Any suggestions on how to deal with this fine example of excellent craftsmanship?
Yes, it is leaking.
Thanks.
Any suggestions on how to deal with this fine example of excellent craftsmanship?
Yes, it is leaking.
Thanks.
There are a number of ways to achieve a level foundation and mudsill.
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Replies
More tar?
That is not the solution of choice at this time.
I'd consider moving it, at least to the other side of that hip. Vince Carbone
Riverside Builders
Franklin,NY
I don't think that is possible. The pipe is probably not available anymore, and the distance to offset won't work for proper venting.
I think I would box in a chase and cover it with metal. I also don't think the flue needs to be as high as it is. That is a horrible location for the pipe to exit!Maybe Seeyou could brew up a bitchin copper chase for you.
That is one thing i was thinking of.
Someone's flashing the bat signal for you.'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
View Image
Being as its near the ridge, and its comp shingles, and you don't seem inclined to move it, I guess I'm stating the obvious when I say Peel the shingles off starting at the ridge cap and working down, then you can clearly see what you have, and put it back together (with new shingles) as properly as possible to keep things dry.
While you're at it, I'd cut the sheathing back so you have an even reveal of about an inch all the way around.
It's not like I *don't* want to move it, but rather I *can't* move it.
It is an old factory fabricated fireplace. While I have not seen the job yet in person, some of that old vent pipe is no longer available. That makes getting the required fittings impossible.
In addition to parts availability issues, there isn't enough distance to offset over to the more desirable part of the roof.
Offsets in these fireplaces are limited to 30* (one offset and a certain length), and there is usually a minimum length of straight pipe required above the firebox.
Replace the whole flue with new parts and flash it properly. I don't see the problem with that.Z
That would be the ideal solution... if I can get the flue (pipe) parts. Getting a flashing is easy.
The only part that may be a bear is the stove to pipe transition, all new duravent or similar the rest of the way up is a cinch.Z
I think moving it is by far the best option. Any competent sheet metal worker could fabricate something that would work. Doesn't matter if that size of pipe is available - They can figure something out.
Bumpersticker: Keep honking. I'm reloading.
Boss and Zorro-
I am looking into moving it.
The size of the pipe matters because this is a woodburning unit, and the UL rating must be maintained... so any adapters or other fabrications must be approved for the application.
Being able to make something is not an issue, rather the liability of such fabrications is the problem.
I have run into other situations where the vent piping was no longer available, and adapters were not made, so a new firebox was installed.
I didn't say you don't want to move it - I said you are not inclined to move it, basing my observation on your posted comments.
Strip the roofing back, correct the deficiencies, and put it back together. Move it if you want to and can, don't if you can't.
What's the issue?View Image
No issues, just looking for suggestions.
I know the roofing needs to be stripped back, and the roof penetration is in a really bad location.
If it stays where it is, I don't see much of an alternative to making/modifying a custom flashing with a part to extend up the roof behind the chimney.
Building a chase/faux chimney is the only acceptable option I see. There are no good options. Liability would definitely be an issue to move or adapt the pipe
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While you're at it,
see if you can do something about the side wall of the roof next to the chimney, roof shingles as siding only add to the ugliness of the whole picture. Vince Carbone
Riverside Builders
Franklin,NY
Yes, that is ugly. I suspect it is out of the question for now.
Not a fancy 3d model :) but this is my thought on it....
Obviously some of the lines are messed up due to perspective.
Edited 7/5/2009 11:04 am ET by danski0224
I might do something like that, but I would push the near corner of your box off the hip. Then extend the whole thing up and wrap it in Z-brick so it looks like masonry while avoiding any dead-end valleys.
Maybe like this?
Something like that, but you'd need a cricket behind it too, so make it squared off instead of a triangular box and keep it oriented with the hip instead of the overall house. That gives you a diversionary flashing on the back side.
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If you have a chance to draw up a quick line drawing, that might help.
Thanks.
That's what I was picturing. I really like the idea of eliminating the pipe altogether though.
I guess I don't get it. Why not just correct the flashing issues that are causing the leak, cut the sheathing back as needed, and move or extend it if required - why build an ugly box around the thing? I must be missing something.View Image
I don't see how to flash it in properly without basically taking the yellow outline and replacing it with metal.
Because a metal flashing is only as good as the first nail, much of the metal would be exposed. It would be difficult (but not impossible) to make up a piece of metal like that in one piece... so, there are seams that need to be addressed. Some of that seam work would be in the area between the pipe and the rear roofline.
If the pipe can't be moved, boxing it in would remove the dead space above the flashing and between the pipe/rear roof line.
Maybe not the most aesthetic approach, but possibly an approach much easier to dry in properly.
I could be missing something, too.
Where is it leaking? I would just strip the roof back, re-flash as needed, and put the roof back. That's just me. I'm no roofer, and I'm no sheet metal man. But I've flashed plenty of roof penetrations, skylights, etc., over the years, and never had a leak. Although (as has been pointed out), we know the original workmanship, location, etc, is far from ideal, I know I could make that workable with proper flashing.
But then again, maybe not. You're there, I'm not. All I have is the pictures you posted. And the pundits have more experience than I do on this kinda thing. I don't even know what this means "a metal flashing is only as good as the first nail"!
At any rate, I wouldn't even consider building a big ugly box up on the roof like you've drawn. But I'm here to learn. Post some pics of your progress and finished product - if they take your bid.View Image
"I know I could make that workable with proper flashing."There is the catch!
"proper flashing" depends on being able to divert and guide water to a flow path where you want it to go.On this, the base cone of the roof jack flashing is right snug up against the sidewall where you would normally have a minumum 4" step flashing. So the jack is divertiung water to the wall and the wall 'flashing' such as it is, is diverting water tot he jack, all in a location at the base of a valley where greater than larger volumns of water are already channeling.So it is not possible to do a "proper flashing" there.
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Annual precipitation in Bakersfield is about 3 or 4 inches, in chicago, it's 46 inches. Probably why Huck thinks it's no big deal to flash. Months of wet and cold with ice and snow is a lot different than a few showers in a nice climate.
I was thinking about that as a possibility
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Snow? What's that?
=)View Image
Nasty cold white frozen stuff, of which there is a lot in the great frozen north.
Dan,
1. Remove the flue
2. Patch the roof deck
3. Flash the valley and shingle properly
4. Decommission the appliance the flue served - if it was a fireplace, drywall over it.
Jim x 3
Those are options, believe me :)
converting it to a gas FP would actually be a good option. that could direct vent with a co-axial elsewhere
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The major problem is that it is essentially a chimney set in a valley, given the volumn of water running on it, there is no step flash all the way up that sidewall, AND there is water in a hard rain spilling off the upper roof onto the storm collar. Those storm collars are hjad to deal with anyways as they are only intended to divert minor amt of water and rely on caulk.
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May not be the most atttractive solution, but the most viable solution presented so far. I would not want to retrofit that old pipe with new pipe, and then warranty the whole set up with that old fireplace box.I installed prefab fireplaces years ago, and the inner stainless steel pipe never matched from one manufacturer to the next. We are seeing more of this firelace pipe having rust issues after 22 years of exposure. I would also take a look at that.This wouldn't be a job I would be excited about doing. All the time and effort, and it would still look out of place.Good luckGreg in Sunny Connecticut
Thanks for the heads up on the rust possibilities.
I have put many of these metal fireplaces in, and you are correct that nothing matches from one manufacturer to the next.
There is another issue there.
Tjhe top of the chimney nmust be 2' above any point withing ten feet or three above ridge. IF that thing meets that, it is just barely.
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Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
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Yeah, I noticed that.
Boxing it in occured to me, but I am at a loss on how to tie it all in and have it work and not become much uglier.
I could draw it up with pertinent details given me.but not wasting time if they want a $25 repair where a $1500 fix is called for.Somebody already really screwed this up from design forward looking for cheapest of the cheap to get what they have - even to no sidewall step flashing. If this is the owner responsible for that, they still don't want it right so I'd walk.See ya later - gotta lawn to mow
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I'm reasonably sure that they want it fixed right.
Obviously someone screwed up, and I do not know the history of the original install, or that dormer... or if the chimney was there before the dormer.
I don't want to waste a bunch of time either, but I am searching for a little info so I can make some suggestions without going in blind.
Is that a flat dormer roof off to the right of the chimney , with shingle siding on the vertical wall ?
It's not too hard to fix that from leaking if you have a good sheet metal shop nearby . Take off the storm collar . Remove the shingles around this unit , both hip caps field shingles and wall shingles .
A new piece needs to fabbed for the roof to go over the old and a flange to extend up the vertical wall . Some of the metal will need to be soldered and left exposed so nails won't penetrate it .
It's a job that not many folks would attempt or do a good job with -- but it could be a lucrative little project for one skilled enough to pull it off .
That is the other path I have been considering.
If that is a flat roof off on the right -- there isn't a lot of water flowing in the area of that pipe .
Really not that tough a fix once you're set up comfortably up there .
Post some pics of the fix if you can .
Walter
It may be a few days before I can get onsite. But, I'll get pics.
You can see on the right of that photo that the dormer is a gambrel sort of shape - about a 3/12 top pitch or so
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