Replies

1. 
   Bill_Duckworth | Apr 14, 1999 12:14am | #1

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   No such thing as a flawless seam in plastic laminate. The jig to rout both pieces at once is the best option. Applying contact cement with a spray gun helps, too--it leaves a smoother surface, which gives you a tighter, more consistent seam to the substrate. (Worth the investment in equipment? Only if you're doing production work.)

2. 
   Guest_ | Apr 14, 1999 12:48am | #2

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   If you work with WilsonArt laminate, try to steer them toward the "Nebulas" (at least 1/2 my customers choose them anyway) for whatever reason, they seem to hide seams a lot better for me. There is probably a similar line in other brands as well - the nebulas are a bit more expensive, but well worth it to me.

   One other thing you might try is using a micrometer to measure the thickness where two pieces abutt. I usually have to flip one over and belt sand slightly.

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 14, 1999 05:33am | #3

   *Hello,I have had success double face taping the two pieces laminate to a straight edge (one at a time) and then butting them together. I believe Porter Cablemakes a tool called a seam router, but unlessyou make your livelyhood doing laminate workit's probably not worth the investment.Good Luck,Mike Meriskowww.sawkerfs.com(under construction)

3. 
   Jay_M. | Apr 14, 1999 05:35am | #4

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   Wayne,

   I route both pieces at once like you do but I use white hpl glue instead of contact. The difference is amazing!

4. 
   Guest_ | Apr 14, 1999 05:36am | #5

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   Hello,

   I have had success double face taping the two pieces laminate to a straight edge and then
   butting them together. I believe Porter Cable
   makes a tool called a seam router, but unless
   you make your livelyhood doing laminate work
   it's probably not worth the investment.

   Good Luck,

   Mike Merisko

   http://www.sawkerfs.com(under construction)

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 14, 1999 05:57am | #6

   *Sorry, hpl glue?

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 14, 1999 06:56am | #7

   *yeh, whatup with hpl?

5. 
   Jay_M. | Apr 15, 1999 03:43am | #8

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   Yes,

   I use hpl glue (made by Titebond) it's basically elmers glue. I don't use contact for countertops only backsplashes. If you use white glue for countertop fabrication you can slide the pieces together and you stretch a good packing tape like 3M across the seam like a large band-aid and the pressure from the stretching of the tape holds it together. Overall a white glue top cannot be compared as far as the laminate sticking to the substrate as compared to contact cement.
   Take 2 scraps of wood and 2 scraps of laminate. Contact one and use any white glue but hpl (high pressure laminate) is better and glue the other. Give it a day or two and peel off the contact. It's easy enough look at the laminate a piece or two of wood. Now peel off the white glue laminate. If your substrate is a real good quality it will come off in many little pieces. It it is the usuall grade countertop deck with cheap glue the back of the laminate will be covered with wood particles like a piece of laminate felt. The glue in the particle board fails before the white glue adhering to the laminate.

   With white glue you have quite a few minutes so you can get the seam perfect. The downside to white glue. Many clamps!
   Jay

1. 
   Cliff_Cyr | Apr 15, 1999 04:16am | #9

   *I lightly glue the laminate to an aluminum straight edge and route them. I dry check them and if the fit is satisfactory, I will glue them down. When I glue them down, I use some old PVC vertical blinds. I place these on the countertop when the glue is dry and then I place the laminateon top jof the verticals. This allows me to slide the laminates together and get a very tight fit.There are obviously many different ways to do it right. Luckily we have a forum like this where we can pick other craftsmen's brains.

6. 
   Guest_ | Apr 15, 1999 06:02am | #10

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   I...don't quite know what to say. Are you saying Titebond makes a PVA glue for plastic laminate? I just went looking for a Titebond ad, I'll have to look more tomorrow. I'm flummoxxed. I'm completely taken aback. Does everyone know about this but me?

7. 
   Jay_Malaspino | Apr 15, 1999 06:28am | #11

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   Adrian,

   It is made by Titebond and is call "cold press for hpl". I just read it right off the bucket. I've had pretty good luck with this but I have also used other brands. I buy it in the 5 gallon buckets and it costs with shipping about $42. It lasts much, much, longer than contact.

   I do not know what a PVA glue is. The hpl glue looks just like elmers glue yet maybe a little thicker.

   Another disadvantage of white glue countertops is that they are unrepairable. For example when I glue the edge band first and then the deck. I have had the router bit spin a bearing and fly off. You can't heat the edge and take it off. You have to route it off. The glue holds so good it comes off in pieces about 1" square. The many pluses in my opinion outweigh the few disavantages many times over. I can look at the edge of a countertop and tell if it's mine or a contact top without even flipping it over.

   Jay

1. 
   Bill_Duckworth | Apr 15, 1999 07:45am | #12

   *Stuff sounds great. Is it waterproof like contact cement?

8. 
   Guest_ | Apr 15, 1999 09:35am | #13

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   Jay - do you spread both surfaces and let it dry like contact? - yb

9. 
   Dan_McGuire | Apr 15, 1999 11:36am | #14

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   Try using a strait edge with a bearing over pattern bit. If both edges are strait, then they should go together tightly. Use 3M water based contact. Lay the laminates onto the substrate lightly, move them around until the seam is tight, roll it down starting at the joint. The 3M glue will let you do some slight moving of the laminates before you press them down

1. 
   Jay_Malaspino | Apr 15, 1999 02:11pm | #15

   *Young Bob, Yes, you have to spread it on both surfaces. No you can not let it dry. In fact if the phone rings or someone comes over I have to ignore them unless they want to help. Go to the lumber yard and buy a quart of any white glue and make a small 1' counter with it an after a day tell me it's not the tightest counter you ever made. If you like the results, the bond (100's of % better), the greatly reduced cost, lack of fumes (the main reason in the beginning) and lack of call backs, just post again and I'll explain in detail how to fabricate with white glue.Jay

10. 
    Guest_ | Apr 15, 1999 04:24pm | #16

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    I must look into this. It must take you considerably longer to do a countertop than with contact though?

11. 
    SteveM_ | Apr 17, 1999 05:39am | #17

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    Well Guy's ( Gal's) it's finally time to let the cat out of the bag. I have been wondering if there is a demand for this info and I now see there is.The trick to this was learned from a friend Mike L who learned it on a job site a few years ago and it is pretty complicated to put into words but here goes.

    You are correct that you MUST cut both pcs of laminate at the same time. It is not so crucial that it be perfectly straight but the two when dry fitted must look EXCELLENT. Our method is to create a straight edge out of shop scraps od melamine with plastic laminate on the edge to be used for trimming. Then using spray adhesive attach the first pc to the straight edge, attach the second pc to the first pc, then run the laminate trimmer cutting both at the same time. We then check to be sure we have an excellent joint. If not repeat step one.

    Next we spray the sub-surface and both pc's of laminate. Place the large pc first. On the second pc you will need a pc of 3/8" dowel running parallell to the seam about 6" from the seam. You first press in the seam side of the second pc ensuring it is square and close to pc one. Then you press down the rest of pc two leaving the dowel there. What you now have is a pc of laminate with a 3/8" hump in it 6" from the seam. Pull the dowel out and push the laminate down forcing it toward the seam and presto, you have a compressed seam that is almost invisible. ( thant is assuming all this went well)

    I have done this numerous times and almost always it has left me very proud of my work but, when it goes bad.......

    I would try a test run at least once before trying this for real. It works very well on GP laminate but is extra dificult on postform material. I have had only marginal success on postform. If any of this is not clear contact me and I would be glad to help if I can.

    Best to all! SteveM

12. 
    Guest_ | Apr 17, 1999 08:37am | #18

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    like the dowel/hump/pressure idea! Sweet! I'm stealing that one, thanks - yb

13. 
    Wayne_Mullis | Apr 17, 1999 08:37am | #19

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    Having worked with laminate for only a few years, I would really be interested in tecniques others have found to be helpful in creating flawless seams. I've made a jig to router both pieces a once, is this the only option? P.S. These are not preforms.