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I need the assistance of you contractor/builder types.
I just got a bid of $5,000 for a roofing job on my home and it seems a bit high. I am about 30 miles west of Chicago. My house is a smallish, two bedroom, single family, one-story building with an attached 1-1/2 car garage and breeze-way area between the house and garage. The house, garage and front part of the breeze-way are standard peaked roof design without any protrusions except the chimney and a couple of ventilators. The back part of the breeze-way is a flat roof about 12X16. The shingles will have to be removed before reroofing.
The bid is from a reputable local company. Is it in the ballpark?
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MORE INFO NEEDED
How many "square" of roofing involved?
What kind of shingles? Brand & name?
*They did not give a square foot area in the estimate but I ROUGHLY guess the area of the peaked roofs to total around 2,000 sq. ft.They are not doing the flat area as it was recently repaired by them and is in good shape. They are adding two new vents to the roof, new flashing on the soil pipe and chimney, ice and water shield at the eaves and doubled coverage along the ridge and hip.They will strip old shingles and put down 30lb shingle felt.The shingles are CERTAINTEED LANDMARK30.
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Charles,
I don't know what the labor rates are like in Chicago, but there could be some other price determining factors involved besides what was asked by Orville. Is it one layer or two? How steep is the roof? I know my prices go up with each layer, and if it's steeper. It takes longer to strip a roof you can't walk on.
In our industry, (besides doing quality work) reputation and references are key. You should always get more than one estimate, and you should always call their references. If you know they are reputable, then half the battle is over.
I would still get a couple of more estimates.
Good luck.
Greg
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There are two layers of shingles and the roof is easy to walk on - about a 25 degree slope.
Also, the edge of the roof is about ten feet above the ground so it is easy to get at.
*Wow.......down here in East Tennessee a roofing job like yours probably wouldn't be more than about half that, unless there's something else involved....I second the suggestion for another estimate....
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It would seem you are talking about 20 sq. The price you list seems to be right in line with what we would charge. (N.E. Ohio)You described some quality materials,you have dealt with the contractor before,and you mention that he is reputable. All these things cost $$$.
One thing that can quickly drive the price of a roof up even higher is accessibility.2 layers of shingles to be torn off and they all have to land somewhere.working around landscaping,Awnings,decks etc add to the cost because all these things need to be protected from the 4 or 5 Tons of debris which is gonna slide of your roof.How close to the dumptruck will the piles of debris be? Will everything need to be carried to the truck? Can the new shingles be loaded directly on the roof by boom truck or do all the bundles need to be carried up a ladder?
Good Luck,Stephen
*Charles, in my area central NY, $250 per sq. for what you discribe is about right.Vince
*My standard bid here in SoCal is about $250 per square which includes tear off; new ply; fire and ice membrane along the permeter and valleys; flashing; and 30 years shingles. I also charge a dump fee as a cost.
*Scooter, we don't include plywood at that price.We add in at $35 per sheet appox.Vince
*Charles, I would suggest getting another estimate. If this contractor is reputable, and been in business for awhile, he must be putting the screws to you, ya think. Maybe get two yo-yo's with A truck and A new craftsman nailer for $2500. Sorry but I have A problem with the impresion people have about builders and contractos in general, we just run around screwing people out of money. Sure there are crooked people in the trades , but that applies to any feild. When you have A reputation and A solid business in this feild, I bet it was earned. The next time you stop at A convinience store and get A soda and A pack of gum for $2.50, smile as you say thank you.
*Amen Robert!Charles, if the company did work for you before, you were satisfied with the price and the work, and you liked them enough to consider hiring them again, then I say go with your instincts.You may very well get another bid, probably lower. Customers have a tendency to tell the second, third, fourth and so on... contractor bidding on the job that the first bid was $$$. Then every contractor after that will lower their price enough to make them more desireable, but not low enough to really make a difference. The low bid may come from a contractor that you know nothing about, and you may get a less than satisfactory job. Again, go with your instincts. They are usually right.James DuHamel
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Charles, I know your area well. It is a very high priced
one for work indeed. It's also filled with bad apples who
will take advantage of decent people, and I'm not just being
negative. Prices there are higher than here (S.Wisconsin)
and yet I don't think this is out of line. Good advice to
get more estimates but I'd be more concerned about WHO than
how much, in your case.
Much experience in your area. Good luck.
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DuPage County? ( I just moved down from Cook County/Wrigley two years ago, my supervisor lived in Hinsdale.)
Best answer is "it depends." A fellow I was talking to here in No. VA charges about $100 sq. for basic 25-yr. shingles (for fancy stuff, you can pay $100/sq for the shingles alone!), + maybe $50 for tearoff, plus extras like steep roofs, etc. ... until you are at a price not much different from your quote. Ask him to break it down a little -- it's OK to admit that $5 k makes you swallow hard, but not to suggest you think he's trying to rip you off! And it is appropriate to get a couple of quotes before proceeding. In a Consumer Reports survey, they found that people who got more than one bid tended to be happier with the result, and that the happy ones typically did NOT go with the low bid.
There are bozo roofers out there, not so much for charging too much as for doing too little. Get someone good --- $3 k wasted is not better than $5 k well spent.
*Charles,It seems to me you should call the roofer and tell them that it would be easier to evaluate their bid if you knew how many square they measured your roof to be. I can't imagine that they wouldn't be happy to tell you.Rich Beckman
*Actually Rich,I would NOT be happy to supply that info.Experience tells me that when a customer asks that particular question the sale is not going to take place.The customer takes the price($5000 in this case) the number of squares(20 in this case) and figures "wow,$250 / Sq. Surely I can get this done cheaper"He then gets on the phone calling every "contractor" he can find till he finds one that says $249/sq.,or $240or $200 or whatever magic number the customers "expert" brother-in-law has told him is a fair price.You know the expert I mean....he is the guy who's expertise is based soley on the afternoon he spent helping a neighbor roof a tool shed 15 years ago.I would encourage a potential customer to get several estimates,that is of course his right and reponsibility. I would suggest the several estimates be from contractors of a similar caliber,so that you know you are comparing apples with apples.You can expect the contractor to have a detailed list of the work to be done on your job with one price for the described work.But do not expect him to tell you how many squares the job measures,how much the shingles cost him,how much his men are paid per hour or what he ate for breakfast.Asking for proof of insurance is reasonable,asking for references is reasonable,asking to see a copy of his license is reasonable,asking how long the job will take is reasonable.Trying to find out what profit he makes on your job is unreasonable and un realistic.Trying to beat his price down will be counter productive.By the way, I am not trying to bash the original poster here,just discuss the usual customer psychology at work.The contractor the poster described seemed like a respectable guy.He has no need to breakdown his charges into categories or to otherwise try to justify his price.The price is the price,take it or leave it.Good Luck All,Stephen
*Orthopedic shoes.Rich Beckman(I stand corrected) :-)
*Wow, I am going through (getting) a new roof right now. I consulted this board for prelim questions, researched as advised, and ultimately asked them of one roofer (no, I didn't get other bids--I chose to go w/a roofer recommended by a friend whose uncle had been using them for 20 years for rental properties, and recently used them for his own house).I may have been able to save some $ w/another contractor, but, frankly, I don't have time to spend $500 in time off work to save $350 (i.e., spend $150 just for a "free" estimate).My main gripe so far--and trust me, there will be more, I'm sure!--is that he was *so* positive there was no damage to the roof (but we both agreed there would be some for the garage). Well, of COURSE there is damage to the (substrate) roof--why else would it be leaking! (We have 3--soon to be 1--roofs on this place, and the last one was placed about 40 yrs ago!)However, he is being fair about the over-and-above (what they find when they peel off the layers) charges for the basic roof. Frankly, when I work a 50+ hr week, I'm just happy to have a non-leaky roof when I get home!We are two days into this 4-day job. Orig estimate ~$3300, orig time still on track--but they haven't even looked at the faulty (single-car) garage yet! I'm guessing it will easily be double that (esp since it's already at 4k w/the roof damage).BTW, my house is tiny ~800 sq/ft. He bid on ~1200 sq/ft and told me he couldn't do such a small place on a $/sq and still make a profit. I do understand that. He also answered all my questions appropriately, and was amenable to all, and even said they were all reasonable. Boy, what is wrong w/that picture!Bottom line, I'm really glad I have a very old house built when workmanship (true 2x4's) counted (hardly felt the earthquake). Whatever improvements I do in the future will be with the thought that it should be the best, even if I won't be around to see it crumble when it finally does.Boy, to have my druthers . . .I'll keep you posted as this project progresses. Now, once it's done, I'll be in the market for rain gutters. I'll do a search on this site, but if anyone is hot on this, please let me know! Thanks!
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Well, I thank everyone for your input. The general tone here is that the estimate is in line. I must admit I thought it would be around $3500 but I wasn't familier with prices in the industry.
I also admit to being completely for quality work and I am sure this company will deliver. I am still thinking about a second estimate but I may not even bother.
Oh, Kai, I will probably replace my gutters too. This time I will go for the large (4 inch) downspouts. Even with gutter screens I get pine needle clogs at the drain openings.
Again, I thank you all for your time and knowledge.
*At the risk of inviting an angry torrent of replies from the roofing trade I'd advise you to make an estimate yourself of the number of square. In my experience with roofers, the number of squares that they estimate is vastly overestimated. When they provide the corresponding estimate based on this square footage it may seem reasonable when really it isn't. You mentioned your house is smallish. Estimate the projected footprint of the roof on a flat plane and then estimate the pitch of your roof. e.g. if your footprint of "smallish" roof is say 40 x 25 with a pitch of 45 degrees along the length then square footage = 40 * [(25/2)/(cos 45) * 2 = 1414 square feet. Add the 12 * 16 = 192 square feet and you get approximately 1600 square feet = 16 square. My guess is that I've been fairly generous with the footprint of your house being 40 x 25. 20 square would seem high.Here in NJ the roofing estimates approach the absurd. Right now real estate here is in a seller's market and with the state of the economy it has also become a contractor's market. Roofing estimates, in my opinion, are based largely on the roofers knowing that there is no way this guy can do it himself due to fear of heights, physical condition of the homeowner, the roof needs immediate attention, the fact that his wife won't let him even attempt it, or whatever. So, they price it with that in mind.
*Walmart, Sears, your local bar, and the newsstand around the corner price exactly the same way contractors do. Supply and demand. No one does it consciously. If we (contractors) don't have enough work (not enough demand), we lower prices to get work. If we are swamped with work and can't keep up (too much demand), we say to ourselves: "I could charge more for this". The idea that we take into consideration the physical condition of our customers before inflating the bid is just not sensible. If I price too high, someone else beats my price and I make nothing on the job.As far as inflating the bid by figuring too many square: The job costs what the job costs. A contractor could figure 10 square at $100 or could figure 11 square at $90.90. The price is what the price is. The price is what the market will bear. A contractor with a good reputation and a customer following can charge more. A contractor with a poor reputation must be a low bidder to get work. The cost still is what it is no matter how it is calculated.I read that Disney World sets its prices by raising them every few months until attendance drops off to a predetermined level. Their prices have NOTHING to do with their costs or profit. Their prices have to do only with what the market will bear. Why are contractors expected to base our prices only on material costs, and overhead. Why are we crooks if we provide good service, put out a good product, and make a good living?And, as long as I'm ranting:Why do people think that you are supposed to haggle over the cost of construction. Do I look like a moroccan street vendor?
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Certainly there are con artists among contractors who prey primarily on the homeowner's lack of sophistication. I realize now that most people have no idea how their houses are put together.
As far as supply and demand, I wonder how many homeowners will insist on paying the contractor more than the bid when the market slows and the contractors are starving? Some windfall profits now are appropriate .. and don't forget that the homeowners are doing better as well in a good economy.
*Very well said Ryan,Let me buy you a beer!
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I need the assistance of you contractor/builder types.
I just got a bid of $5,000 for a roofing job on my home and it seems a bit high. I am about 30 miles west of Chicago. My house is a smallish, two bedroom, single family, one-story building with an attached 1-1/2 car garage and breeze-way area between the house and garage. The house, garage and front part of the breeze-way are standard peaked roof design without any protrusions except the chimney and a couple of ventilators. The back part of the breeze-way is a flat roof about 12X16. The shingles will have to be removed before reroofing.
The bid is from a reputable local company. Is it in the ballpark?