Homeowner here. I am having a new roof put on my home and am about to put it out for bid. The old layers of shingles need to be pulled off and new plywood fastened atop the skip sheathing original to the house. I have some questions I’ll be putting to the roofers but wondered if people help me prepare. <!—-><!—-> <!—->
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1) I have seen articles and video in which a layer of ice and water shield is placed atop the entire deck, not just edges and valleys. Is there a benefit to that and does roofing felt go atop I&W?<!—-> <!—->
2) There are lots of moss and mildew growing on neighborhood roofs. I was thinking about asking for installation of zinc strips under a top course of shingles as a preventative. If I do that, does that rule out using copper flashing on valleys and chimneys?<!—-> <!—->
3) How should a roof be flashed when it is a floor lower than the rest of the house and it abuts the siding, which is vinyl over clapboard? Do vinyl and clapboard have to be removed to ensure a watertight seal? <!—-><!—->
4) Parts of roof are nearly flat and won’t work with shingles. What’s the best was to go: a rubber covering, EPDM, rolled roofing or anything else?<!—-><!—->
5) Which is more durable: a flashed valley or one covered with woven shingles? <!—-><!—->
6) Can you recommend a top-of-the-line architectural shingle guaranteed to last longest? <!—-><!—->
7) Is it a waste of time to put in ridge vents when the attic has no ventilation from soffits?<!—-><!—->
8) Isn’t it customary to use 30-pound felt on roofs, not 15?<!—-> <!—->
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I appreciate your help. <!—-><!—->
Replies
I'll take a stab at answering some of your questions. The ones I avoid are those I leave to more experienced roofers, or those that have proved contentious when discussed here in the past.
1. Depends on where you live. It isn't common here in the Pacific Northwest.
2. Have you considered a shingle with an algaecide? See #5 below.
3. If you are replacing the sheathing you will need to replace the step flashing on the walls, and this will very necessitate removing the lower siding and building paper.
5. Open valleys are defiantly better than closed.
6. I have had good luck with Malarkey shingles ( I'd like to hear other roofer's views here...). They make a "Legacy" that has a 50 year warranty, is very flexible with a rubberized layer, is rated for winds of 110 mph. and is algae resistant.
Edited 1/7/2007 3:16 am ET by fingersandtoes
1)I wouldn't use I&WS on the entire deck unless it's a low pitch (2/12- 3/12). Felt or I&WS. No need for both.
2)AR shingles have copper flakes in the aggregate. Use them and forget the zinc strips.
3)Steps behind the vinyl, at least. If there's housewrap behind it, get the flashing under it. If possible, get behind the old siding.
4)EPDM
5)Depends on the installer and situation.
6)Varies by region - Certainteed is good in KY.
7)No - add some soffit venting.
8)I haven't used 15# in years. I actually prefer synthetic underlayments such as Titainium.
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Hello
I had twentyyears roofing before getting into remodeling.
#1
I&W is used over the whole roof when it is an extreme climate, or when the re-roof is likely to take a long time, such as when doing a tile roof in winter extremes, or when the pitch is borderline on being too low for shingles. You don't mention your pitch, BTW
#2
shingles can be ordered with fungicides to prevent growth, but I would use same metal for valey and for under-ridge strips. Copper or leaded copper releases ions just as zinc does to resist growth.
#3
To get a decent job, you'll need to remove some siding, yes.
#4
depends on what parts and how they are related to the rest of the roof. In general, EPDM is yopur best choice. Show us a photo.
#5
Metal valley will always look better than woven and be more durable, WHEN PROPERLY DONE. I and the other roofers I have worked with have always viewed woven valleys as the cheap way out. They look ghastly IMO
#6
Installation is more important than the number on the warrantee. Often a warrantee of that extreme is limited to factory certified installers, so that will take soem research on your part. I lean towardds GAF and Elk. IKO is common up here too.
#7
No, but it is easy to add soffit vents. However, the total insulation, ventilation design of your house needs consideration. Why is it the way it is right now and how is it performing? are you removing cedar shingles?
#8
No, but that is a matter of opinion. Some roofers will shinglewith no underlayment, but they oughta be taken out back and shot. best choice is one of the new types like RooftopgaurdII
#8
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I've been waking up at 4AM for quite a while now.
I like it - only time I can get some paperwork done without interuptions from the phone.
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Speaking of EPDM, I had someone ask me last weekend about EPDM but I wasn't comfortable giving them the answer they wanted.
They have a mobile home with a metal roof. Maybe an 1980's mobile home? The roof comes to a slight ridge (rather than being rounded as some are). It appears that a few years back when they hired some guy to coat the roof, he had walked along the ridge and damaged it. The end result is that now the roof has settled down the middle (maybe 1' wide by 40' long?..not uniform settling though) and the effect is like having a water trough down the middle of their roof. At some point the standing water has leaked into the home. I didn't have my camera with me otherwise I would have taken a pic.
All I could suggest was that if they weren't going to repair the ridge damage, they at least need to build it back up (otherwise it is a mosquito trough) and that they would be better off EPDM'ing the whole roof and cementing it and mechanical fastening it to on the edges. But they didn't like this idea.
What they were talking about doing was cementing a 5' strip of EPDM down the middle of the roof (to include the trough and a couple feet on either side). But I wasn't going to tell them that it would stay down because I wasn't sure it would. Do you think they're heading for doom and another leaky roof?
That EPDM adhesive is pretty good stuff (and expensive), but i dont' know if I would trust it in that particular application. For all I know it wouldn't even bind to that white elastomeric crap that the roof had been coated in.
Either way, I don't have to help them (too busy with my own stuff), but I know you've done a fair amount of EPDM, so I could pass along your suggestions.
jt8
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned."-- Buddha
I would not expect that sort of repair tohold up either.
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At least I know I wasn't just being a pessimist. But I had visions of a couple years down the road, one corner/section of that strip of EPDM having worked itself loose and flapping in the breeze and slowly ripping the rest of the strip off. And WHAMO! You're right back where you were, but now you've got adhesive goo and EPDM residue to deal with.
Whereas if they would EPDM the whole roof, they'd probably be good to go for 15 years (assuming no disasters). It looked like a 14' wide mobilehome, so the roof is probably 16-17'... so a 20' wide roll would do the whole freaking roof. At that point, roof penetrations are their worse issue. Assuming the adhesive will stick to the elastomeric-coated steel roof, I think it would work better for them. But then again, I'm also the one that suggested they FIX whatever structural damage was there prior to fixing the water-tight issue.
But while we're on the topic, let me throw two questions at you:
1. What would you have suggested to them?
2. Do you know if there is a white EPDM? All I've ever seen is black.jt8
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned."-- Buddha
Yes ther is white. Some places don't like to order it because it means to order a whole roll.I would go with mechanical fastening at perimiter and a slip sheet or something between. The coatings on mobile home roofs can be detrimental to EPDM if they are still off gassing at all.
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I would go with mechanical fastening at perimiter and a slip sheet or something between. The coatings on mobile home roofs can be detrimental to EPDM if they are still off gassing at all.
What about roof penetrations, you're going to have to use adhesive and special treatment around them?jt8
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned."-- Buddha
There are clamp on fasten down sealable gasket type flashings available.
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for 25 years I worked for a large commercial roofing company here in WNY. I've done gazillion squares of EPDM since it hit our area in 1978. As far as the bonding adhesive reacting to the elastometric roof coating, test a small area with the adhesive, if it dries fine and doesn't act as a solvent with the coating it should be OK. There is a water based adhesive but it's pretty pricey. A couple of EPDM manufacturing companies make a 100% Acrylic Roof Coating specifically for fully adhered EPDM, non- ballasted roofs. For proper adhesion, the rubber has to be cleaned (scrubbed) well with soap and water, rinsed and dried prior to application. If a repair was made with a strip of rubber over the ridge, you could level out the low spot with foam backer stock cut to fit. The edges of the strip should have a standard alum. batten bar screwed through to the metal roof and caulked. Quite a lot of work for the repair! RV supply stores carry a self-adhesive, foil-backed repair product sold in rolls of various widths. It works well and might be the way to go for this!
Seems like I can remember seeing some kind of rubber or silicon product that was designed to be poured into low spots and it would fill 'em in and then harden (or ruberize). It wasn't something I ever really looked into, because IIRC it was expensive. Assuming their ridge wasn't going to settle any more, I wonder if that would work for them.
But then again, considering the length of their 'trough', it would probably be cheaper to just EPDM the whole dern thing.
A couple of EPDM manufacturing companies make a 100% Acrylic Roof Coating specifically for fully adhered EPDM, non- ballasted roofs.
You mean to turn a black EPDM roof white? Kinda like that white elastomeric crap they coat the roofs with to begin with? I suppose if they put their strip down and then gave it a couple coats of that stuff, it might help seal everything down better.
you could level out the low spot with foam backer stock cut to fit
I'm not familiar with this. Is this like foam insulation type stuff? Or more like the foam weatherstripping stuff?
I'll mention the RV repair stuff to 'em. They might like that.
jt8
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned."-- Buddha
The major EPDM manufacturing companies have a product generally called a "Pourable Sealant". It's not silicone based, possibly butyl or ureathane. It comes in two parts, a base and an activator, which must be power mixed together. Sets up to a firm, rubbery consistency in about 20 min. It can be poured out and trowled. Like self-leveling caulk, be careful about any small holes it can leak through. Pretty nasty stuff! Never could find a solvent that would take it off skin...wear gloves and other protective gear. We used it to seal around irregular roof penetrations, usually poured into a metal pan flashed to the roof. The foam backer stock I mentioned is like cheap expanded foam pipe insulation. Available up to 3" dia., in masonry supply stores. Sometimes referred to as "Backer Rod" it's used to fill masonry expansion joints prior to caulking to prevent 3 sided adhesion, we used it mostly for field-fabricated expansion joints on EPDM roofs. You seem to have a poor opinion of elastometric roof coatings!! I have used them a lot, with great results. Compared to petro-based aluminum roof coatings (even fiberated), the elastometrics win hands down! Better adhesion, more UV stable, more UV reflectivity, greater elongation under high and low temps, and longer roof life. Anyway, back to the ridge problem... What about screwing down a heavy gauge metal ridge cap out of a compatible metal, bent to fit, and caulking the seams ? Most sheet metal shops could fab it up pretty cheap...just thinking.
You seem to have a poor opinion of elastometric roof coatings!!
I don't like any roof treatment that only last for a couple years.
Anyway, back to the ridge problem... What about screwing down a heavy gauge metal ridge cap out of a compatible metal, bent to fit, and caulking the seams ? Most sheet metal shops could fab it up pretty cheap...just thinking.
I think those folks "repair" is more of what I would call a "band-aid". I'm more of the opinion that you're better off fixing the problem that just trying to half-#### a fix. Especially when it comes to leaks. That is one of those 'stitch in time saves 9' things.
But yeah, a ridge cap might work if it stayed put. I've seen a website somewhere where the dude put polebarn type metal roofing over trailers. It looked OK and would probably last for years, but it also looked pretty involved and made me think EPDM would be a whole lot easier.
jt8
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned."-- Buddha
"No, but it is easy to add soffit vents. However, the total insulation, ventilation design of your house needs consideration. Why is it the way it is right now and how is it performing? are you removing cedar shingles?"Just curious...I don't have soffits, and I'm guessing the OP doesn't either....I've seen the drip-edge w/built-in vents, & don't trust it in the Snow/ice climate I'm in;
Gave some thought to re-doing the fascia with Coravent behind it, but that would (unless I'm wrong here) mean re-shingling the whole roof...So, how is it easy to add soffit vents?
in your case, with no soffits, it would be impossible.
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What I thought, too; but happy to have it confirmed. I get really bad ice dams, and it would be pretty hard to spray-foam the roof in my story-and-a-half cape, so I guess I'll wait until it's time to re-roof, & the perhaps do the Coravent behind the fascia thing....
TO: fingersandtoes, seeyou and Piffin: Thanks for your help. I'm going to get algaecide built-in to the shingles. Going with open valley flashing, EPDM on flat roofs and Rooftopguard II underlayment. (Is that held with button cap nails?) And in answer to a question directed to me: Main roof has 6/12 pitch, L-addition 4/12, and two flat bumpout roofs that drain barely.
Edited 1/14/2007 12:55 am ET by DabblerBabbler
dabble, you might want to use the "W" type valley flashing, helps to prevent the steeper pitched roof from feeding water across the valley and under the valley cut shingles of the lower pitched roof
Geoff
>>>>>>>>dabble, you might want to use the "W" type valley flashing, helps to prevent the steeper pitched roof from feeding water across the valley and under the valley cut shingles of the lower pitched roofYup- good advise.http://logancustomcopper.com
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