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My 1910 house is in dire need of a good paint job and has at least one coat of lead paint.
If I use a product like the “paint shaver” or “paint sander” which eliminates/limits the dust by attaching the tool to a shop vac with 2 stage filter which captures 99.97% of 0.3 micron particles…is this good enough to cover me in the case of liability?
My across the street neighbor is a lawyer with 2 small children and I don’t want to cause them health problems.
I was thinking about scraping as much of the paint off as possible and then using the above sanding and shop-vac with high efficiency filter.
The 99.97% at .3 micron spec is rated at what is called “Hepa-filter” but the shop vac people who manufacture the filters don’t use that language probably because their lawyers won’t allow them.
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Hi Seattle guy,
The use of the vacuum attached sander with the Hepa-filter is generally for the benefit of the user, not the neighbourhood.
I doubt that your home is the only one with lead based paint and anyone claiming damages would have to prove source.
Having said that, do take all the precautions recommended and it would't hurt to contact your local dept. of workplace safety and ask them if they have any factsheets on the subject, for your jurisdiction.
Gabe
*If you have to remove the old paint, isn't there some way to "strip" it without sanding?...thereby avoiding the dust but still removing the paint? - jb
*You can never escape all liability, at least not for having to defend against a suit. I would think your ability to defend would depend on how closely you followed current requirements in your state for lead paint abatement and removal, particularly standard practices for containing debris (dust and chips) containing lead paint.Your state Department of Environmental Protection (or DNR or DEC or whatever) is probably the primary source. Your local board of Realtors may offer educational courses on these regulations since they meet or exceed minimum federal requirements which include provisions that are triggered on the conveyance of a residence.Removal by a licensed and insured contractor seems to be very expensive, which is the attraction in DIY. But an insured contractor assumes much of the liability, assuming their insurance is on an occurrance basis (that is coverage lasts beyond the current premium period) and they stay in business (or maybe if you're an additional named insured).Some friends are facing the same decision here in CT, except their concern is their own three little kids. Interested in any technical feedback.
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I run a govt. sponsorsed lead abatement program. for the diyer. try wet scraping over 6 mil plastic do not do it on windy days. do not sand! threre are new less expensive encapslants that work on nearly all loose paint conditions. use protection,
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Wasn't there an article in one of the older FHB on removing lead paint with some kind of paint stripper????
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My methods are to wear a HEPA respirator, do some wet scraping (and dry scraping, I'll admit), and some heat stripping (heat plate to below scorching temps), over concrete or painter's plastic. Because of 100 years of lead paint on my house, I am also going to remove the upper 12" of soil from my yards and haul it to a lead-contaminated soil disposal site (ours is free to homeowners!).
I know it is improper, but I still do some sanding, mostly of the weathered bare wood, but also round off the edges of adhered paint... It's a tough tradeoff, quality prep work or not?
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I regret to see concerns here about liability outranking concerns about safety.
My understanding is that the most common method of lead ingestion is not the eating-paint-chips scenario, but the inhalation of fine dust released by abrasion in lead painted sash and doors. Lead causes organ damage and serious developmental abnormalities. If I saw someone blasting the paint off a lead-painted house up the block from my 3 year-old, my first call would be to the police not the lawyer. Once the county and state dept. of environmental protection were done with them a lawsuit wouldn't be necessary.
Do not sand. Either hire a trained contractor, encapsulate the lead, use appropriate methods or removal, or move (yep, with appropriate disclosure). The pseudo-HEPA consumer filter is almost certainly too coarse for the job. You are right to worry about the children across the street ... and worry about your own health too.
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Seattle Guy-
PLEASE PLEASE DON'T SAND! Our child was exposed to the lead of house paint blasted and sanded off the house next to her daycare. She quickly developed elevated levels. The daycare had to close, one child went to the hospital - DON'T DO IT. I'll agree with Andrew on this one - the publicly available HEPA filters probably won't be great, try to get one from a chemical supply house or other professional supplier. Then, chemically strip, encapsulate, whatever. Our local train station was abated using "PeelAway" under tents. (It was winter, but might not be a bad idea anyway.) The workers said it was easier, cleaner, and more thorough than abrasives. Especially great for detailed areas. Drape the ground in plastic, double bag it, etc. Don't use a heat gun, lead fumes are worse than lead dust!
There is a lot of skepticism about health hazards such as asbestos and lead. Some feel that the regulations about them are overboard - maybe, but lead is far more hazardous than asbestos, so don't take any chances.
I guess if it were my house I would tent a section and chemically strip, wearing disposable overalls or scrubs and with a commercial grade mask. Then prep and prime before going on to the next section . So what if my house looked a bit funny for a summer - I and my neighbors would know I was doing a good, safe job. My family, my pets, and my neighbors will all thank me.
*I would not say that I am putting safety before my concern with liability.I was under the impression that the HEPA filter would remove 99.97% of all particles and therefore protect me and the entire neighborhood. It seems that people don't believe so, but I haven't heard why the HEPA filter wouldn't be good enough (studies, dust size, i.e the paint scraper removing and keeping the paint in small chunk size instead of find dust...)Ok, Let's change the topic slightly and move to "What is the best/cost effective/least labor chemical paint stripper I can find, and where can I find it, how much can I expect to pay for it, and other peoples experiences with this procedure?"
*Don't sand the paint off. The danger of raisingfine lead dust is just too great.Instead, I'd strongly recommend using a safechemical stripper like Peel Away: basically, youapply the stuff, and put this paper over it, andlet it sit for maybe 24 hours or so. There's no dust raised, and the paint comes right off. Peel Away 1 is lye-based, so it discolors the wood, but the milder Peel Away products (numbered 6 and 7 and 21) work great. It doesn't even make smelly, toxic fumes. Check out http://www.dumondchemicals.com for more information, or email me at [email protected] for advice on how to use the stuff.
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Actually, I didn't think you were either, but that the conversation was drifting that way. People see the word "lawyer" and begin to froth...
First, there is a lot published on this at the EPA and elsewhere; plus lead abatement contractors to talk to. Second, do you have to strip it at all? If the old layers of paint are in decent shape, just remove what's loose and paint over them -- that's how most lead paint is encapsulated. If the siding is bad off, maybe's it's easier just to remove it and kill two birds.
Going to bare wood is the most difficult and involves nasty chemicals. For smaller jobs, I have seen "Peel-away" used -- available from William Alden much cheaper than HD -- which is chemical but uses a plastic membrane to prevent the goop from drying out before it has done its work. Next day, you can peel the whole mess off, supposedly. I talked to a painter who redid a porch up the block with it and he seemed pleased, I'm going to try it soon.
*Is there an echo around here? :)
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A few years ago I was certified to abate lead in Massachusetts. The only method allowed here then (and it may have changed)is wet scraping. While using a hepa vacuum at the same time might help, sanding is still not recommended.
Simply use a plant mist bottle to make the paint heavier. Keep the surface very wet. Keep a file handy and resharpen your scraper as needed. It requires some muscle, but goes faster than you'd imagine. (I'm currently scraping my 1907 house)
You'll want to put continuous plastic on the ground with contractor grade duct tape to seal overlaps and to attach to house. HepaVacuum and wash all surfaces with TSP (0r TSP Substitute).
Keep a tub of water with tsp to wash your hands and everything that comes in contact.
Your clothes will be contaminated (assuming you don't use tyvek.)So change immediately after working. Of course wear a properly fitting hepa filter mask yourself.
There's a lot more but don't want to give the whole course away. This stuff is poison for adults as well as children. Although effects on children are more insidious.
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My 1910 house is in dire need of a good paint job and has at least one coat of lead paint.
If I use a product like the "paint shaver" or "paint sander" which eliminates/limits the dust by attaching the tool to a shop vac with 2 stage filter which captures 99.97% of 0.3 micron particles...is this good enough to cover me in the case of liability?
My across the street neighbor is a lawyer with 2 small children and I don't want to cause them health problems.
I was thinking about scraping as much of the paint off as possible and then using the above sanding and shop-vac with high efficiency filter.
The 99.97% at .3 micron spec is rated at what is called "Hepa-filter" but the shop vac people who manufacture the filters don't use that language probably because their lawyers won't allow them.