I’m designing a contemporary flat roofed house for myself and am planning to use Sarnafil roofing. I was thinking about fibre cement sheets for the siding, but had a bizzare idea of using Sarnafil for the siding also. Because it would be an exterior vapor barrier, and I’m in New England, I would drainage channel insulation to allow trapped vapor to escape downward.
Any thoughts on the practicality and/or cost effectiveness of this idea (I’m comfortable with the aesthetics). Or does anyone know of any other low-cost, contemporary siding ideas?
David
Replies
My initial reaction is that you're probably a nut. But, welcome to Breaktime, you'll fit right in. Why do you want to do this?
I'm unfamiliar with this specific product brand, but here's the link for anyone interested:
http://www.sarnafilus.com/
As the light changed from red to green to yellow and back to red again, I sat there thinking about life. Was it nothing more than a bunch of honking and yelling? Sometimes it seemed that way. Jack Handy
I invrented nuts. We all need a few to make the rest of us seem sane.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
You're welcome.
Nobody asked, so here's my cupola:PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
That reminds me of the old workers comp insurance report from abricklauyers helper who used a rope and pulley to bring a load of used brick down. Were you trying herre to hoist an engine into that Oldsmobile when something went wrong?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Not quite that bad. LOL
Wire rope, 10k lb working; snatch block, 20 ton; Caterpillar on the operational end. Floor and trunk pans were removed. Cupola with electric windows! Trunk was a roof hatch. Unfortunately, the old boat was heavier than I thought. Had too much sag in the wire rope to clear the top floor. About that time I started to wonder if those oak beams would hold it up.
Tom ain't going any higher. Didn't like the trip up the ladder as it was. When I pulled harder on the wire rope I started to deconstruct the tower I'd built on top for the other end attachment. No sudden descent. Pretty good tower, bit too short.
The Rocket's in storage (in the woods) awaiting a shorter building. Next time it's gonna sit on concrete, a lot lower so my crane can reach. Still like the plan, just a little ill conceived. That was last week, disappointment's almost gone, new roof line now. Copper tomorrow, weather permitting, got chased off this pm by snow. Slate for the other end. Translucent panels in the center for a glowing ceiling. Should be nice.
No inspections on farm buildings here, other than zoning. Might be a problem sliding the Olds past a residential inspector... PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
What is this Sarnafil roofing? I have never heard of it either.
BTW - to qualify the previous post, greencu is the BT roofing expert. My guess is that he knows 2x more about roofing anyone else around here.
Just recently saw a crew install Sarnafil on a couple of exterior decks. The stuff they used was bright orange, but there may be other colors. They glued it together using heat, and it's not particularly pretty, although I guess a guy could take the time to make it look nice, with straight cuts, square or rectangular pieces, etc. But how would you install it on the walls? By putting nails thru it? In a decking application it just sits there and is not held down by anything other than gravity. They also put a heavy layer of fabric over it to protect it, presumably both from UV and from damage by sharp objects or lit cigarette butts. On top of that fabric was another welded layer of material that also serves as protection. It really didn't look anything like siding to me. We're getting ready to install stone over it, on pedestals.
I think you'd have to work out a lot of details before trying it. Can I talk you into some nice sheet metal? There's a guy here doing a house with large pieces of rusted steel plate as siding.
There's a guy here doing a house with large pieces of rusted steel plate as siding.
Picture? I remember a very old FHB about a guy, maybe Texas, who was welding his house together, rusty steel on the outside. I considered monel until, with difficulty, I tracked some down in Chicago and found out what it would cost.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I believe that it is just outside of Lubbock. Or maybe Austin. I've seen the house. Looks like a scrap yard.Remind me not to let you near my house....
Remind me not to let you near my house....
Whaaaaat? Afraid of what I might try to put on the roof?
I actually have very happy residential clients. Remember, no accounting for taste (and I sure don't live in Ohio).
G,D,&RPAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Hi,
It does come in a lot of colors, although maybe not the subtle shades I would like. It can be hand welded very neatly, and I don't think it would need anything beyond that. In fact, I was considering just butting the sheets vertically and putting a batten over them, to break up the surface.
Or does anyone know of any other low-cost, contemporary siding ideas?
Unsure of what you consider low cost, or even the current price, but I used 3'x10' copper sheets (16 oz.). They're now a dull brown. We're still pleased with the choice, next place will be the same. For contrast, I skinned part of the exterior doors with same sheets that'd been exposed to rain for awhile. Makes irregular black stains over the shine that we find very interesting. Used automotive top coat on it to keep the copper from weathering further.
Built a similar house to ours for a client and he insisted on the same siding. No maintenance and pretty much forever. Our concrete houses have no siding ventilation issues, however.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Cool picture! I'd love to do copper, can't imagine that I can afford it, but I'll check the price. How do you attach it? Do you have to vent it to prevent condensation on the inside of the wall? Also interested in your comment about concrete houses. I've considered that, as it would be perfect in this design. Any real data on cost comparisions to stick built?
Geez, you don't ask much do you? <G>
My last copper was $2.40/ft. At that time Greencu was not paying over $2. Even at $2.40, it looks like very inexpensive siding to me, considering (easy) installation and (lack of) maintenance. Mine is attached to steel studs with insulation separating the two. SS screws in nylon tee washers for galvanic avoidance. But I tested a few screws without the washers and see no corrosion- in this location.
Client house, same construction, but we used copper Z strips on the concrete, allowing copper pop rivets (brass mandrel) for attachment. Much better. We also copper clad the windows. Client needed a standard mortgage, we were concerned about the appraisal. Came back 50% over construction cost. Huge grins all around. The appraiser ignored all energy features, like annual heat storage, concentrating on sq ft and details. And we came out smelling sweet. This is standard commercial construction, adapted. They don't do it because it costs more. The crane guy was astounded at how cheap the steel bar joists were, compared to wood trusses. Plus we will never, ever, be looking at a reroof.
With cast-in-place concrete, plus nothing to rot on the outside (or inside for that matter), we can ignore condensation potential that most homes can't. Haven't done a blower door test, but when we close these 4' wide doors, you notice the air resistance, very tight. Much as I love wood, I see no reason to build a house out of bug food.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
for fastening u might look into a 3m porduct VHB tape... VHB= very high bonding... they use this stuff on aircraft and on most of the coke trucks to bond the alum skin to the steel framework, creates a break from the framework and you'd tear the alum skin before you'd get it loose... comes in different thickness so that it'd conform to slight irregular shapes and needs no mechanical fastners... if it can hold up to a twisting steel framework go'n down the road... seems like it'd work for a stantionary house... btw i love copper i use to build bars and it was my material of choice for tops & backs... thats when i was pay'n $40 for a 4x10 sheet
pony
for fastening u might look into a 3m porduct VHB tape...
Very interesting. Even more so for my current need, reattaching reinforced fiberglass sheets to aluminum struts in Kalwall panels. Their glue, whatever it was, stuck to the fiberglass great, but came completely clean from the aluminum. And don't tell me to ask Kalwall, we've already been through that in another thread.
The panels are in the background of the oldscupola picture. Aluminum I beams make extremely rigid lightweight panels (stress-skin), spanning 9' in a 50 psf snow load location.
Any idea about fiberglass attachment?
Light, apologies for the thread hijack... but get used to it.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
used alum is always a trick because you are glue'n to oxidation... i'd guess if it was new very clean just wiped down with some killer cleaner u might have some luck... that or prime it with primer made for alum... I think the alum skin they use for the trucks already has a baked finish on it... the 3m tape is a foam type tape so i know u get some movement for the different expanison rates of steel vs alum... i had some samples of the stuff at one time and used it to hold alum body panels together on a IMCA racecar... sucked when i only had to try to change one dented panel i had to cut it off... but looked nice not have'n 20 wide head pop rivits show'n
pony
> stuck to the fiberglass great, but came completely clean from the aluminum.
Fastening metals like copper and aluminum to other things you have to consider thermal expansion and contraction. Traditional copper roofing is done with cleats that give a little, or even have slots to allow for sliding.
-- J.S.
As I said earlier, I'm unfamiliar with this particular product, but I'm doing flat seam copper roofs for about 5-10% more than epdm or modified. Walls would be less since little or no pre-tinning and soldering would be involved. VATom has a nice system for copper cladding. One question about your design: if you use battens, aren't you putting holes in a perfectly good membrane? BTW, I bought a skid of copper for $2.29/lb including KY sales tax Friday. 16 oz copper covers a square foot per pound. Compare that to your membrane product.
I invented membrains.
That site has a page showing mechanically fastened panels, but other than that, I know as little or much about it as you, except theat the idea sounds loony as well as costly.But we ndo need people to test the boundariers for us. That is how we end up with things like electricity, telephones, etc.You may be right
I may be crazy
But I just might be the lunatic you're looking for...My eyes are still squirrley and my hair is still blue
Why don't cha love me like ya used to do
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Around here (rural Rocky Mountains) the hip modernist thing to do is reference the farm building past by using galvanized metal siding. It's actually a great idea, cheap, no maintainence, large sheets for quick install. I'm just pissed that it's become hip before I've had a chance to use it.
We've installed quite a few Sarnafil roofs up to 30,000 sq.ft. Sarnafil is a PVC sheet membrane usually in 6 ft. wide rolls. Seams are heat welded together by hand or with an automatic welder. Typically it comes in white or off white, but I've seen various colours. The sheets are held down with mechanical fasteners and plates in the seams or fully adhered with contact cement ( similar to EPDM) or ballasted with 1 1/2" round stone. It is very similar in application to the PVC membrane that is made for decks.
As for an application on a wall ............. you could fasten or glue it in place...... if it is fastened it will ripple in the wind which would look like? or even may be noisy... and appearance ???? I'm not sure how it would look.