Getting a new roof (full tear-off) and wanted some “expert opinions” on several issues. Approx 33-square, with plenty of hips and valleys. We’re located in beautiful Rochester, NY (which has been known to see a snow-day or 2). I’m very comforatble with the roofer – he’s done several houses on my street and people are pleased with his work. Our quote includes:
“30-year architectural laminate fiberglass shingles” (choice of Certainteed Landmark, GAF Timberline, ELK Prestique, Owens-Corning Oakridge II, or Tamko Heritage);
72″ waterproofing membrane (ice and water shield) along all eaves and 2 layers in all valleys;
Certainteed Roofers Select fiberglass felt on remainder of decking;
New drip and rake edge;
Shinglevent II concealed ridgevent and color-matching hip and ridge shingles;
5-year labor warranty.
My questions are as follows:
Do any of the manufacturers or shingles listed above stand head-and-shoulders above the rest for performance and reliability? I currently have the ill-fated defective Certainteed Horizon shingle (junk after 17 years), so I’m wary of Certainteed.
I can upgrade to a 50-year shingle for about $1,500 additional. The roofer is skeptical of the 50-year warranty, but thinks the shingle performs a little better and looks better. Worth it or not?
The quoted ice and water shield is not Grace – the roofer feels that’s overkill, but is willing to use it for additional $. What would you use?
I’m familiar with 15lb and 30lb roofing felt, but not the fiberglass felt product he’s recommending. How does it compare?
Several of the valleys face north and are prone to heavy ice build-up since they get very little direct sunshine. I’m considering upgrading to metal valleys instead of woven valleys for not much more cost – opinions? Incidentally, he would use Grace under the metal valleys becuase he feels it performs better than the other ice/water shield in that application.
How does a 5-yr labor warranty compare with industry standard?
What else should I be considering or asking?
As I said above, I am comfortable with the roofer’s experience and expertise, so I’m not second-guessing him. However, I value the opinions and experience I’ve read on this board and always feel it’s wise to solicit additional opinions and comments on things like this. I appreciate any input.
Rob
Replies
I have one thing to mention, Owens Corning is starting a new shingle line soon. Only a few colors will be available in the 30 year. So if you go with OC get a few "just in case bundles". Might not be able to get them later.
Their new shingle looks very good, I will be using them when I redo parts of my house. 40 year shingles with 110 wind rating. Where you nails the shingle is about an inch wide black strip that almost mimics the tops of the shingles.
If you plan to stay at this house for an extended period of time get a 40 yr shingle.
A little extra money for a better product.
If your roofer is putting a warranty on the job let him use the materials he feels most comfortable with.
I think Grace is a better product than some other ones- but thats just personal preference,not scientific fact.I prefer metal valleys instead of the other methods of valley construction. In fact I would taper the valleys from bottom to top to promote better drainage when snow and ice are present.Others here will be better able to help you with shingle choices.
Walteer
Rob, your post is a refreshing change from the usual "how much" or "I got screwed" topic. Thanks. And good on the information supplied part too.
Not being a roofer, I'll defer the technical answers.
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
the spec sounds fine.. not to worry....
are you going to be in the house more than 15 years ?
then go for the 50 year Certainteed
are you going to be in the house more than 30 years..
then ask for a quote on the TL's (Lifetime )
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I'm one of a number of Certainteed fans here. There are probably just as many non-Certainteed fans around. If you're uncomfortable from the gitgo, I'd scratch them off the list.
The GAF's we get here don't seal well and the shingles often vary 1/8" from end to end which makes following a chalk line tough. I've not been able to get satisfactory warranty help from them either. Quality-wise, I think they're at the bottom of the spectrum.
I've only used Elks a few times. Quality seems good, but I don't really have a good history with them.
OC's are generally of consistent quality. Don't count on them for much warranty help.
I've installed lots of Tamko's and really like their quality. I've never had the first warranty problem with them, so I don't know how the behaves.
I personally don't like Roofer's Select felt. Some do. For a reroof, I like something that's stronger if the dry-in is exposed over night. We typically use Titanium UDL or RTGII. 30 lb felt at bare minimum.
>>>>>>>>The roofer is skeptical of the 50-year warranty, but thinks the shingle performs a little better and looks better. Worth it or not?
I agree with your roofer. They might last close to that long, but I bet they'll be looking pretty bad toward the end of their life.
>>>>>>>>>The quoted ice and water shield is not Grace -
I'd use the same brand as the shingles. Keeps them from blaming warranty problems on the other manufacturer. 2 layers in the valley is a new one on me. Did you mean two widths?
I've had blowing snow problems with shinglevent II. The only ridge vent I've had problems with. I prefer plain Cobra Vent.
>>>>>>>>>>What else should I be considering or asking?
What type of flashing material at any chimneys, dormers, waste vents, etc.
http://grantlogan.net/
I agree that GAF shingles are crap. The varying widths make laying them straight a miracle. Their nail line is also horrific. It's a white painted stripe that may be 1/4" to 1-1/2" the latter means there is an inch of white paint on the face of the shingle.
I don't mind Elks, Landmarks are good as well. Landmarks switched to 3 bundles to a square now and the tar on them is tough and fast sealing. But they seem softer now for some reason.
What warranty issues have you had with OC if you don't mind me askin? I put a new roof on my house for the guy that used to live here and used OC.
>>>>>>>What warranty issues have you had with OC if you don't mind me askin?3 tabs blowing off. I didn't install them originally, but was hired to reroof. Normally, OC's seal too well almost, but none of the shingles on this roof were sealed. It was installed in summer. They found a couple of shingles that had only three nails and blamed that even though the tabs were ripping off. No whole shingles were missing and none of the damaged shingles were 3 nailed. They finally paid because the HO (can I say that?) was persistent.http://grantlogan.net/
I have the architechural shingles. And thats the product lines they are chganging.
I roofed about 2000 roofs in my day.
Tamko is my fav and GAF timberline is my second choice. The Elk and Owens always seemed a bit little thinner and lost there granules a little easier.
The two layers of ice shield in the valleys is nice but the first strip 3' wide should be center of the valley and second piece ripped down the middle and installed with an overlap left and right of the center piece. NO SEAM IN THE MIDDLE! I assume that's what he means by dual layer. It would be a waste to actually install one on top of the other.
If you go with metal valley have him bend with a standing seam it should look like a W when complete. Cut the valleys as mentioned 2" off the seam at the top and 3" at the bottom. Use 24" wide metal.
While you gave some excellent details , you don't mention what pitch the roof is. That is the most important factor.
I would save the dough and stick with the 30 yr. Especially if under a 6 pitch roof. You don't get to see the difference as much in thickness. As for longevity I also don't have any faith in the 50 yr shingle actually lasting that much longer.
5 yr workmenship is standard warranty.
Have him replace any and all flashings.
Most of the ice shield out there is fine no need to pay more for Grace. I have seen guys use ice shield on hips/rakes, usless . Only need it in valleys and at eaves.
Sounds like you have a good roofer! Most important thing to watch/hope for are making sure they nail through the doubled area of the shingle. This is the area about 1" wide which the nails must hit. No staples use 1 1/2 nails or better.
This is why I love this board - lots of good info and pros willing to share their knowledge. Thanks for all of the responses.
I'm embarrassed to say I'm not sure of the slope. I've been up there a few times and I can say it's damn steep! If I get a chance I'll measure the slope.
One other thing I forgot to mention - since about 1/2 of the roof faces due north, I get a fair amout of moss / lichen growth. I've heard that some roofers will nail a zinc strip along the ridgeline to combat moss / lichen growth - does that work? Are there treated shingles to use instead (or in addition)?
Rob
make sure your shingles are treated for AR ( algae Resistent 0
most of the Certainteed line is available with this optionMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
he sounds like he knows what he is doing.
Two things confuse me that aere both involving valleys.
I don't know what he means by double layer in valley for the I&W. The fact that he recommends a brand that he admits is lesser quality than Grace might indicate his own lacl of confidence in it.
Or it could be that the reason for dual layer there is his metod of vally treattment. If he is lapping or weaving laminated archies in a valley, theare highly likely to break lams as they fold . With microscopic breaks that don't show but can later leak, the extyra I&W is necessary.
I use metal valleys mostly, and for the heavy archy shingles I always use metal valley. It should still be backed up with the I&W.
Valleys are the first place your roof will leak. No sense buying a 30year shingle and installing it with a 20 year valley methiod
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shingle choice:--personally i would avoid tamko, gaf, and owens corning------I deal exclusively in Certainteed and Elk( although elk was just bought by gaf)
If using 30 year shingles----- i would probably use the certainteed landmark-----if using 50 year shingles-- I would most likely use the ELK.- both will be AR, algae resistant.
If using the Elk-- i would want them--in your climate--coming from the Pennsylvania plant---NOT one of the southern plants---beware of the birchwood and the blue colors--- they used to only come from the south--this might be different now.
the grace is a demonstrably better ice and water shield----it's also fiendishly difficult to install well in hot weather-----some of the "other" ice and water shield brands have a "warrantly" of a mere fraction of the grace products' warranty. I can also recall an instance where we re-flashed a chimney and used an "other" brand of icegaurd in the repair--repair worked fine--but 5-6 years later when we tore off the whole roof and totally replaced it----- we found the "other brand' north side chimney had NEVER sealed down.--that will NOT be a problem with the grace product--it's worth it.
underlayment- i don't personally care for the 'roofers select" underlayment---but it is not going to be an issue with your installation.
VERY steep roof----ask the roofer to 6 nail each shingle instead of 4 nails-ESPECIALLY if using the heavier 50 yearshingles( now called lifetime)--he will need to 6 nail it anyway to get the 110mph wind warranty.
sounds like your planned roofer is going to do a first rate project. since you are willing to pay more for upgraded materials---- he will probably be delighted to use them.
I would absolutely use the 50 year shingles--even if i was moving in 5 years---they are MUCH better looking in my opinion.
good luck,
stephen
Just finished a 26sq tearoff and reroof on my own home (5/12 pitch). Used the shinglevent II and ELK Prestique 40 yr. I've done a few roofs in the past even though I'm just a HO and not a PRO. Very happy with how the ELK went on - never used them in the past. Call me in 20 years and I'll let you know how they've held up . . . One thing to note- unless you use ELK's "COMPLETE" roofing system- you get a different (lesser) warranty. I used 30lb felt and GRACE I&W. So I get a lesser warranty, but I am confident in the materials I used. I REALLY like the look of the ELK shingles. Every one I spoke with locally that does this for a living spoke highly of the ELK. Time will tell I suppose. FWIW.
definitely go with the Grace I&W, it's worth the extra bucks!!
I would go with the open tapered valley "w" bend in the flashing
use the 50's, they do look better and even if you only get an extra 5-10 yrs. over the 30's it's worth it.
Ditto on replacing flashings at penetrations; chimney, vent stacks, etc...
Elk has seemed to perform well for me, but I have limited experience with them and they did just get purchased by GAF
just my 2cents worth
Geoff