I’ve been using this method to finish wood trim and furniture for a while with good results and wanted to see what other thought about it.
– sand
– stain with water-based stain and let dry (usually only an hour)
– apply water-based poly, let dry until not tacky (usually about an hour)
– apply subsequent multiple coats of poly each time waiting only long enough for the surface to loose tackiness
That’s it. I sand only before staining. I used to brush on the poly but now typically spray it on with my HVLP sprayer. I don’t maintain that this creates a baby-butt smooth, mirror-like finish but I don’t want that anyway. I like a satin finish. Yes, the water-based stain raises the grain somewhat but I actually find that I like that look or that the multiple coats of the poly smooth it out some anyway.
Has anyone else tried this?
Replies
I'd be curious to see some close pictures of the finish that represent your efforts. Sounds like a nice efficient approach for stuff you are doing for yourself and not someone else.
I've attached some photos of my last project. I used the HVLP sprayer on this one.
Looks good. How many stages in sanding are you doing before the staining?
Depending on the initial surface of the wood, I usually sand with a medium grit (e.g. 150) and sometimes a finer grit (220) in a palm sander or by hand. I don't think I've ever used anything finer than 220. I don't think that would make it any smoother given the use of multiple coats of poly. I don't want it smoother anyway. Seems too much like plastic to me if its real smooth. (yeah, I know poly is a plastic) ;)
if it's not smooth then it will collect dust easier and look dirty long before it would with a smooth finish..'
Try spray shellac next time.. it gives you richness and depth without the plastic look that poly does..
I spray (brush, whatever) thin coats If you don't want to mix anything and just pour it out of a can you can use 1# cut instead of the 2# cut of Bullseye.
Nice thing about shellac is 1# cut dries in 15 minutes comapred to a 2# cut which might take a couple of hours..
Just remember to clean your gun with denatured alcohol instead of a thinner.
Multiple coats of shellac? Do you sand between coats?
I knock off the little nibs that get raised with the first coat. Real lick and a promise type sanding. about a second per sq.ft. Then just spray shellac untill it's the depth I want..
Ironically the longest lasting most durable finish seems to be thinner rather than thicker coats.. If you start to get a little lumpyness in the shellac just spray on a mostly denatured alcohol layer and it takes that away..
You see each coat of shellac melts the previous coats and smooths things out. (er,... the melting part is actully done by the denatured alcohol rather than the shellac)
Shellac is the finish for people who like quality but hate a lot of work..
It's what's on the finest antiques because it brings out the beauty of the wood without staining.
Extremely durable and hard to damage.. My 150 pound newfundland dog with his untrimmed claws doesn't hurt it on my floors. If it should somehow get scratched all you do is take a rag soaked in denatured alcohol rub it back and forth for a second or so (saying Abra-cadabra if little children are around) and the scratch melts right away!
Frenchy- can I take Bullseye #2 cut, add alcohol to get a 1# cut? I'm not sure if that's all it is, or are more tricks involved?Thanks. Steve
Yes I actaully go a little beyond it. I add 2 gallons of denatured alcohol to one gallon of Bulls eye.. Oh, I stir it,, sometimes for a whole minute.. (sometimes less)
I've found that overthinning shellac makes application easier and smoother.. just put on more layers if you want it thicker and remember to double the time for drying after each coat.. 15 minutes for first coat 30 minutes for second coat 1 hour etc..
3 coats seems about perfect to me.. your opinion may vary..
I'm intrigued with the idea of using shellac on wood floors. I have some floors that badly need refinished and I have about 300 lbs of dogflesh on 16 legs constantly abusing it. If you spill liquor on the floor what effect does it have? Is water staining an issue?
I'm surprised. I thought this would be a much more controversial topic. Maybe its not such a novel idea after... or a really bad one and everyone is too nice to point it out ;)
The only thing I'd say is unusual is no sanding after initial topcoat. I gotta knock the nibs down at least once. Sometimes with paper, sometimes with scotchbrite.
I like solvent base stains or NGR dyes for speed. Water base has too much grain raising for my liking, but they're getting better and I haven't tried near all that's out there.
Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
I was involved with one of the leading companies in the early years of WB finish, Hydrocoat. And worked side by side with a great finisher who was also an assoc ed. at FWW and an author of a Taunton book , Michael Dresdner. I conducted seminars with him on the process of change over, and was a sales rep for Hood Finishing and Hydrocoat.
I believe your method is fine for you, but I'd not be employing it in my business, I prefer a more polished and refined end product and so do the musicians I have done finishing for.
So I have refrained from comment to avoid any flame wars.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
I can appreciate that Sphere. I would never try this refinishing process on anything as important as a musical instrument or fine furniture. After all wasn't the unique sound of a Stradivarius attributable at least in part to the finish applied. Thanks for holding back on the fire.
Shellac will withstand a great deal of water for a reasonably long period of time.. I had a air conditioner running and spilling it's condensation for hours on my floor. I wiped up the water (in the dark) and expected to see the shellac turn white in the morning.. (its a very easy repair requiring no sanding) Nope everything was fine..
If you spill booze it's also no real problem.. If it's wiped up reasonably quickly. You see beer is about 12% alcohol as in wine and most mixed drinks Now if you spill 80 proof single malt scotch (neat) you have less time but what are you doing wasting single malt scotch? What are you? A heathen?
Anyway 80 proof means it's 40% alcohol (60% water)
Shellac nor any other finish will prevent the wood from being dented but the repair of shellac is extremely simple.. minor scratches can be erased by simply rubbing with denatured alcohol. Serious damage such as prolonged exposure to water will require removal of the old shellac done again by simply removing it with denatured alcohol and refinishing..
Many would probably call me a heathen but probably not for spilling fine scotch. :) Thanks for the info on shellac. I thought I had settled on Waterlox for my floors but am reconsidering. Easy repair is really important to me.
I guess it's all opinion, but I personally prefer the look of oil poly and/or shellac somewhere in the process. It makes the wood grain do things a water based can't. Like ballroom dancing compared to my wife getting her toes stomped by me.
Of course, some boys have learnt how to fix that issue. But they're pros and use materials not found at the big boxes, include additional coats of primary sealants, and sand/scrape much more. The HVLP is assumed to get the quality of finish we want.
Edited 2/1/2009 10:02 am by peteshlagor
I don't disagree that there are probably methods available to get a better, or at least, a more preferred finish. I use Tung oil products like Waterlox and others on some projects. I've also used oil based stains with water-based poly over it for some interesting effects. I also should have added that some woods require a pre-stain be applied before finishing. I tried doing without and learned a hard lesson.I thought others might be interested in this method because it offers:
- speed and turn-around time from fit to install
- minimal sanding and exposure to particulates (I hate sanding and wearing a filter)
- minimal (water) clean-up and volatile air emissions
- no messing with solvents or anything else I can't send down the drain
- minimal moving between sanding area and finishing area. I have a small shop so I have to cleanup after sanding before I can start finishing.