they demanded. So it was easy for him to discount anything I said. I even went so far as to mention it to the boss. In one ear and out the other. Like I said, as well, I left that crew as soon as I had a chance.In every job wherein I have been the boss, rule one has always been safety. If anyone displayed such dangerous habits, I would point them out, and then fire the person if they refused to change. I have also always treated my employees even better than I have my tools. (And I baby my tools. I works 'em hard, but intelligently.) Having disk troubles for more than a decade before finaly breaking my back, I also always made the carps and laborers stay aware of what they were possibly doing to thier backs. If something was a super-strain to carry or manipulate, Find a different way, or get help. In my book, no one is a wuss because they wouldn't carry 3 sheets of 1/2 ply by themselves. (All at once, of course.) One last about the back... Those back braces that so many are forced to wear on the job, are worse than nothing at all. They let the back, stomach and groin muscles used for balance, etc, get weak. They cause back problems where there would have been none. It is better to spend a few days or weeks in pain, and taking it easy. At least that way you pay attention to what you are doing, and you train yourself to do things in a way that is not so painful.
*Boy, this got gruesome quick. I'm glad to hear disability taken seriously, I've already met a lot of broken tradesmen.Though i hack a lot less wood than you guys, I really really like the blade-left sidewinder (15-amp Porter-Cable) I finally bought after cutting the cord off the old one (the guard has that gap at the front, you know...). The blade is pretty much in front of my hand and I don't bonk the motor into clamps and such any more. I like seeing the entire blade all the time. I've been cutting rafter tails hanging out of windows and it is a lot easier working one-handed.I just wish the guard wouldn't catch so much, maybe I should wire it back... Kidding! Luka's a smart guy -- the others being stupid sheep is one thing, but stupid AND a bullies is pretty pathetic -- sounds like high school -- no question the boss should've been at least partially liable for the accident.As for the saw falling towards the end of the cut, Luka is exactly right that yes you have to hold it up, one of the reasons I did not get a wormdrive. It is pretty easy to balance on the narrow side of the table, anyway. I've been trying not to use the table much, anyway, so that I can get beveled pocket cuts and such by feel (current project has a bunch of compound cut rafter notches). I think I anticipate and control kickback better this way too.As for the motor rotation -- isn't the motor the same, and you're simply mounting the blade on the opposite end of the armature? The PC twins -- the 743k and 347k -- are suspiciously identical. Note that the numbers are mirror images. Cute huh?The historical Q interests me too. Despite the advantages -- to at least some workers -- blade-left sidewinders are pretty rare! Also -- why the heck didn't they go for a blade size that could cut two 2x's at once?!? (Yes, I know cutting a 2x at 45° was the goal of the 7-1/4".) So close, and yet so far.
*P.S. When I ran this Q by askjeeves.com, I got a list of torture devices and other useful info. Ick.
*Dick, I don't belittle those that work with their guards on. It is interesting to note that I have had only one worker's compensation claim in the last few years, and it was by the only carpenter on the crew that uses a guard! It seems that the guard stuck open when the saw ran over his thumb! I inspected the saw and felt that he was negligent for having a tool that needed maintenance. You do bring up a valid point about what to do with a saw that is winding down. Since I have almost always operated without a guard (more than twenty years now), I have developed an automatic sequence of events, depending on the situation. For the most part, I simply press the side of the blade against the wood, creating an instant braking effect. This approach will work in most applications. The second choice is creating a braking effect by pushing my fingers against the side of the blade. I put one my thumb on the backside pf the blade housing and press with my finger tips near the nut on the blade. It works fine, but tends to wear out my gloves, especially if there are slotted coolong holes that surprise me! I learn fast where the fingers should be! I recently tried a different blade, and got quite a surprise when I reached in there and found slots where they normally aren't! No I wasn't injured, just surprised.A third way is to bite the blade into something. This technique is used a lot on the roof. I bury the blade, in the sheathing to hold it for my next cut. I also bury the blade a lot into framing roof framing members and less frequently into floor joist. You will often see my saw sticking out my saw horses. This is a very effective way to hold the saw stable, and also to kill the blade speed. Care must be taken to keep the blade perpindicular to the grains.I rarely turn the saw upside down anymore. This technique is quite dangerous to other workers in the area as well as to yourself. We tend to keep ourselves spaced out, but this habit will eventually lead to trouble. It was very common when I started however.The last technique is to simply wait for the blade to stop. I do this when I need a moment to daydream.Incidently, I never like to set a saw down, while the blade is in motion. Since that possibility doesn't exist, for an unguarded saw, I just haven't ever deveped the habit. But I'd like to point out two things. #1, it's specifically forbidden in the safety manual. #2, It places the sidewinder intake cooling vent, against the ground therby sucking up dirt and sand from the ground or deck. I learned about the hazards of this practice early in my contracting career when I fried TWO (a porter cable and a milwaukee) saws in one day, by sucking stuff into the saw.That said, I can attest, that those guys that use guards will have a tendency to set a running saw down. It then chases around in a circle and will try to run over the guys foot if the guard is stuck open or shimmed back. I've never seen anyone actualy get hurt from this, but it has disasterous possibilties. For that reason, I feel that guards are more dangerous, than no guards, because sometimes guys shove a wedge into their gurd for specific operations. Since they are not normally used to operating that way (unguarded) they tend to forget, and set the thing down or turn with it. It is the intermittent unguarded users that I worry most about.I'm not advocating the use of an unguarded open-faced saw, but I don't want anyone to legislate to me how I use my tools. This is my trade, my craft, and my life. Don't sit your ass in an office and tell me what is safer for me. If you can tell me to put a guard on my saw, I want all surgeons to have guards on their scalpels. I want all cars banned all people required to carry an umbrella to shade them from the sun. Cops should not be allowed to make traffic stops because of the inherrant danger associated with them.Have you read your safety manual lately?blue
*Couldn't agree more Luca about the back braces.I too watch the kids carefully. I refuse to let them try to overcarry. Each time I see them attempting to carry too big a load, I warn them that I will be charging them for the workers comp rate increase that I know will be coming due to back problems. They take the hint.Probably one of the hardest things to stage and lift is deck plywood. I have developed a very simple, yet technically sophisticated method for staging plywood for roofs, and decks using a ladder. You would be amazed at how easy hoisting the stuff is, if it's at excatly the right height. Of course nothing beats a forklift, or a crane.Just for the record, I picked up (inspected) another wormdrive (skill)yesterday at the big orange box (homo depot). I noticed that the saw has a handle mounted in the center so that the weight can be handled with the left hand. That effectively balances the weight and the right hand is carrying virtually no weight as you pull the trigger. One minor detail however: I almost always am using my left hand for somethng else! If I'm not catching the lumber (I hate to bend over and pick something else that was already at waist level), I'm holding the piece that I need. Rarely do I operate a saw with two hands!I looked at the blade left again, and could never seem useing one, unless I grabbed it for very specific reasons (like mitreing a right hand open stringer). Since I don't do finished stringers, I don't think I'll be investing in one today!blue
*The original porter cable used to make a saw that would cut through two plates standing up! It could cut three and one half inches deep! But it was just too heavy! The 71/4 is agood compromise between heavy enough and too heavy. The worm is on the high end of heavy enough, maybe over the top.blue
*I guess I'm a switch hitter. I've always used a porter-cable righty. a year ago I got the lefty. when cutting rafters or anything that needs both ends cut, you can't beat having a left-blade on the right and a right-blade on the left. I can see the blade on both ends, And it saves carrying a saw back and forth, It's already there. I can also cut a 45* both directions without backing the saw into the cutBrian
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Does anyone have any idea how they started making circular saws with the blade on the "wrong" side in th efirst place? It doesn't make sense to me to me to have to lean over your work.
JD