I need a little help on this one-
I need to demo some plaster and View Imagemetal herringbone lath in a surgical manner. I need to create as little dust as possible and cut through the lath without making sparks, so no cutting wheels. A sawzall through the lath is going to be tricky because we need to save as much of the plaster as possible and I think the sawzall will shake stuff apart. We need to make a series of parallel cuts about 30 feet long, a foot apart.
Also, we are going to be 26 feet up in the air. This is all going on just down the hall from a business office that deals in the billions of dollars, so we can’t disturb the egg heads much.
A quart of home made Maine blackberry jam to the winning entry.
I meditate, I burn candles, I drink green tea, and still I want to smack someone.
Replies
http://www.stanleyfubar.com/
and replaster.
You can send that jam to Montreal LOL!
My first thought would be either off hours or on the weekend. As far as the lath, we cut it with snips. I cant really help you much with the no plaster dust thing though. I dont know that wetting it down would do much good at all.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
I would tell the egg heads welcome to my world and prepare to make omelets.
Your job is just as important to you as their job is to them, regard less of the amount of money.
I would try to keep it as clean as possible but, welcome to construction/demolition.
I worked a job once demolishing a 12" concrete block wall about 20 feet high and 20 yards long in a warehouse. The guys who worked in the warehouse complained that when we used sledge hammers when they were on their breaks, they had trouble hearing their euchre bids! (The contractor wanted to save the blocks to re-use them, so we had to drop them carefully off the scaffold onto pads made of about 20 layers of corrugated cardboard! (I always wondered about re-using those blocks--how many were slightly cracked and the cracks wouldn't be noticed until they had been laid up into a new wall! We also had to sift through the gravel roof ballast when we shoveled it down a chute to take nails out of it because the contractor wanted to use the gravel on his driveway!)
For the question at hand, would something like a Roto-zip work? Or maybe even a cordless circular saw with a very fine toothed blade.
Someone posted these in a tool thread. I think it might be the tool for the job.
http://www.kett-tool.com/product.php?cat_name=saws
Check out the videos w/vacuum atachments. Contact them and see if they have a blade suggestion.
Jammin', I'm Jammin'...
Mike
Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.
I need to create as little dust as possible and cut through the lath without making sparks,
We need to make a series of parallel cuts about 30 feet long, a foot apart.
Also, we are going to be 26 feet up in the air. This is all going on just down the hall from a business office that deals in the billions of dollars, so we can't disturb the egg heads much.
Holy cats@! This reads like a joke you're playing on us.
Here's what I'd do though... If you use a variable speed angle grinder, with a 4 1/2" diamond wheel, with the continuous rim, at the low end like 3500rpm, and it won't create nearly the dust and almost NO sparks.
I've done this many times.
Also, tape the hose of your vac to the thing, just up to the guard and it will pick up 9-% of the dust.
Really!
Now, I'm so confident, I'll email you my address.
And, if it doesn't work for you--then I'll trade you 1 qt of Waters' backyard bees blackberry blossom HONEY for your qt of jam!
How's that!?
Record a street jackhammer and play it outside with a large amp and some guys in yellow hard hats standing around some street stands. They won't notice your noise. If your guys are big with cut off tee shirts, the eggheads won't complain to them, either.
I am with MSA1, nights/off hours or weekends. Poly off the area you are working in and put it under negative pressure. Use a real HEPA that actually draws some air. I like the idea of the angle grinder with the diamond wheel as well with a vacuum semi attached. Shouldn't be too difficult.
Jeb
What's the concern with sparks? It shouldn't be in an explosive evro. Just fire risk?
How much time do you have is this suppose to be a 1 day in and out?
Trust me I've got lots of experience in these sorts of restraints, with hospitals, science labs, and federal buildings. One of the most resent challenges was dismantling entire hallway above ceiling mech. It required a billjax scaffold hall way, to keep hall open. Draping entire thing with visqueen, sealing it tight, than 3/4' ply on out side sides of scaffold to contain any debris between hallway walls and scaffold sides. Than entire top of scaffold was decked solid screwed down to scaffold picks on top of plastic and multiple negative air machines.
If you can leave scaffold in place your best bet is to build a platform on top and full temporary enclosure than shrouded in plastic with negative air machines. Pretty much treat it as an abatement containment.
I watched a full-scale, complete demo, union abatement crew and considering all the prep they need to do to seal off, gear they have to try and work in and everything has to be literally washed than double bagged and passed through a containment shower It was amazing. Consider one guy has to stay on one side of the shower all day just to pass extra tools into containment and receive and tag bagged debris through the shower they actually put the regular messy demo crew to shame.
Lots of times we've had to build full scale metal stud drywall wall partitions hallway length floor to deck and if you can do this that's very effective.
No matter what no single vacuum tool is going to be sufficient. Your best bet is an enclosure even if it’s only plastic. Believe it or not they do make a fire retardant static free visquen. Keep one guy on fire watch; get a hot work permit from the building security or maintenance dept. Use negative air machines. A diamond blade on metal plaster lath is really the only surgical method. You could just score plaster, bust one access hole to wiggle lath free from plaster than snip lath. Bottom line metal lath plaster with precision always sucks and takes some finagling.
Oh you could use castors on scaffold, one section tower with a plywood platform that will butt tight to wall and three constructed sides with roof too. Seal edges, mount neg air machines underneath platform floor. Put a trap door in and drape plastic to floor around outer scaffold edges.
These types of jobs always require twice the amount of prep than actual work involved.
I am wondering if cement siding snips might work. I've never used them, nor have I ever demoed diamond lath plaster, so it's just a wild idea, but thought I'd throw it out.
As long as it's plaster and not mortar on metal lath I've had good luck using lennox plaster cutting blades. Still makes a mess though. Like the others said, the prep work (plastic, temp partitions, negative air pressure etc) is more work than the actual cut.
Fein makes a tool called a Super Cut.
It was described to me as a Multimaster on steroids.
I've never used one, but it may be just the ticket for your job,,,, assuming the customer wants to pay for the blades.
Harry
Two suggestions:
1a. Pick up a clear plastic file box from Staples. Drill a 3/4" hole in the side, close to the lip, and feed the arbor of a 4 1/2" angle grinder through it. This way the grinder stays outside of the box and away from dust.
or
1b. Same box type. Drill a 2 1/2" hole through the floor of the box. Feed the same grinder through the hole so that the fan intake is outside the box. Be sure to wrap the barrel of the grinder with duct tape first. This way, after you pass the grinder through the hole you can apply spray foam to seal the hole around the grinder.
1a. & 1b. Next, snap a grind-line on the wall, apply the box over the line and start grinding. All (most) of the dust will stay inside the box. If you want to also attach a hose from a wet/dry vac, cool.
2. Same concept but use a jigsaw with a rough-cut blade. Here, you could have the whole jigsaw within the box. The hole in the short side of the box is for your hand. Again, you could seal the hole (around your wrist) with spray foam if you wear a rubber glove.
I like #2 best because it starts with creating less dust. You'll just go through a lot of blades, but that's what the job requires!
Frankie
Flay your Suffolk bought-this-morning sole with organic hand-cracked pepper and blasted salt.
Thrill each side for four minutes at torchmark haut. Interrogate a lemon.
Embarrass any tough roots from the samphire. Then bamboozle till it's al dente with that certain je ne sais quoi.
Arabella Weir as Minty Marchmont - Posh Nosh
First off, thanks for all the replies. I'll answer a few questions first-
No, there isn't an explosion hazard, but there are a lot of people who are afraid of fires. So, sparks would be really bad. You and I know that the fire danger is low and can be dealt with, but people walking by see showers of sparks and they start to panic. Also, noise is going to be an issue.
After talking with the project manager, the cuts that we need to make are closer to 50 feet long. And we need to make two. With shears, how long do you think ths would take?
The plan is to use a small circ saw to score the plaster, and then use shears to cut the diamond lath. The circ saw has a dust collection system.
Anything I am missing?I meditate, I burn candles, I drink green tea, and still I want to smack someone.
I have a small wet saw, I might be tempted to try. Or, they do make metal cutting saw blades for circular saws, and I would try one of those.
Failing that the enclosures, made from modified clear plastic storage boxes work well.
You get one of the boxes, and cut a hole in the side for the cord, a couple of 4 or 5-inch holes, that you can tape gauntleted gloves into and a 2 or 2-1/2-inch hole for a shop vac hose. Your making a version of a clean box, but without a bottom.
You put the grinder inside the box, and a helper holds it against the wall as you move forward, and make the cut. I would be tempted to try using a side grinder with a cutoff wheel inside the enclosure. There would still be sparks, but if they are contained, they might not scare people.
I might even paint most of a plastic box, or build a plywood box with a lexan view port, so they wouldn't see the sparks, but you could still see to make the cut.
The plan is to use a small circ saw to score the plaster, and then use shears to cut the diamond lath. The circ saw has a dust collection system.
If by shears you mean snips of some sort, the kerf from a saw blade won't be wide enough to get the blades in.
Maybe you can bust the plaster off the mesh and then cut it though.
My experience has been none of this type stuff cuts as easily as it does when you have a piece in your hand.
Joe H
Won't see sparks through black poly containment.
I still say if guys down the hall carry enough pocket change to buy your contract out on the spot a complete neg air containment is the only way to go.
The ideas of a grinder in a box are fine except you still have to get the cut up chunks of debris off the wall without creating a crumbling mess and dust. One hand cupped against the wall trying to catch every little piece.
Assuming it's true that other trades will have to work in the same spot after you cut the plaster out I'd talk the G.C. into footing the bill or splitting among the trades a full temporary wall partition just wide enough to work tight against the wall for the duration of all work.
Sorry for the quick post earlier- Wife is at a meeting leaving me with our two boys (both under three yrs. old) at dinner time. Some things cannot wait.
The containment system is going to consist of shutting the doors to the room, and multiple vacuum cleaners attached to tools. The idea is to cut a strip out of the plaster a foot wide, smash the plaster off the lath, and then use the snips to cut the lath. Then, we get to do our job of removing what needs to be removed.
I wish I could tell you all more, but I did have to sign a confidentiality agreement. As long as I don't tell you where I am working, what I am doing, what we are removing, where it is going, or when this is all happening, I am free to divulge as much information as I want.
(Hint- BIG pieces of art on the move.)I meditate, I burn candles, I drink green tea, and still I want to smack someone.
We have done installs like this before...dust wall is a must, especially in a facility w/ forced air heating/cooling. The dust goes all around, but without something to slow it down, things can get out of hand. Two HEPA Festool vacs with negative air pressure and a dustwall got it done for us in a space that had other sculpture and art nearby. Variable speed grinder is the best...I'm gonna give the plastic box thing a swing next time.
There is a circular saw and blade made for cutting cement board. That might work on the plaster.I would try to remove the plaster first, then the lath. I would make multiple cuts in the plaster, using some sort of vacuum system.Then tape a plaster collection gizmo underneath the cuts, about 1 or 2" down. On small cuts I use a file folder. This will need something bigger, like plastic formed into a trough. After the cuts have been made, pry off the plaster with a flat pry bar. Get started, then slide the pry bar between the plaster and lath. It should fall into the trough.Then use some type of snips to cut the lath.I'm not sure I follow how big of an area the plaster is being removed from. Is it two small strips? Or big area?
> like plastic formed into a troughA section of plastic roof gutter might do the trick.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith
i'd be willing to bet sucking up sparks into any kind of vacuum is more of a fire hazard than just cutiing with a grinder. as for vibration, take some mesh tape, the stuff that stucco guys use, ,glue it on the wall where your cut will be, snap a line and cut.
I'm way impressed with those ideas, think I'd try 1.b first, Jig saw and straight don't seem to go together for me.
Joe H
I can't help but wonder the obvious--lead paint?
Take it back, take it back! Mike
Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.
So who gets the jamb or is it portioned out now?
Cut up some plywood into 24 inch wide strips, screw them to the wall both outside and inside the cut lines. Cut through the plywood into the plaster and lath. That should contain both sparks and most of the dust and grit. If all goes well, you should be able to remove the plywood with the paster and lath attached. Obviously, if you can get the right blade to attach to a saw with good dust control, that will help as well. Does Festool make a metal cutting blade?
Edited 2/6/2009 11:43 am ET by smslaw
"This is all going on just down the hall from a business office that deals in the billions of dollars"
Probably 'millions' now ...
Jeff
No, it's still billions. Only with red ink.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith