As a remodeling carpenter, I have learned a lot of good rules for sizing, opening roughs off of call size of fixtures, but alas I haven’t figured it out for Windows, I usually need the window to lay out my trimmers and hdrs. I would like a new home framer to show me what ever he can.If I can,I’ll return the favor,If you’re around here much,you know I will… since finding this site lately,I can hardly miss it,(sawdust in the veins) Thanks !
(this credit to unknown) LIFE IS SO SHORT,YET THE CRAFT SO LONG TO MASTER
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I have yet to see a window quote, or a catalog, that doesn't list rough opening sizes for units.
Take a good look at the framing for a rough opening, and you'll figure it out. For 2x framing, headers are typically 3 inches longer than the RO width, sill lengths equal RO width, and look close and you'll figure how to get lengths for kings, jacks, and cripples.
Doing it is easier than describing. For huge width openings you will have to double or even triple jacks.
Bob,thanks for the note, I found some what I could use there.About the roughs being on a quote or brochure...I pull the brochures for products on the shelf at the "big box" and they have rough sizes ... I usually quote one or two fixtures at a time.and was never sure if there was an overall rule for rough sizes.Les helped me with that part, so I'm getting the whole picture.THANKS YALL!
(this credit to unknown) LIFE IS SO SHORT,YET THE CRAFT SO LONG TO MASTER
what bob said.
tyke
just another day in paradise
You hit on exactly what I need, so, I figure I can frame the rough to the same as the "call-size" of the window,and will work perfectly with using the big end of small shims for my gaps,which is the way I wanted it to be while setting it up for the first nail...and this allows the right clearance for flex, and the returns will fall into place... now I can sleep at night. I just needed some one who did this all the time to settle all those suspiscions.THANKS.
No problems with doors,I hang a lot and have always gone 3" over call size on width,and as you do (nearly) 82 1/2 on my trimmers here it is usually to leave clearance for a door over carpet, when installing on the slab or for carpeting over wood (ugh!) The width I do that wide, because I can use scraps of 3/4 north and south on either side for temporary stability and when the door is finished they prevent rack-out...
"3/4 north and south "
What is that?
OOPS! I just meant to say top n bottom...
(this credit to unknown) LIFE IS SO SHORT,YET THE CRAFT SO LONG TO MASTER
Edited 7/24/2004 2:24 pm ET by mapache
Edited 7/24/2004 2:26 pm ET by mapache
Before I start framing I have a window and door schedule with the exact size and brand name of the windows. If the doors and windows are not chosen then a clause is added to the contract expaining that the accuracy of the rough openings will be difficult to achieve. Here's why? "Call out numbers" are not standardized in the industry. Framers, lumber yard sales and window salesmen will have different takes on this subject. With an accurate window and door schedule I can figure out the unit frame size and add my shim space of 3/8" on each side. You also want to know where the window sets in the opening, relative to interior/exterior reveals. In the East ,most of the time the window sits flush to the siding, but out West with 8" plus adobe/stucco walls the window can be recessed any number of inches.
Finally, knowing the brand name will let you know where the nailing fin is in relation to the ext & int of the window. Many times a "buck", 2X4 or 2X6, is used if the window is not going to be nailed off to the plywood sheathing. Again knowing the desired elevation will tell you where the buck is positioned within the RO to give you the desired int/ext look.
Good Luck
MES
One new construction door and window system I have used in the past;
Using a 3:0 x 6:8 door for example,
36" door width
2" jamb
1" adjustment
3" trimmers"
3" jacks
Set kings 45" clear
80" door height
1" jamb top
1 1/2" top trimmer
1/2" adjustment
??? flooring
- 1 1/2" sill to be cut later
jack and trimmer length 81 1/2" + ???
36" door width
Top trimmer 37"
Tack trimmers to jacks with 1 nail left 1/4" proud, top trimmer centered on header with 2 nails left proud.
The door and window installer, with units in hand, adjusts trimmers to fit, and permanently nails them off with 2 (interior) or 4 (exterior) 'hook nails' at each hinge point and 3 points on the latch side. The top trimmer (drywall nailer) is just pulled down to position. Installs the units and foams all gaps.
A 'hook nail' consists of a 16d driven 1" into the jack then bent over till the head touches the trimmer. An 8d is then driven into the trimmer just behind the head of the 16d. bend the last 1/2" of the 8d over the shank of the 16d and set the head of the 16 and the 1/2" of the 8 flush to the face of the trimmer.
Took me longer to type that paragraph than it does to set 6 'hook nails.' (I am a slow typist and fast with a hammer)
With this system, the framer only has to know the finished size callouts, and the installer can achieve a 'perfect' fit. There is an 1 1/2" of adjustment to compensate for all the different manufacturers styles of R/O's.
SamT
I'm not completely getting what you're trying to show me, but I think you're showing a method for setting flange-less windows flush to interior walls is that it?
(this credit to unknown) LIFE IS SO SHORT,YET THE CRAFT SO LONG TO MASTER
Or not. The "call size" as you refer to it, varies from one maker to the next, and within some makers, between one style to the next.
I grabbed a couple of window catalogs to prove the point.
Norco - a 3-0 2-0 slider, actual frame dimensions 2-11 5/16" x 1-11 7/8"
an awning, 3-0 2-0, actual frame is 3-0x2-0
clad double hung, actual frame is 3-1 3/8"x2-11 13/16
Eagle - 3-0 2-0 is exactly that, frame size, casement, awning, etc - they base it all on frame size
Kolbe - the frame size can differ as much as 2" between a clad and a casement, same size, even within the same series.
Anderson, a 3-0 2-0 casement, actual is 2-10 5/8 x 3-0 1/2
The point being, just what the size is called is not a valid measurement. Get the catalog, it will give the RO, and most of the time the RO is only 1/2-3/4" over the frame size. If you give 2 or 3 inches, that's a lot of shims, and nothing for the fins to hit. If you're fin nailing, all the nails could miss. Then you're just blocking your RO tight to fit.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
Thanks 3" is for DOORS...Scribe once, cut once!(David Banes)
I did that too, the one I have dealt with had deep and shallow framing requirements,and one for back venting... Keep the faith...
Scribe once, cut once!(David Banes)
you too huh?
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Here are some general rules of thumb:
For doors, the RO height is 82.5". The width is the door size +2".
For vinyl windows, the RO size is the same as the specified window size.
For wood windows to get the RO size add 2" to the height and 2" to the width.
Really though, especially with windows, you need the specs from the manufacturer. Also, it is always easy to make an opening that is too big smaller, but if the opening is too small... Matt