We aren’t pro framers by any stretch of the imagination, but we’re doing OK. We’ve got 2×6 exterior wallframes, and here is how we are framing the interior wall intersects.
Shown in the pic is a flat 2×6 centered at the interior wall, with a 4-inch ripped stud behind the flat one. We’ve only a couple dozen of these conditions in the job, and rather than cull out and send back the studs with excess wane, we’ve just ripped them up.
Is there a better way to do these intersects?
Gene Davis, Davis Housewrights, Inc., Lake Placid, NY
Replies
Framing 101--- Stud block stud!
What Jay said....looks like a standard T-post.
How do you want to do it better? Better for insulating, better for ease of installation or speed? What you are doing doesn't seem that bad to me. Does it seem like your production of these intersections isn't efficient? With what you are doing, you are minimizing thermal bridging and still have nailing for sheetrock or whatever you may hang on the walls. You could forgo the 4 inch ripped piece unless you have to have it for sheathing purposes, but the strongback formed will give the wall intersection a little extra strength.
Dustin Thompson
Why are you bothering with ripping a stud? that just makes lots of extra unnecesarry work. Why not just make a standard "L" shaped backing corner?
I'd hate to do all the ripping, but you have to admit, it has a certain elegance for the insulation POV. I'm gonna run along now before that blue eyed devil catches me liking this detail, LOL
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
A little bird told me blue uses those metal drywall clips for corners :)
I've oft wondered why residential framing doesn't take a clue from commercial w/ metsal studs and leave the plates back a bit and slide the DW all the way thru???
no one is ever gonna hang a picture in the corner anyhoo.
Quick, simple, energy and material efficient....
sparkies can run wires from the basement or the cieling...
OK all, why not???ACTUALLY, IT'S QUITE GOOD ON TOAST!
I agree MR T!
Most residential framers put undue emphasis on attaching a small partion to an adjoining wall. They seem to think that they need a massive amount of structural backing to keep the intersecting partitions in place. They fail to realize that there isn't any forces trying to rip the intersection apart. They also judge other carpenters by their non-bearing partition intersections. If you don't put 20 nails into 200 bf of lumber, you are judged to be a hack on a 2' non bearing wall intersection!
I'm a hack and proud of it.
Save the owls!
blue
Ps The drywall mud offers enough holding power for most intersections.
We decided to do the rest of the job using 14-1/2" scraps of 2x4 as intersect wall corner backing, as shown on the attached.
We center one at 48-1/2" up from the floor, so it catches the drywall seam, and eyeball in two more at the quarter points. I expect it will go in quickly.
Gene Davis, Davis Housewrights, Inc., Lake Placid, NY
The last time I did that method, the builder said "we don't want to see that any more".
And they were tract homes.<shrug>I personally see nothing wrong with it.
WRONG!! No inside corner nailing. Like I said, stud block stud. The blocks form a panel end . If I was better on this computer, I would draw you a picture, but I've miss spent my God given abilities actually learning how to build houses so that the trust put in me by my clients would be justified!
If you can't figure this out, you are going to get yourself in serious trouble when you have to handle the roof framming.
They offer books on how to do this stuff at Lowes. Do you client a favor and read one!
How can you possibly say what I know or don't know about roof framing? We are only talking about wallframes here.Gene Davis, Davis Housewrights, Inc., Lake Placid, NY
If there is no one on your crew who knows how to build a panel end, you're already in trouble! We used to give the chore of knocking together the panel ends and corners to the new kids, because it's such basic busy work.
Roof framing? Go ahead, go on the record and tell us that you can frame a roof like a professional.
All I'm saying is that when we take on the contract to build a high end home for trusting clients, we owe them professionalism, not on the job training .If your client were to read your posts here what do you think he would think about you apparent inexperience? do you think he would consider his money well spent?
If you want a job to done right ,hire a guy who does it all day, every day.
What's "framming"? j/k
I don't know either, of course I am just a DIY and don't have a Lowes book on framming.But I did a google on it and lots of people much know what it is.You can buy framming nail guns and framming squares and get instructions on framming a picture.I just checked and neither Amazon or my local library has any books on Framming.I wonder where peopling learn to Fram?
:-)
I put an extra "m" in framing? Yeah that's hilarious.
first you goe to Lowes and buy a framming hamer...
ACTUALLY, IT'S QUITE GOOD ON TOAST!
Putting your personal feelings about gene's abilities aside for a minute, ( after all, there are probably hundreds of other readers with the same level of experience and frame knowledge as his waiting to learn without snide comments on their roof frame abilities) - could you comment on how the insulation happens with your method. I wouldn't argue against it though it takes more lumber than needed. It is probably the strongest method discussed so far, but iut leaves a void that would be a cold pocket with most kinds of insulation undless you fill it with a piece of 2" faom board ripped 3.5" first. hopw do you handle that?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
It takes less material because the blocks are the cut offs from other cuts, don't even have to be recut to any particular length. I always had a rool of insulation delivered with the frame order so that thes pockets could be insulated before sheathing, may also want to insulate spaces in the 2x6 headers or corners. Rigid insulation works well there too.
That was'nt a snide comment! I don't have to be a fortune teller to see that kind of trouble comming. If you hired a guy for your framing crew who came to you aksing how to build a proper panel end, would you put him in charge of framing the roof? No of course not.
Good way. We call the blocks deadwood and use a lot of it - pertly because we have a lot more every year, considering the way frame lumber is going downhill.Gene has been here for a good six years asking basic questions like this. Maybe too basic for yopu and me, but if any novice were to do a search and read all his threads, they would gain a very good education in framing and other construction details from the responces pulled in answer to his questions.I gather that you used to be his framer and that for whatever reason, you are not his framer now. Too bad - maybe for both of you, but even if you are the best framer in the country, your continued atttempts to put him down every chance you get adds nothing to the education. The attempt you make to paint him as unknowing ( something that is obvious from the questions posed) really do more to paint you as bitter. Maybe the comment wasn't snide, but it read that way. To me at least.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
You're right! I got to cut that out. I was not his framer, I did siding and interior finish for a spec house that he built. I do mainly high end siding and interior finish carpentry in the Lake Placid area in upstate NY.
I'm not bitter. I got my money.
In every town you find that one contractor that all the subbs have horror stories about. Some people who pass themselves off as a GC really don't have the experience to do thier clients justice and it's their subs who have to take up the slack, and somtimes the missdirected blame.
When you put out a proposal to a new, prospective client, they will expect you to jump through hoops to prove that you can and actualy will do what you say you can do. The reason for that is that ther are so many contractors out there that have not done what they claimed to be able to do.Whenever someone srews up a job ,the stories fly and it's their reputation that the rest of us have to live down.
I don't know, maybe I am bitter, but not over my experience with Gene , but over the continued decline of our profession.Over the last 25 yrs. I've seen the general level of carpenters go from proud to mediocre.I've watched as materials slid from quality to crap.I used to work for GCs that knew the business as well as the craft, and now it's all computer geeks and wannabe's.
That last paragraph is worthy of a thread of it's own. Very well written and passionately stated.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Just got back from a walkthrough of the large custom being built across the road from where Jack and I are framing. The job is being framed by a pro framer. A crew of three, like us, although their third probably knows a 2x6 from a 2x4, something we are teaching our helper to know.
Mr. Pro Framer's exterior-interior wall intersects are done haphazardly. Two exterior studs are packed tightly behind some walls, with no backing, and some are backed with a laid-on 2x6 without the 4" rip I showed earlier. I don't know yet whether those without backing will get it later, or whether the builder will just tell his rocker to use Simpson backing clips. I've seen that done on two houses built in the same subdivision we're in now. I kinda like the clip concept . . . energy-wize, it makes the most sense, and it is as cost-effective as anything.
I photograped his rough stair stringer arrangements, which I thought substandard. I'll begin a thread in a couple days with photos of ours and his to contrast, and to ask the question again: how do you all do this?
In my days as a suit with Therma-Tru, I, like my peers at HQ, were required to make a trip per month, accompanying one of our territory reps. We made calls together on distributors, dealers, and builders. All told, I made over 150 field trips, and during each, spent time in a half dozen homes being built. That makes for over 700 visits to framed-up jobs, being done by high-end custom guys, low enders, multi-family work, stuff in the tracts of Texas, Florida, California, Colorado, houses on the beaches up and down both coasts, on offshore islands, out in the prairies, and all over this huge US of A. I was most impressed in the CA tracts . . . the specialty and speed blew me away. Some framers there sub the sheathing to one gang, and that gang just hangs it, subbing the nailing to another!
So, while not swinging a hammer or gripping a skilsaw, I nonetheless have seen how a pretty good multitude of framers have gone about things, and being a keen observer of details (Mr. Micro!) and an engineer, I recall most of those details.
I enjoy bringing things up like this here at Breaktime, just to get a conversation going, exchange some views, and hopefully, learn a little something.Gene Davis, Davis Housewrights, Inc., Lake Placid, NY
Be sure you get a burning permit before starting any bonfires with those offcuts. dry season is coming and I'm downwind of you there
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Ranger Joe will issue us the P on Monday or Tuesday. We expect some showers, and will only burn when it's wet. Right now, it is dust dry.Gene Davis, Davis Housewrights, Inc., Lake Placid, NY
the reason why not is butt joints
residential rockers rairoad boards. commercial rockers stand them up.
it would mean the residential guys would have to start standing boards on end.
the residential spacklers would then shoot all of the hangers and that would be the end of that.
Gene
If I were framing my own home, I might do what you've done for insulation reasons. At work this would take a little too much time.
carpenter in transition
Nope, no drywall clips here.
I once framed for a builder that insisted on using them instead of ceiling backing. I liked that!
blue
You're caught Piffin!
Ain't no way in he11 that I'd do all that ripping simply to add some drywall backing.
No way, no how.
blue
Gene - I've used ugly 1x6 rather (than your 2x6) for the "middle". If the purpose is just to catch the corners of the intersecting walls, and the rock is being screwed, not nailed, it works just fine. As far as the back or ripped stud, I only use it if the 16" falls there, O/W I don't think you need to add it special.