I’m demoing my bathroom and need to remove the existing tile and mud job. The walls on the other side of the bathroom walls are plaster over wood lath and ceramic tile over a mud job. To minimize the damage to the plaster and the tiled wall I’m planning on using a circular saw to cut through the grout joints and the mud job. I’m looking for a recommendation for what type of blade to use. I’m assuming I need a diamond blade to cut through the mud. I’ve done a little research on the internet but there are a multitude of blades available. Does anyone have any recommendations – type and brand? I’ll be cutting through grout, mud and metal lath.
Thanks for your help.
Edited 8/24/2007 10:49 am ET by mattt19
Replies
Yes, you can do it with a circular saw... but I would recommend you get a 7" or 9" right angle grinder instead. Your will have more control and get closer to the edges. Get the dry blade that looks like a flower instead of a solid disk for more aggresive cutting. The problem is that tile is basicly glass, so be very carefull.
Another tool to consider is a rotary hammer like the Bosch Bulldog, equiping it with a wide blade to easily chip off those tiles. Plaster on the other side should be OK.
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Oh, good Lord, no. But I can give him two dollars and an assault rifle.
Mattt,
Dry-cut diamond blade and dust collection is the right combination.
These folks (http://www.dustmuzzle.com/pages/price_list.shtml) sold me one to fit a Skil 77, and one for the mini grinder. Without collection, this is an extremely dusty, unpleasant job.
Bill
Hi Bill,Thanks for the link (http://www.dustmuzzle.com/pages/price_list.shtml)I checked it out, unfortunately it will only work with a left mounted blade (worm drive). I have a Milwaukee circular saw that doesn't have a dust port or any kind of optional dust collection system. Is their anything similar to the dustmuzzle that will work with a saw with the blade on the right?Thanks Matt
Matt,I do not know of another product like the Dust Muzzle, sorry. What about buying a beater used worm drive saw just for this sort of work? I have one dedicated to this use. Putting on the Muzzle takes a bit of time, and I would not want to tie up my only saw with it.Bill
what Paul said...
there is an off set chisel just for tile that works well in an SDS... it's called a tile chisel..
going this route avoids a termendous amout of dust and mess...
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WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
My way - I hate the dust of sawing!
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Forrest
No intentions of Hijacking this thread...however, I am demoing a bath right now and had a couple questions. The bath in question has been "de-commisioned" and the wall adjoining our master bedroom will be removed (already in progress). Our bedroom will gain aproximately 3 ft of space as well as large closet. The wall being removed is plaster and wood lath circa 1900 and I have been trying to take it out in small pieces with sections of plaster and lath still attached to the cut section of stud. Ive burned through 3 sawzall blades and only gotten 2 2'x3' sections. are there any blades that hold up well to old plaster and would still be able to rip through a 100yr old stud?
I'd love to have less clean up time, but it seams like I'll have to remove the plaster first unless I want to spend $200 buck in blades!
-J
The problem is that rock and wood require very different cutting blades. You are better off I think grinding though to the studs, stripping them bare, then cutting out the old wood.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Oh, good Lord, no. But I can give him two dollars and an assault rifle.
Generally, plaster is removed seperately from the lath. Use a wide square shovel to get the plaster off and haul it out. Then remove the bottom couple of rows of lath to get all the plaster that has fallen to the bottom of the bay, then remove the rest of the lath.Much dust. Plastic everything off. Under ideal conditions, have a trash chute out the window and slide all the debris to a container.
<are there any blades that hold up well to old plaster and would still be able to rip through a 100yr old stud?>
In a word, no.
Plaster eats everything; lathe wants small teeth; studs want big teeth.
I tend to peel all the plaster with a flat bar or rip hammer by pulling off lath starting at the top; toss the wood lath behind me; let the plaster fall down. Shovel plaster out into the truck; throw the lighter wood lath on top. Saw out the studs as a separate activity.
Forrest
I've used a drycut diamond blade in an anglr grinder to cut thru plaster - it runs thru the stuff like butter. Cut the plaster to the lath, remove it in chunks, or whack it to make it fall off. Take lath off separately. Grinder will generate a metric ton of dust, so plan accordingly.
I've only used the diamond blade/grinder trick for smaller plaster removal (4'x4'). Anything larger and I just get out the sledge.
Don't forget your mask, whatever you do. And I have some spoggles that are foam lined to keep the dust out of my eyes. Sometimes referred to as chemical goggles.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
My concern about using a rotary hammer is that I would crack the plaster that's on the other side of the wall. The walls are made out of 2 by 3's with plaster on one side and tile on the other. How strong are the vibrations from the hammer? Using the hammer is tempting but I'm more concerned about being able to demo the bath without damaging the plaster than I am about the amount of dust the saw will generate (thanks to the link for the dust shield).Thanks,Matt
I haven't had cracking problems, but that job was 2x4 with DW on the other side. The Bosch RH is variable speed, at least.
Cutting with a grinder would certainly minimize any vibration.
Forrest
I was faced with the same problem on my Sister's house. I went shopping for a suitable blade and ended up buying a small wet or dry tile saw from Home Desperate, similar to this one.
http://cgi.ebay.com/MARBLE-TILE-GRANITE-CERAMIC-WOOD-ELECTRIC-CIRCULAR-SAW_W0QQitemZ230172702080QQihZ013QQcategoryZ20790QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
It was about $50, and did a great job. It is not a "pro" grade tool, but I fugured that if it finished the one job it was money well spent. That was about 6-years ago, and i have used it for a lot of things since.
Jigs,The problem with the tile saw is that it will only cut 1 3/16 " deep and I'm looking at a wall 1 1/2 - 2" deep. Also, no attachment for dust .Jeff,I'm more or less resigned to using a circular saw to remove the mud wall. Anything else I'm afraid would crack the plaster wall on the other side of the bath. Their are already cracks in the wall and the house is closing in on 100 so I'm concerned about the durability of the plaster.Looks like a used/cheap worm drive, diamond blade and the dust muzzle is what I'll be using.Bill - how much of the dust does the muzzle capture?Thanks all,MattMatt
I have the opportunity to pick up a Festool TS 75 for little more than the price of a worm drive and a dust muzzle. Would it work for this application? How well does the dust collection work and do you have to use their vac? Would the saw be ruined by the dust?
I know that this isn't the normal application for this saw but I'd have more use for it once this job is done than a worm drive. I tried looking in the archives for info but people seem to love or hate Festool, making this decision harderMatt
> Would the saw be ruined by the dust? I have used circular saws with abrasive blades to cut brick. I doubt your saw will be ruined by the dust of this operation. You might try tying a piece of fabric over the cooling air intakes, though I didn't do that with my cutting. I wasn't cutting indoors, though.George Patterson
Matt,The muzzle gets over 95% of the dust, so long as the saw's shoe is on the wall.The Festool 75 is also very good at collecting the dust, but using one for demoing a tile job is just wrong. It is like using a Maserati to pull stumps on the farm! Rough work demands rough tools. The worm is the bomb for this application.Billedited to add: You probably won't kill the Festool on one bathroom, but you run the risk of compromising the many precision components that have no business doing tile demo. I understand the longing to have the tool when you are done, if finish is what you mostly do. If you do it, tape off the shoe to protect it from the grit, and really clean the whole tool right afterward. You may also need to buy the diamond blade from Festool, as the arbor is not 5/8".Any good vacuum will work. Use a paper bag liner in the vac to save the primary filter. You may need to plug the vac into a different circuit than the saw, depending on the amps drawn. 20 Amp circuits can generally run my 13A Skil 77 and the auto-on Wap vac I use.Bill
Edited 9/19/2007 2:47 am by BillBrennen
Hi Bill,Thanks for the info. That's kind of what I thought about using the Festool for demo. I bought the dustmuzzle and a reconditioned skil saw so I'm good to go. When cutting though the mud do you usually make several shallow passes or one deep cut? Will the metal lath damage the diamond blade? I recall on either this or the JohnBridge forum someone stopping just short of the lath and cutting through it with a sawz-all. Anyone think this is necessary?ThanksMatt
Matt,If the mud is weak and crumbly, one deep pass does the job. If the mud job is really stout, then several lighter passes is easier on the saw and the operator.Diamond blades are not designed to cut through a lot of steel/iron, but the diamond lath should pose no problem at all. Concrete demo guys cut thru rebars all the time with diamond blades, in the course of cutting walls, etc.Bill
What's the period of the bathroom? There's a good chance that the mortar has asbestos in it.
Bathroom was redone in the 80's (1980's). I'm assuming there's no asbestos risk?
I would assume so. Asbestos was removed from building products in the 70s.George Patterson
You can use a reciprocating saw with a demolition blade.Or
use a grinder with a 4.5 " diamond blade specifically for ceramic cost @ $20 per blade
not sure where your tile is ...
for baths with tile wainscot and shower walls ...
over plaster ... be it wood lath ... razor wire lath ... or roch lath ...
I cut along the tile / plaster wall line with the sawzaw held almost flat to the wall.
then ... sledge or maul a hole in the tile near the top.
insert mattocks along a stud and rip up.
that'll open most walls.
if need be ... cut into sections like that pic posted ... with a chissel bit in the demo hammer. Then use the mattocks to seperate the pieces.
once U get an access hole ... the mattocks is yer friend.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa