This post has two parts:
1. Foam roof system transition to composite shingles.
I have a combination of roofing types on this house. On the flat part of the roof is polyurethane foam and on the pitched part of the roof are composite/asphalt shingles (I don’t know enough about this to say whether they are single tab or three or even what that means). There are a couple of areas where the two systems meet. The largest/longest section where the systems meet whoever last did the roof put a thick band (approx. 3 – 4 inches wide) of what looks like tar at the base of the shingles. The roof pitch is steep until that point when it is probably 2 in 12 and then becomes flat.
I’ve got evidence of a leak (fortunately the room is empty and floor covering has been removed because I am installing new flooring) and I suspect the water is entering at the junction of the two roofing systems. This suspicion is based upon my observation that it is nearly immediately below where the two systems meet. However, in the field of comp shingles above (approx. 4 feet above) this junction there are places where someone painted that same tar-like substance on seams between shingles.
What is the appropriate way to effect the transition between the roofing systems? Is it possible that the problem is improperly installed shingles? Is it possible to add shingles in the field? If so, how is it done?
2. Leak detection.
Any suggestions regarding how to go about detecting the source of the above-described leak? I plan to open up the attic space (no inside access – I have to remove the siding at a gabled end) to check for water damage/traces this weekend. Is there anything for which I should be looking? What does it mean if it looks like water has intruded at the nail penetrations?
Conclusion: Thank you for reading this post I realize that the questions seek a lot of detail and are compound in nature. If your advice is to have a roofer inspect this, please know that I have had difficulty finding a roofer who will look at a residential installation of a foam roof. In addition, many residential roofers refuse to work with foam roofs. Finally, I’ve found that many roofers who work with foam roofing systems do so primarily on commercial jobs and either don’t want to work on residential at all (I am in California where residential construction is more likely to result in litigation than commercial) or my roof is just too small to warrant attention.
Replies
One reason roofers do not want to work on foam roofs is because the majority of us do not regard foam as a viable roofing material. It is highly prone to failure. most foam applicators i hav eknown got into the game by purchasing equiopment and more or less of a franchise, getting schooled by the supplier in application and sales, but had NO previous experience at actual roofing and the principles involved. I have seen foam 'roofs' begin to leak within three years and degrade from there with no support from the installers of the product. These shills have got great "tail-light" warantees.
The fact that this is a married system with shingles increases your odds of failure.
There are details lacking in your information, but I can surmise some things based on what I hear now and my experience. I will assume this is an older house, perhaps twenty or thirty years at least. I will then assume that - as normally happens - the flat roof started leaking first as it aged. So the owners had the foam applied over the existing BUR roof as one of the least expensive solutions. It worked for awhile, but then it began to degrade.
By then, the asphalt shingle roof began to wear out and the water finding a wauy into minor bad spots was getting in under the foam and leaking. so the homeowner applied some tar to try to stop it, on both the shingles and the joint. If the joint was formed in the way I am anticipating, over the shingles, it was wrong, and that is why tar was also placed there - but that was a compounding of the error, because some tar products can eat away at the foam and make things worse. The volatile oils in tars and the nature of the foam are often incompatable with one another and that is another reason why many roofers avoid it. They want to sidestep the liabilities connected with a failure prone product.
Pictures would be great, if you have access to a digital camera. try to keep file size down to a hundred or so and use the "attachements" button in the reply window. It would help define this better. But I believe that what you are going to need is a new roof. Since you have both flat and pitched roofs combined, I am going to caution you to seek a roofer and not a shingle layer, or other "specialist". You want someone who knows all aspects of roofing to be able to provide a whole package or you will end up with the flat guy pointing fingers at the shingle guy and vise versa.
Your specific Q about how different pitches should meet and be dealt with is that the plies of the flat roof should extend at least 18" and often four feet up under the shingles. sometimes there is also need for a metal reinforcing under those, occasionally it can be applied over them, and other times no metal is needed.
But the flat roof material ALWAYS goes up the slope first, then the shingles are laid down over it. That way, water is always directed downhill and no up-facing traps are formed. The only proper way to have foamed this roof, even if foam were a decent choice of materials, since they were going over an old, was to take it all the way to the ridge for a single continous ply.
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Thank you for the detailed response and for your willingness to look more closely at this. I will post pics on Saturday. Fair warning - it is a strange roof (I'll try to provide narrative description and measurements when I post the photos).
You're on track regarding the age. The house was built in 1964. There is evidence of past roof leaks in the flat roofed area (evidence of water having come out of the walls onto the subfloor) but the foam seems to have solved the problem (evidenced by the fact that before I moved in the seller replaced all of the carpet and as I've torn it out I can see that the tack strips show no evidence of water staining or damage). I do not know how long the foam has been on the roof. About a year ago I had a person out from a large roofing company in my area that does foam roofs as well as the more typical shingle and BUR (I think they use different teams to do the various installations so I'm not sure they fit your idea of the type of roofer I'd need). That company's records did not reflect that it installed this foam but their guy's eval was that based on installation technique the foam was probably more than fifteen years old, he also said the foam was in excellent shape and did not need anything done to it. He did look askance at the junction area that I think may be posing a problem now and was critical of the asphalt shingle installation (you'll see some of the oddities in the pictures).
The asphalt shingles were installed about 4.5-5 years ago (when I was purchasing the house I checked the records at the building department and a permit had been pulled). I am singularly unimpressed by the roofing company that did the job - when I called to find out about their warranty the receptionist/scheduler told me it only goes with the owner of the property at the time they did the work (I know that there are other legal bases on which they can be made to take responsibility for their work, I'm more interested in solving the problem than teaching them a lesson). Noone has returned my call to discuss this matter substantively. I think this indicates an unwillingness to stand behind their work - your point about tail-light warranties.
Thanks again for your response.
It will be interesting to see the photos. i am also interested in what the evaluator had to say when he "looked askance" at that junction.
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I'm trying to attach the pics and am hoping that this is successful. I took pictures of the junction between the two roofing systems. What I found when I got into the attic space was this. The foam roof was installed when there was a shake roof on the pitched part. The shake was replaced for the first time with this set of shingles. There is a black membrane running about 18" up the pitched part. I believe the water is getting in at the junction, running down the membrane and getting into the house where the membrane ends.
The question is: What do I do to seal the junction?
More pictures.
ahhh... pictures????
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
I know, still trying to get this attachment feature to work.
what is it telling you???
attach files
browse
(select picture)
open
upload
(wait for upload to finish)
(wait some more)
look for verivication that upload is complete
(pic listed at the top the window in red)
repeat process as many time as you like
or
hit the done tab
and then
post
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
http://photos.yahoo.com/tartanhouse.
Try this link I could not get the pictures to upload. Plus they are pretty big.
Thank you,
Rachel
If they're pretty big that may be the reason that they wouldn't up load...
They timed out...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
This is as large as they were...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Thank you for posting the pictures. I had followed the procedure you described. Perhaps did not wait long enough before going on to the next picture and so was unsuccessful.
Glad to have helped.......
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
I've been away for a few days and just getting to see these.
That Imerc fellah is pretty handy, isn't he?
Thanks IMERC
Rachel, I am looking askance at the gobs of gumbo there too.
It is really confusing why it was doine that way so I have to make some guesses. Normally, the membrane of a flat roof should extend a good 18" up under the shingles. I can't tell whether this was the condition the shingle layers were wsorking with or if they were trying to somehow compensate for a shortage in the foam with that bit of tar strip, but there was some room showing of sloped roof below the shingles where they could have run another course or two of shingle out over the foam. I also see no evidence that they used a starteer strip under the first course of shingle. Your pictures also show some sloppy alignment work with some courses maybe only 4.25" exposure and some closer to 6". the close up of the bottom of the valley shows a shortcutt taken in shingle pacement there too, that avoids neatly cutting shingles into the valley. If they were that short of time for such a criticalelement as a valley on surface, I am betting they used no sealant under the valley too.
All of this goes to say that these shingle layers had a slopy attitude. geneerally, when there are exposed evidences of sloppiness, there are other hidden sloppy practices in place.
One common shortcut for hacks liker that is leaving the tarpaper underlayment out from under the shingles. Underlayment is especially imporrtant with roofs having such a slight pitch as yours and under this kind of shingle - a laminated architechtural composition shingle.
If I were crawling around on your roof, I would first be looking to see whether they had an underlayment in place and whether it were lapped over the foam roof. I believe it is missing.
The instances I can think of for using spreadable emulsified tar like your pictures show, would be primarily to spread it and then lay the shingles in it, so it would never show in the first place. That, and the fact that there are butt joints buttered over on up the roof further, suggest to me that this was all done after the shingles were laid and then a leak appeared. I can picture them saying, "Whoops, I guess we should have used that tarpaperr after all, now we'll have top go back and butter up"
Lonag and short of it - is that someplace in the shingle portion, there is a falw in a shingle or the placement of it that is letting water in, and that water is fionding a way into the house, most likely at the break between roofs by running under the foam there. A skillesd roofer can find it. others could possibly do more dmage just by looking for it.
I am not letting the foam guys off the hook either though. This job is certainly better than most foam roofs I have seen but I see that there is signs of water puddling on it, situation they created. Also, you have wall junctions where shingles meet a verticle wall. It would appear that the foam was sprayed out over the original shingles. That left a situation for the new shingles that was not easy to deal with. had they cut back the foam to properly replace the flashing, they might have damaged the flat roof. So they made the choice of just buttering under and over the shingles there and hoping for the best. Both comnpanies are at fault for doing the easiest method for them at the time of their process instead of doing it totally right and working with each other. This goes back to one of my first comments about finding one company that can do the whole job totally right so they are not pointing fingers back and forth at each other.
I'm afraid I haven't helped much, but thanks for the pictures to analyse
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Piffin -
Thanks for the analysis. There is tarpaper under the shingles on the lower pitched roof. No way to know on the steeper part at this time but I suspect that even if there is, it is not lapped correctly.
I'd like to add shingles to cover the junction. The bottom edge of the shingles is practically glued down (stuck to the tar?). Is it bad to pry up that bottom edge? I realize that your advice is to get a roofer to look at this but, not being acquainted with one who is reputable and after being burned a few times in my choices I am wary of going that route before I have exhausted all possible remedies that I can effect myself.
Thanks again for the time you've spent thinking about my roof.
- Rachel
I'm a little leary of trying to giver you too much advice because I am not there to see all the details and don't know your skills. it is possible you can do more damage than you fix, and as you have already learned, there is a certain amount of incompatability between systems and methods...
The glued down bottom layer could be the worst of the problem if there is tarpaper under the shingles. You could have a situatiopn where water finds a way intto the shingles abover, and runs down the tarpaper under until it hits that glued lapp where it cannot run out on top of the foam roof. Being trapped there, it has no choic but to find a way to get into the house.
With that theory, you might be able to dealwith this by freeing up that seal. The way to do this is to slide a flat prybar ( Stanley Wonderbar ) up under the shingles without doing any harm to shingle or to foam. A cold morning before sun hits it is best. You would not necessarily need to get all of it, just maybe six inches every couple of feet. But you would need to keep it from re-sealing by sliding wax paper or something back up under where the prybar went.
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Piffin,
Hard for me to comment on this one because it's not done up here and I've never seen such an installation.
But.........one would have to have some type of transition or better yet some type of separation/expansion joint between the two entirely different roofs. The very shape of the foam against the shingle portion would lend itself very well to leaks migrating up as well as down along the junction. Any movement between the two roof types would tend to invite leaks. As the temperature changes between daytime highs and night lows, the adhesive qualities of the foam would tend to hold the shingles and a gap would form behind the shingle.
The ponding by itself would not be much of a concern other than it could be indicative of the rest of the quality one would expect to find on this job.
Like I said this is a new one for me but I see a lot that could easily go wrong.
Gabe
As you point out, the great problwem with transitions between shingles and this foam roof is the hard place to get the two different types of roofs and roofers to get along.
The primary way most roofs shed water is to keep all lapps facing downhill to provide a drainage plane. flashings and order of placement is important.
With foam roofs, the primary dependence is on the fact that the poly foam is so darned sticky that it will seal well to anything that is clean, more or less. And foam itself has minimal thermal expansion effects.
So foam applicators tend to ignore flashings in general and just spray right over them, which will hide flaws and trap water entering from other locations.
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I would have never considered using foam as a roofing material because I use so much of it that I know most of it's properties. Is this type of roof common in your area?
When the foam spray first hits the surface, it forms an initial skin and then expands from this point. The surface of a typical asphalt shingle is made up of granular and as such they are easily dislodged. So if the shingles are sprayed with the foam directly, that action by itself would dislodge the granular from the base shingle and you could have failure between the two products.
Interesting problem.
Gabe
I saw these foam roofs in Florida.. Most all of them failed after only a year or two....
Finding leaks in them was a nightmare...
Walking on them wasn't too good of plan.. Eventually they were replaced with hot mop or something else...
BTW... Seemed as though everything in the world tunneled in to them or hauled away chunks of it for nesting material... Birds were especially destructive...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
I was asked to bid a replacement of one. It started out as a "repair" on a fourty square 2/12 pitch BUR gravel that had been foamed over only five years before. the edges had shrunk back so bad, they were peeling the tarpaper moopped stripping away from the gravel gaurd metal. Most of the fascia was rotting and some soffit peeling down.
Worst of it was that they'd had no leaks they knew of before the foam application. But the roof was twenty years old so they knew it was coming and they got sold from a traveling applicator with a "very good price"
That price diodn't look so good when i told them the rot repair would cost mosre than the foam roof did, plus the tear off and the new gravel BUR. They screamed and I went on about my busimess. Don't know what ever happened to it eventually, but I saw somebody up there painting it the next year. Cheap patch on a cheap job. Some people walk around bent over.
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Saw enough of them with so many "problems" that I always figured that they weren't worth the aggrivation at any price....
I was never succesful at repairing one... after awhile you can't help but think it is't possible...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
I don't think they are "common" anywhere, because they have a tendency to develope a reputation - a bad one. Then the appliocator has to move on.
UV rays dry them to tiny cracking that starts letting water in various fisures. Sometimes it shrinks back at opennings, junctions, and edges, for reasons similar to wjhat you mention with the shingle granules.
Applicators sweep or wash the roof they intend to apply it to, which sometimes leaves puddles of water trapped under upon application.
For the age of this roof, Rachels looks amazingly good, though I can't see it well enough to spot any tiny flaws.
If her foam guy has seen it and it passed muster with him, what can I say? The shingle job was applied after the foam and it is definitely sloppy, almost deliberately so.
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I have to apologize for not having looked at the pictures that closely or the sequence of installation.
At first glance it appeared that the foam was sprayed over the shingles but obviously it's the reverse.
That is one sloppy shingle installation.
The foam should have been cut back at the very least and a proper transition installed. To us cold patch to fill in all the gaps is insane and will surely fail as it has. Also as you pointed out, the shingle spacing is irregular and it's little wonder that the water is migrating into the house.
I had a real close look at the foam and I think that it will need attention soon as well.
I hate seeing work like that. People should enjoy their homes and not have to protect themselves from fly by night yahoos.
Gabe
Gabe-
I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area where we don't have the same issues with cold, snow, ice, etc. as folks in the areas where you and Piffin are located. We usually see foam roofs on commercial structures. However they have a modest number of adherents in the residential retrofit arena because of the number of homes built in the late fifties and sixties with flat roofs (one of the better known developers was a guy by the name of Eichler who was also fond of radient floor heat which, because of the type of pipe he used in the slab makes his homes prone to slab leaks too - fortunately my house isn't an Eichler so I'm only dealing with the upper problem).
My house is atypical in that the original design had the combination of pitched and flat roof parts. It is typical in that the part of the house under the flat roof is an open beam ceiling and I've got two walls that are nearly all glass. So, most people when they go to replace the original tar and gravel that is leaking at every possible point (there is evidence in my hall that the water must have been sheeting down the entire wall), decide to gain a little insulation and go with the foam. I'm guessing that is what the owners of my home who chose foam were thinking because the garage which is lower than the rest of the house and adjoins only one wall is still tar and gravel.
I figure the foam on mine is due for (at least) a recoat in the next year or two. I'm hoping that at that point, the areas where ponding occurs (I know that it is not supposed to sit for more than 48 hours - at least that's what the experts will testify) can be corrected. In the meantime, I'm keeping a close eye on the things that can indicate there is a moisture issue even if water or staining is not observed (peeling/bubbling/cracking/sagging paint, failing siding, punky drywall, examining any exposed framing for evidence of water, etc. - 'tho I've not gone so far as to pick up a moisture meter).
Thanks for your comments. I do enjoy my home despite these issues - they just seem to come with the territory of homeownership regardless of whether one buys an existing home or new construction. Although, I agree with you that ideally they would not.
- Rachel
Have you considered an EPDM (ethylene-propylene-diene monomer) roofing system for your flat roof instead of tar/gravel or the foam?
With regards to finding leaks in roofs I can only relate our proceedures.
As you can imagine, in commercial when we have a leak it can be fustrating to find when you have a 100,000 sq. ft roof and no real clue as to the location of the originating leak. We know where it's coming in but not where the leak in the membrane is located.
First we do a full visual inspection of the roof in the hope of finding an obvious culprit.
If that fails, we have to look at the roof elevations and slopes. A large roof is normally divided into several sections that drain to each their own drains.
We will flood one area at a time and see if we can minimize the probable area. When we find the area that is leaking, we will open the roof membrane and locate the cause and do the required repairs.
You can do the same by running a water hose on one part of the roof one day and then another part the next day and so on.
By the photos that you supplied, I would strongly suggest that you look at the cold patch joint between the foam and shingles as being your first area of inspection. Only run the hose over the bottom shingles first before moving to another area.
Another possibility that comes to mind is in the installation of the shingles, even if they were installed with a pneumatic gun, the steady walking on the transition area by the workers would be enough to separate the foam from the edge of the plywood roof sheating.
Hope you get the source of the leak and you do so without undue expense.
Gabe
Thanks for the sentiment and information.
I am fairly certain that what you're referring to as the cold patch joint is the culprit. Given what had been done previously and the fact that we were due for (and did get) a big rain storm last night I put some wet patch over the existing material along that joint. With the amount of water that was already in there it is hard to tell whether it made a difference or not. I think the next storm will tell.
On a positive note regarding the roofing company that did the tab shingle roof: The owner did finally call me back. He inspected the roof today and indicated that he will honor the warranty on the roof. Accordingly, he will be working on coming up with a more permanent solution for the junction between the shingles and foam and will join in the chase for the source of the leak if the severity of the leak is undiminished by my stop-gap solution. We went over the rest of the roof and identified other areas of vulnerability that he will shore up - one of which he identified as being an area that had been actively leaking before he came in to do the shingle roof.
For what it is worth, he too said that the buttering over of the junction between the tabs and that the use of wet patch (which, as you can see from the pictures was probably what was there before) for the cold joint was not the approach he would have taken and speculated that the previous owner (for whom he does a lot of roof maintenance and installation for commercial properties) had gone up there himself when the thing started leaking. Finally, we discussed maintenance of the foam system. He suggested that with appropriate maintenance, that I can do myself, it can go another 4-5 years.
Regarding EPDM, I'm not familiar with that but I assume it is one of those torch-down roof coverings. Is there a particular reason you like that system instead of the others of that variety?
EPDM is like a big swimming pool rubber liner. It's layed down over the roof and weighted down. The edges are either rolled up over a parapet or down over the edge and nailed to the underside of a lip.
http://www.lexcan.com/roofing_systems_and_products/EPDM/index.php
This link is to a roofing group and helps to describe the product and installation.
Gabe
I looked at the website and the information. As an installation is there a particular advantage to the EPDM over the similar torch-down products? What I'm wondering is: Is it easier to install correctly so there is less likelihood of later failure due to deficiencies in installation? Is it that it is less messy and less of a pain in the neck to install because heat is not required for the install? Is it more durable to traffic?
After looking at the website I'm wondering whether EPDM is significantly more expensive than the torch-down products and whether I'd b able to find a roofer experienced in using EPDM here in litigious California who would be willing to use it in a residential installation. In any event, thanks for the product tip, I will keep it in mind as I ponder my roof issue over the next couple of years.
As an installation is there a particular advantage to the EPDM over the similar torch-down products? (It's less prone to failure and is much easier to install properly.)
What I'm wondering is: Is it easier to install correctly so there is less likelihood of later failure due to deficiencies in installation? (Yes and althought it's a stronger it's also more flexable.)
Is it that it is less messy and less of a pain in the neck to install because heat is not required for the install? Is it more durable to traffic? (yes it's safer to install because you don't torch the neighbourhood to install it and will not crack with expansion during extreme temperature changes.)
Actually, you would have manufacturers/installers in your State, just call up a few commercial roofers and they should be able to give you some options to consider.
It's not the answer to every flat roof application but it's the top choice on commercial flat roofs and for smaller roofs such as yours, it would be only one sheet in size with no seams to leak.
You've got time before you have to make up your mind so give it a search.
Gabe
Veddy interesting.....never seen a foam roof...seen lots of UV deteriorated foam around pipe penetrations in foundation walls...how do they keep the foam on the roof from doing the same thing ? ...
Seems to me sooner or later the foam will have to go...EPDM is good if the roof layout is such that you don't get too many seams (in a hot climate the stuff seems to expand enough that sooner or later it breaks the adhesive bond at the joints)
Burn down is good if the torch man knows what he's doing...
Standing seam metal (terne or copper) also very nice, very pricey...
If it were my house I'd be scraping off the tar, using a shingle ripper to slide out the nails a course or so up, sliding in some Ice dam (or/and some flashing) that laps down over the foam, & saving my money until I found a roofer I trusted to redo the whole roof in one of the above mentioned systems. Seems to me the hardest part of the fix is to avoid damging the foam too much while you're up there working...
(I do wonder about that foam covered parapet wall...what's up with that....)
Re. deterioration: Coatings - 2 layers, the top being reflective white (as on my roof) or aluminum (which is supposed to hold up better). Since my roof was installed they've determined that the granuals are unnecessary. [I've learned so much about these things since buying this house.]
Re. foam on the parapet wall: Preferred installation in that you end up with a similar result (theoretically) as taking the rubber-type installations that go right up and over the top of the parapet. The drawback to foam - as I think someone (Piffin?) mentioned early in this string - is that over time the bond between it and the metal flashing is compromised. Thus, constant maintenance in the form of patching and frequent recoating is necessary. Patching is done with mesh and the coating product(s) unless the maintenance area is really small in which case you're painting/puttying the coating stuff into small pits and fissures. Areas where ponding occurs require more frequent recoating.
All in all - not an ideal roof covering.
EPDM is a 40 year rubber rof with almost not maintanence. Torch dow modified bitumens are a ten year roof unless you do extensicve maintanence ance then you might get 25 years ou of it.
Torch don is more dangerous for the house. A lot of fires result from torch jobs.
Gabe mentioned EPDFM as a ballasted system - which is more common in industrial work such as he does. on smaller josbs like residential, it is more commonly adjhered with comntact cement.
WEPDM is slightly more expensive than torch downs but a better value in terms of copst per square foot per year of life expectancy.
If it is damaged from abuse, it is easy to repair
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Piffin -
What constitutes "abuse"? A year after I moved into this place my chimney sweep (whose also owns a gourmet butcher shop) wanted to know when I was having a party on my roof because the view toward the SF Bay is so great.
Seems to me that the adhesive installation for EPDM is logical for a smaller retro-fit installation - even without considering issue of whether the walls and roof structure can handle the additional weight of the ballast.
FYI, the shingle guy is inclined to put a wide piece of metal flashing in under the shingles (not sure yet which course) and have it overlap the foam to cover the junction. Easy to accomplish on the horizontal sections. What remains as a challenge are the vertical and sloped sections and where they join the horizontal.
Regards.
- Rachel
Abuse -
Like tearing off the shingles and replacing them with no attemprt to protect it.
dancing on it in high heels
using it for a location to split firewood
I can walk over an EPDM roof with soft shoes every day for 30 years with no damage, but generally when a wal-on is planned like a balcony, I install sleepers on a cushioning slip sheet and decking surface like IPE over that. Searching the archives here under EPDM will likely yield you a few threads with photos from some I have done.
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it can be fustrating to find when you have a 100,000 sq. ft roof and no real clue as to the location of the originating leak
Have you ever tried (or are you familiar with) infrared imaging to find the leaks. My son's stepfather does that. He can detect exactly where the water is between the layers. I don't have a lot of info other than that, but he has more work than he wants.
Have you ever tried (or are you familiar with) infrared imaging to find the leaks.
At one time or another I have seen or tried just about every new technique in the book. The trouble is more often than not the leak is nothing more than a thin line that weaves and dodges along the easiest path to a small hole or gap in the roofing and wouldn't be caught with any type of thermal imaging equipment.
I have a buddy of mine that clears government installations of explosives loss or buried since WW1 to recently. As a result I get to bring some rather sophisticated equipment home to play with at work.
So I can tell you with some authority, some times it just takes time and patience to find a leak.
Gabe
Edited 10/26/2004 6:14 pm ET by GABE_MARTEL
Thank you, again. I appreciate your concerns regarding advice giving and unfamiliarity with the situation and my skills. I also appreciate the comments from Gabe Martel. All help me to figure a solution - or, worst case, have an intelligent discussion with a pro.
As a homeowner who prefers to do the work myself I am very grateful for all of the pros and experienced amateurs who are willing to weigh in with advice and opinions.
Thanks again to all who contributed on this string and Piffin in particular.