Okay, the title is weird, but it was intended to be an attention getter. : ) Now, here’s my question…
Subfloor was laid some time ago. September to be exact. Glued and nailed w/ ringshanks. I managed to screw down the main floor at the time, but I got sidetracked, and haven’t gotten around to the second floor.
I’m wondering, is it too late to screw it down? Made mention of my intention to do it to someone else and was told, “Nah, the glue has set, and you it won’t make a difference if you screw it down.” I’m like, “Huh?”
Am I wrong? Is it worth the time/trouble at this point? Will screwing it down now make a difference in preventing unwanted subfloor movement later?
Jason
Replies
How many nails and what kind di you use?
It can't hurt to add screws but is it worth it?
depends what you have already
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
If your subfloor is ply it would make little difference in terms of movement if you used screws but would add a lot to the time involved.
If the subfloor is solid wood, movement is more of an issue, but overall not much- I'd still just nail it at angles, and be done with it.
Expert since 10 am.
I build homes here in the South and always nail, glue and screw my subfloors because of the humidity fluctuations and movement in the rest of the house rather than in the Advantech subfloor. It is a very minimal charge to have it done, and I think well worth the cost. It always amazes me how many nail heads are sticking up after the floor is screwed down.
And to answer your original question, I don't typically screw my floors until just prior to insulation, to allow the house to be 100% dried in and eliminate the possibility of water getting into the structure on the floor. So I don't think that you would be doing any harm in screwing down the second floor at this particular time, especially if it were plywood and you were planning on putting carpet down over it.
You didn't say whether you had regular dimensional lumber (2x10, 2x12) for joists or used manufactured joists.
In my opinion, this makes a huge difference in what will likely happen down the road. Regular lumber will shrink and swell with the seasons, sometimes dramatically, and this could lead to breaking the glue bond and having squeaks because of movement on the nails.
I would definitely screw the floor down, no matter what joist material you used.
I never use regular lumber anymore for floor joists. I have learned my lesson. I have never had a squeak or any type of floor failure in any house we have built since I started using I-joists, PL Premium, and screws.
JasonQ
You've touched off the screws verses nails debate. Hairy chested guys who feel a need to bash stuff are strong advocate of nails and are blind to their limitations..
Those of us who prefer to use our intellect rather than our Braun are willing to take the added time required to screw things together to gain the benefits that screws have over nails..
I screwed my floor and I'm happy with the results even if it took me massively more time than nails would have..
So do it my way or I'll flick a booger on your computer screen <G>
To answer questions posed...
1) Subfloors are 3/4 Structurwood Gold OSB.
2) Fastening was done by the framers w/ ringshanks.
3) 1st floor framing is 14" I-joists, 16 OC. 2nd floor is 12", same spacing.
As far as time goes...well, I *did* spring for one of those self-feed Senco screwguns last fall, and it made fairly quick work of screwing down the first floor.
My main concern here is that, although the floors are in fact PL400'ed down and ringshank-nailed, glue fails, and nails do too. Kinda a belt-and-suspenders approach, I agree, but it's cheap insurance, innit?
Jason
ok I'll jump in, I want to screw down 1/2 osb over my old crappy sub-floor (tongue and groove 1x6) What kind of screws do I use? I have one of those Senco guns that use the screws that are attached to plastic strips.
CRaig
use glue, then screw at 6" OC both ways. Any darn screw you want. It's the glue that will do the job you are looking for.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
i just had this issue with a friend's house. new construction, lousy builder. finally fired the guy,and asked me to look around his house before it gets rocked.
i told him to stiffen the bouncy floor with 3/4" t&g, a lot of glue,and any screws even Piffin screws!
Well, to stir the pot some more...
OSB is not a good material to use if you are depending on glue to hold. I have often seen the 1st layer of flakes ripped right off the OSB, with the glue holding tight to it.
PL400 is not anywhere near the quality of PL Premium. It will skin over in a matter of seconds on a hot day, making a good bond impossible.
Ring shank nails don't come out of the joists, they pull through the OSB enough to cause squeaks. Clipped head ring shanks should never be used on a floor.
The formula for the best floor is: I-Joists, Advantech, PL Premium, screws. This is a guarantee for success every time! It is worth it for me as a builder to spend a little more money up front and never hear a complaint about the floor thereafter.
Edited 1/11/2007 5:17 pm ET by BoJangles
There are other advantages of the PL premium.
It expands because it is a polyurethene glue, so voids get filled.
It expands ( oh, did i say that already?) so less glue goes further, by about 2.2 to one tubes.
It is a polyurethene adhesive ( redundant ain't I ?) so it cures in wet wood
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
and....it stores in the tubes for a long time, it doesn't skin over very fast, it is super strong and doesn't come off of your hands for weeks, it sticks to almost anything, it is the highest temperature rated construction adhesive ( for those interested in sauna building ) and lastly, it will jump off of whatever you put it on and attach to your tools, clothes, and boots even if you were careful not to get near it!
"2) Fastening was done by the framers w/ ringshanks."Not an answer6d ?
8d ?
how often?Still, it can't hurt a thing to add screws. If the question is should you, then need to know what fastening you have now.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
This has nothing to do with the nails vs screws debates. I t has to do with the length of time he has let the glue set and whaether he originally had enough fastenrs
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffan,
Don't be a spoil sport! This should be good for at least 100 posts while all the hairy chested types tell me I'm nuts!
Then let me be the first to gratify you.You are insane!now quit feeling lonely and get back to handing out bad advice;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Auto-feed screw gun + extension - absolutely.
I scored an older Quik Drive system for $40 at a woodworkers yard sale - he didn't know if it was still current. Simpson updates your attachment and extension FREE, so you'll still buy their screws. Coulda been the best tool deal I've made. Still, invest - these don't take THAT much more time than nailing
Piffan,
If we're really gonna get the count up you've simply Gotta be more contraversal!
It's not enough to simply insult me and let it go at that, you're beginning to sound like a typical conservative. If I don't agree then insult.
I know you're capable of much more than that.. Should I Give out the source again where I proved that screws are superior to nails? Is that what you want?
Probably be a more powerful argument if you reported which deisel you drive
screws
with
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Hey, Frenchy! If you are going to use your intellect, then spell correctly brawn! ;-)
"Those of us who prefer to use our intellect rather than our Braun are willing..."
BTW, I use nails instead of screws.
Be safe!
Why not save a lot of time and money and use #8 (2 1/2") screw gun nails. They actually turn as the gun drives them in! Pretty cool huh? LOL
Anyone have experience with nail screws - UFO Ballistic from McFeely's or others?
You got kids? I screwed my floors 4 months after they were laid. I missed a spot. Only squeak in the whole house, right in the middle of my two year olds floor. Couldn't check on her without a loud creak. You ready to listen to your wife's "compliments" on your handiwork if you don't do it?
Deskguy,
I'm going to lave several squeeks in the stairs,, just to wake me up when one of the girls tries to sneak out of the house!
Ha! I've got daughters, and a couple of squeeky stairs that are NOT getting fixed. Adds character to the early '60s colonial.
They'll not only sqeak as notifiers, but as identifiers...I grew up with four brothers in a house with sqeaky stairs. In time, I could tell which of them was on the way up the steps by the way they sqeaked.After being gone from home for a few years, I went back for a visit. I was relaxing in the bed and reading when one bro came on up and I was suprised to realize that I still knew from the sound which one he was long before he got all the way up.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
She's only 3 1/2. They'll probably be squeaking by the time I need them to.
You ready to listen to your wife's "compliments" on your handiwork if you don't do it?
Eh...they'd just blend right in with the incessant din of all the other complaints. : )
Ackshually, she doesn't even care if I do it or not.
I figure on just doing it. Won't take that long, and peace of mind alone is well worth it. It'll have to wait, tho - we had inspection today, and I've gotta scramble to get the minor fixes and blocking done so we can insulate and get the drywallers in.
(Wishing we had insulation in *now*. Was -10F this morning - at that temp, even two big LP heaters don't make much of a dent. )
Jason
It'll have to wait, tho - we had inspection today, and I've gotta scramble to get the minor fixes and blocking done so we can insulate and get the drywallers in.
That's pretty much why mine didn't get screwed down till the day the carpet was getting laid. Have fun with the build, it'll get less hectic as you go along........(laughing to myself as I try to say that with a straight face)