I just had a roof put on the house. I had selected the roofer a while back and we had discussed basic prices back then, but when it came time to do the roof we just got rolling.
It’s mostly a 12/12 roof some 6/12 dormers, 45 squares total, 120′ of valley, 100′ of ridge, 50 year architectural shingle (4 bundles / sq instead of the normal 3 bundles / sq). The shingle cost was $66/sq. I also have two dormers so they had to contend with the flashing around that.
So I’m just trying to get a feel for if this cost is reasonable or not. I normally don’t post asking for this kind of info, but I just need a handful of responses that say “reasonable” , “high”, etc.
I was here during the job and I believe it was about 100 man hours (basically 3 days, 4 guys).
Thanks -MERC
Replies
Another thing. He supplied the tar paper and Ice and Water shield for the valleys, but the framers installed it.
MERC
Last estimate I got for a 5/12 walk on reroof with less flashing than that was 180/sq
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Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
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ok, it sounds reasonable. I didn't make it clear in my initial post, but I don't have any reason to suspect that the price was out of line. This guy has been roofing in this town for ages, so I know he's reasonable and good quality.
Just wanted to be sure it was in line before I wrote the check.
MERC
If it makes you feel better, I get 700 a sq. for cedar. You seam to have gotten a good deal. If the work is up to snuff then you made out well.
CurlyHand Hewn Restorations Inc.
Restoring the past for the future.
Curly-
Just out of curiousity, does $700/sq apply to sidewall cedar too. I'm talking to somebody now about running cedar sidewall and he can't really give me a price per square, I think because he doesn't do it enough. He is a real craftsman, and I trust he'll do it right, but he wants to work T&M which doesn't help me for budgeting. Just curious, I'm not going to hold him or you to any number that you throw out.
MERC
DJ,
I do early restorations and relevant additions. We don't do cedar shingle siding, so I can't give you any feedback on the pricing for such.
CurlyHand Hewn Restorations Inc.
Restoring the past for the future.
"Just out of curiousity, does $700/sq apply to sidewall cedar too."
#1 sidewall shingles must be around 200/square (based on 5" to the weather) by now, I think #2 are around 130.00. I haven't seen anyone do better than 1 square/day/carpenter, day in day out. Read plenty of people here saying 2-3 square/day, but I'm a little skeptical about that.
Figure 1 square/day, IF you have good scaffolding. A Lull with work platform would help save time moving scaffolding around the house, but so would enough scaffoling to set up once and do the entire house (that's ANOTHER reason to spend scaffolding budget on several pump jacks instead of one set of allumipoles).
Of course, a lot depends on if you weave corners (only if I had to to match some historical style) or use corner boards too. Corner boards are cheaper and will stand the test of time much better.
Then again, everything I say is my opinion. And you know what they say about opinions and a-holes.
Just wanted to be sure it was in line before I wrote the check.
and if I said it was too high ...
what?
you'd stiff the guy?
Now that someone said it was more than fair ....
You gonna pay him the extra?
JeffBuck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
No I wouldn't have stiffed him, I would have asked him some questions, maybe asked for a more detailed breakdown. And then we would have reached an agreement and that is what I would have paid, even if it had been the original price. I believe in a fair price for quality work. No more, no less.
MERC.
Sounds like you got a deal to me. That $172/sq was not really that. It was probably $135/sq plus $x/lin ft for valley, plus $y/lin ft for flashing, plus $z/lin ft for ridge vent and so on. Got any waste vents, chimneys, range hood vents, or any other bumps in the road that slows the shingler down and adds material cost? Are you happy with the finished product and did you get a reasonable workmanship warranty out of the roofer?
Man I'm in the cheap seats here when it comes to labor costs, and here for what you're describing that's pretty good. If the reputation checks out, smile. Lots of roofers won't touch a 12/12. You find one who does, does good work, and doesn't charge a premium?
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
That was fair if they did a good job.
Eric
Wow you guys are making me feel like I should give the guy a bonus. Here in Chapel Hill, NC, labor is usually pretty high, so I guess I really did ok.
I actually don't have any roof penetrations -- yet. I just put the second story on and I haven't yet done my vents. yeah, yeah, I'm sure you guys are thinking "what about plumbing...". I put a Studor MaxiVent on my big stack that I cut off and I put a mini vent on the other smaller vents that got cut off. The house is wide open these days, so no issue with make up air. This should be resolved by heating season.
They did do a good job. 120' of ridge vent, with proper ridge cap shingles. A little too much roofing caulk at the front edge of the dormer for my taste, but it really looks like it was unnecessary because they did the step flashing pretty well. I'll try to post a picture tomorrow. The only other thing I wish they had suggested was ice and water shield along the dormer walls. But it's too late now.
Also when their office called to give me the final price, she said "it's pretty expensive...so we tried to cut it down some...$7750...blah, blah." I think they felt a little bad because they put me off some for some other big job they had and then we ran out of shingles (but that was my fault - I told them how many squares I have).
So at any rate, I got a good roof at a good price and I'm happy. Thanks to all who replied.
MERC
>>I'm sure you guys are thinking "what about plumbing...". I put a Studor MaxiVent on my big stack that I cut off and I put a mini vent on the other smaller vents that got cut off.
Even where studor vents are allowed (most places, I believe) there still has to be one main vent through the roofl you can't use all studors.
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
I'm aware of such requirements and we both know that it's not an issue in a house that still has sizeable holes in it because it hasn't been insulated and I'm still waiting on a few windows to come in. So I have window sized holes in the house. Not to mention the weather is great and so all the windows are open.
MERC
Up here in N.Y. I just raised my prices per sq from $100 to $125. That's not including the valleys or chimneys, etc.
the price you got seems fair
Thats not a blemish....we call that character
Yikes!
I'm paying $50/sq in MA. That's with insurance certificates, presentable workers, and a decent clean-up. Labor only...new work. Anything up to a 12in12. Been using my roofer for 2 years now and am very happy with him for more reasons than just his price, they do a fantastic job. We throw each other a fair amount of work and I'd pay twice his current rate without a complaint...
$50/$60 are common numbers up here for new work.
Re-read the first post. You're talking labor only. I'll take your price for a sub on new work assuming I don't have to bid against anyone and you call me everytime.
Edited 9/3/2004 8:58 am ET by greencu
Right you are.... missed that. Like I said, I don't "shop" for subs unless they give me a reason to look for a new one. Had the same roofing sub for 2 years and he gets all my work. Wish he did plumbing too. ;)
It's making more sense now...thanks gents.
Around here the basic cost is 50 off, 50 on. Doesn't include disposal, rubber sheeting, valleys or drip edge. Most of the folks only use this up to 7/12 with anything else costing more.
Brian,
I would agree with your price quote but this guy furnished a lot of material and did a lot more than shingle......... dormers, flashings, etc . not to mention he described it as a cut-up roof and a 12/12 as well. I think if you add up all the extras and the material you would find that he is right in the ballpark with your guys. $66 bucks a square is not a real cheap shingle either. Not when you can buy 30 and 35 year dimensional shingles for between 38 to 50 bucks a square. Don't sound bad at all to me. I think he got a deal.
be well
Mark
So Diesel, why don't you pay your roofer more? That's something I just don't get. I hear similar statements alot but never any person who does it. Personally I pay subs whatever they want (all my subs are hand picked and what I would call good friends) sometimes I give bonuses for extra good work or jobs that were unusually more difficult than I feel they expected.
As far as the original post goes, that is the funny thing about this field of work....you really can't shop around. It isn't ever the same exact product. It's not like going to homedepot and lowes trying to find the better price on a certain ceiling fan.
Although DJ seems to be more understanding than most homeowners. People just don't understand....they are all too cheap. They want a champagne job done for a beer price. I am a firm believer that should get what you pay for, I also believe that if you get more than what you pay for then you owe somebody. And I hate to owe people too. I won't even get into not getting what you pay for......rrrrrrr.
gk
"So Diesel, why don't you pay your roofer more? That's something I just don't get."
Are you seriously suggesting that I pay my roofer more than he asks me for?
If you consistently feel that you are getting more than you are paying for then why wouldn't you. Otherwise you are just taking advantage of him. If he is really as good as you say he is then proove it and pay him what he is worth. Just because you may ask for top dollar for your work doesn't mean that every tradesman is courageous enough or knowledgable enough to know what his work is worth. In the very least you could let him know that his work is worth much more than he charges; that he could easily be getting x-amount for his level of workmanship.
As tradesmen, we are not bound as alumni, fraternities, or nessesary professional organization. If more tradesmen were to help each other out, it would promote better pay, better quality, and a resulting higher respect for trade careers.
I do help out others.
I would pay more.
I also have really good karma.
gk
I do help out others.
I would pay more.
I also have really good karma
Are you finished patting yourself on the back now?
He's getting paid what he asks for. The going rate around here for new work is from $35 to $60, so he's right there where he wants to be. If I pay him more, I need to charge my customers more. They may not think his work is worth the extra money. You've got to draw a line somewhere.
I'm in business to make money. Period. End of story. Do I also happen to love what I do? You betcha. I'd love to have strippers deliver all my subs their big ole bonus checks at the end of the job.....but I'd also like to feed my family and maybe even stay in business for a few more years. I base my proposals to customers on his rates. Anything extra comes out of my pocket. If I "pad" his number a bunch because I've suddenly decided to run his business for him, the money will come out of my customer's pocket. That would amount to me deliberately wasting my customer's money wouldn't it? When they could get the same work for less money. Isn't that my responsiblity as their General Contractor? To get them the best home they can have for their money?
For the toll my work takes on my body and the effort and skill I put into it, I feel I should make somewhere around $300/hour. Does that mean I should actually get paid that much? No is doesn't. Why? Cuz the market won't bare it at this time.
That's a nice thought you have there. Really. But it doesn't even begin to resemble good business advice. An occasional bonus for a job well done is always appreciated and I do deliver on those. But to make a habit of overpaying invoices is the worst business advice I have ever heard. This is the real world here. Get off your high horse.
Edited 9/4/2004 3:36 pm ET by dieselpig
"For the toll my work takes on my body and the effort and skill I put into it, I feel I should make somewhere around $300/hour."
In my experience, usually the guys who say that are actually worth about $10 hour. They are also the guys that don't work for me long.
Other guys who don't work for me long are the ones who don't believe me that you can be honest, do great work, and still make good money. Seems like everyone just wants to cut corners and get out quick with the most money that they can scam. People hire me because they trust me and admire the quality that I can provide.
Apparently people that you work for don't care about the quality. So they hire you to do it cheap.
I suppose that I am glad that you make a living doing that...I hope it never haunts you.
gk
Gabe,
You obviously didn't even read my post because you've completely missed the point. I guess all you really wanted to accomplish was self-righteous bragging with a side order of mud-slinging, so I'll bow out and let you do that.
How on earth do you turn me saving my customers unnecessarily spent $ into cutting corners and screwing people? You've completely lost touch.
And to make things worse....you just came off like a complete azzhole. Congratulations.
Edited 9/5/2004 1:13 pm ET by dieselpig
diesel,
Seems like some folks can really twist an issue into a cut-down session without reason. I can't see the reasoning here either. Saving someone money (while still making a decent living) is what I thought it was all about, if your ethical. It doesn't mean that you do substandard work!
Gabe,
Hows about posting a profile so we know who's in the other corner, and where you practice your craft.
Peace
Diesel,
I think the original post was about roofing prices. You claim that your roofer charges $50 but does a job that you would pay more for. If going top dollar in your area is $60 then why don't you suggest in some way to your roofer that you would not be opposed to paying him that.
This thread is about a homeowner who is happy with the quality of his roof. He is not the only homeowner who notices a quality roof job and he is happy to pay a slight premium to get it. So are you trying to say that you would lose work if you charged slightly more for the roofing on a project.
Sorry if I offend you with my views, I simply feel that fair is fair. Treat your subs fair, explain to your customers that they are getting the highest possible quality, don't be greedy, and enjoy life. I love what I do. I don't do it to become rich just to make a comfortable living.
calm down, have a beer, buy one for your roofer too.
gk
Gabe,
don't go back-peddling now my friend. Because I said that your suggestion was bad business advice, you went and got offended and made this personal. You insulted my business practice, my work ethic, my skills and my ethics as a human being. And then you close your last post by telling me to "calm down"? Are you for real? You seem to be the one who has gotten hot under the collar.
When I say that my roofer charges $50/sq, that is his base price. On many roofs he makes much more than $50...and I pay it without a problem. Maybe I should have been clearer when I said that I would "gladly pay him double". That was more of a compliment to him than it was a factual statement. However, if the going rate around here was around $100/sq....I'd be happy to put it in his pocket instead of someone elses.
How do you think my customers would feel if I said to them, "hey look, I decided to spend an extra G on the roof. I could have had it done by the same guy for a G less, but I feel that I am obligated by the brotherhood of tradesmen to overpay what he invoices me. I know it's your money, but I'm going to spend it how I see fit"
Or do you suggest that I just don't mention it to the homeowner? Is that the more honest way of doing business that you are suggesting?
Sorry if I offend you with my views
Gabe, it wasn't your views that offended me, it was your insults. The insults and sweeping judgement you decided to cast on me from your cyber pulpit without taking even a minute to get to know anything about me or my business. Let's not sugarcoat things.
Treat your subs fair, explain to your customers that they are getting the highest possible quality, don't be greedy
I pay my subs what they ask for. It also happens to be near the top-end of going rate around here in this situation. I pay them on time and I'll occasionally bonus them when they go above and beyond. This is all information that I've already posted. Is that not treating them fair?
Regarding the "don't be greedy" part. Why do you assume that because I am in business to make money, that I am greedy? I am anything but greedy. If you had taken the time to find out a little bit about me before handing down judgement, you'd know that.
The bottom line is that I disagreed with you and you decided to take a personal attack. It is what it is. I'll still sleep fine tonight and you won't be renting any space in my head. I know I run an ethical business where everyone involved profits, my employees, my customers, my subs, and yes...even me.
And thanks for the beer, but I don't drink. See you around.
pig ...
here's one of my catch phrases I'll let ya steal ...
maybe post it to gabe?
"I'm here to make money, not to make friends...."
in the end ... never have truer words been typed.
Jeff
funny aside ... was visiting my Jeep at my mechanic's ... who's also one of my oldest friends from HS ... kinda friend ya don't have to be friendly with ... you know ... just run into ever now and then and it's like old times ... till ya don't see each other for another 6 months or so ... no hand holding needed ...
so anyways ... he's asking me and the wife about our trip to RI ... starts talking about the guy down the alley with an inspection station .. how the guy wanted to partner up a bit ... sharing and feeding each other work.
which sounded great .. till he realized the guy also wanted a new buddy ...
so my buddy Brian says ... "look dude ... I'll do the bodywork for you ... but I'm not gonna hang out with you. I'm not good at having friends ..... I don't even like half the ones I have now ..."
after laughing our a$$es off ... I turned to the wife and said ...
"sad part is ... that's Brian and that's the truth!"
he's here for the money too ....
JeffBuck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
There are ways to hold yourself or somebody else up as a good example of a way to do things without demeaning somebody else.
But you seem to be one of those who have a need to build yourself up by knocking somebody else down. at least that's the way it comes across. It isn't very pretty and sure ain't very good for your Karma.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
it's so hard to hold myself back
I wana reach right into the monitor screen and touch you.
even the hem of your garment...
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I'm nearly perfect. Just a little more work on humility and I'll have it wrapped up.
I used to be prety conceited when I was younger - not that I didn't have reason to be - but now that I got over that little problem, I'm almost as perfect as you
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Hey, Piffen - does UPS come out on the isle? I've tried to email all the pics we took, but I'm having problems with sending more than one at a time. Look for a CD in the box. Ought to be there around Fri.
you bet it does! takes an extra day to get here but we get snail mail, UPS, Fedex, and bills.
You got my street adress? on the card?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I got it.