All,
I tried exchanging some Craftsman hand tools the other day due to corrosion and abuse, they refused to take them back. Their warranty is quite clear “FULL UNLIMITED LIFETIME…if the hand tool fails to meet your expectations….return it for a replacement or refund of the original purchase price.”
Question?
How many out there have had this happen to them?
I did an internet search, and that seems to be their policy now. I have purchased probably $50k of tools from them over my lifetime, and paid a premium because of the warranty, and this has me peeved.
WSJ
Replies
Abuse and corrosion is on you. I can't blame them for not wanting to exchange them. Your saying your not happy with them because you don't take care of them. I see their point.
Not trying to slam you. Just looking at it from their point of view.
Rock the Tipi!
ok ok tiger.Now we need a better description of the terms corrosion and abuse in that perhaps just maybe the things sat in their case and an abusive form of unnatural corrosion formed on them.
be wishing the batteries on the 12volt panasonic drill would stay charged longer when just sitting in their case.
Beware. RFID is coming.
time fer a battery rebuild rez????Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Shoot no! Hardly used the thing since I got it. A bit after my old bosch 14.4 finally faded away but the new Bosch impact is the weapon of choice and the panasonic is now just used as a drill. I'd charged the batts before leaving on a trip and then left them in the case for two weeks in the house, when I go to drill both batts were next to nothing.Just thinking two weeks in the cool of a house and the batts should still have some juice in them is all.
be all but maybe I expect too much
Beware. RFID is coming.
wait till ya drive n 18v Bosch impact...
so much fer the 14.4....Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"time fer a battery rebuild rez????"
I guess that didnt end up to be that much of a bargain. He just bought that set not long ago.
When it looks like a deal,....
Tim
ya get what ya pay for..Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
LMAO. It's been a year and a half. Those drills are still a good deal. I use mine daily and love it. You have to take into consideration what they are and what they are for. Light weight drills for light weight use, I don't know if any of my batteries with the exception of my Lithium Ions keep a full charge just sitting in the case for an extended period. One bonus is it only takes a few minutes to bring them back up. Mine aren't as bad as Rez's. Of course I'm pretty fussy with how I treat my batteries.
Rock the Tipi!
yeah, I ain't going to ask for my $35bucks back. ROAR!I intentionally charged 'em right before I left with the idea of being ready when the time came. Took awhile since I needed them now that the impact driver arrived on the scene.Just seemed odd to me that 2 weeks in the case inside out of the sun and both batts were almost completely pooped, no power to turn more than air.
be I'd buy the same drill again for that money.
Beware. RFID is coming.
My 15.6v Panasonic batteries do the same thing. Because of it, I've only used the Multi-Driver a half dozen or so times. Batteries are always dead when I need it. It's somewhere in the basement now. :(View Image
Gunner,
You miss my point, the tools were purchased under a "Full unlimited lifetime warranty" Had it been a limited Warranty you are correct. The UCC is very explicit that if you decide to offer one (and almost nobody does) you have to honor it.
WSJ
I agree. Unless it's specifically excluded in the fine print in the warranty, the corrosion should be covered.
I picked up a rusted 1-1/16" Craftsman combination wrench at a flea market once for a buck or two; took it to the local Sears store, and they exchanged it, no questions asked.
"I agree. Unless it's specifically excluded in the fine print in the warranty, the corrosion should be covered."
Torn,
That's my point, there currently is no, nor was there ever any "fine print".
All past and present marketing EXPRESSLY (not implied) and the warranty states you can exchange the tools (or at their option refund the original purchase price) for what ever reason if you are not happy with them.
They for years, and still to this day use the warranty as a marketing/sales tool, but now they don't honor it.
WSJ
I'm with you. I just read through the whole thread and to be honest, I'm surprised by the responses. I know what the warranty says and all that but a little common sense would fit in perfectly right about now.
And we wonder why Craftsman only makes garbage now?!?! Every time I see a carpenter using a Craftsman tape measure I can pretty much bet we've got a moocher on site.... that's the guy that will be conveniently absent everytime it's his turn to buy coffee. You can only go to the well so many times.....
Everyone thinks they're getting a great deal. I have to wonder how much all those trips to Sears and back actually costs. Probably about as much as a decent Snap-On.
I'd be embarassed to try to exchange a tool that I had obviously abused or neglected to take care of. And throwing a "hissy fit" in a store? You gotta be kidding me. My dignity is worth more than a 1/2" ratchet any day of the week.View Image
its not sear itself but the manager of the store. although the warrenty is forever, it does come out of his bottom end. Its been like this for twenty years. I have had problems too, Just clean them up. throw in a box. next time you need screwdrivers or something, take the box. the high price sear charge is because they know they will come back. The tools itself is no better than HD tools but with an added insurance price added to it. They know most people will not bring them back.Couple months ago I had to break a torx bolt on my jeep , so I went to sear with the jeep, bought the bit. In the parking lot I had to break the bolt loose. I broke six torx bits that day in the parking lot. They change everyone of them.
I know how it works BB. I'm sorry but that's just.....well.... cheap. Just because you can, doesn't always mean you should.
Just my opinion... and you know what they say about opinions. I'm obviously in the minority here anyway so apparently it's all good. Just not my idea of 'doing my part'.View Image
diesel... thanks for saying so succinctly what was thinking. My buddy used to manage the tool corral at Agent Orange and I couldn't believe the stunts people would pull. I felt like asking them "where's you self respect, really?". If I abuse an item, I take the consequences, whether it's $1.00 or $1000.00 . If the OP was legitimately dissatisfied with the tool and Sears refused I'd be behind him 100% but c'mon.
"Just because you can, doesn't always mean you should" words to live by.
I had a buddy that work at HD and he told me people would buy a drill put the old one in the box, different brand , different model and return it. half used paint. Even my buddy will return each PVC fitting he does not used.
I saw a roofer that I knew from the area bring in the most utterly trashed coil nailer I have ever seen. Rusted, covered in tar, banged to bits and demand a refund back when HD was almost as liberal as Sears. And he pitched such a loud fit that when I ran into him a few days later I asked if he realized that potential clients, not to mention other tradespeople could have seen him. "John... what'dyou think people will think of you shrieking at a poor clerk at HD about returning a tool that looks like it belongs in the dumpster?" Much as I like the guy, I hope it cost him a good job... there's just no excuse for that from a "professional"
Here's my last take on all this gobbly gook:
You guys who abuse the policy are getting just what you deserve.... another POS tool.
Let me pose this to you all. Give me one good reason why Sears (or any other tool manufacturer for that matter) would produce a ratchet with, say, a 30 year service life? Why would they do this... make a quality tool, I mean? Why would they produce a 30 year tool when they realize that the majority of them are being exchanged not for a manufacturing defect or because they have reached the end of their service life.... but because you were too ignorant to bring your tools in from the rain. Or because you used a screwdriver to chisel concrete. Or because you decided to pound sixteens with your adjustable wrench.
See what I'm saying? The tool companies (including Craftsman) are giving you exactly what you're asking for. The only paralell I can think of right now is Blue's argument about McMansions. People want crap, are only capable of taking care of crap, so they produce crap.
Why spend the money producing a top quality tool if the majority of consumers aren't capable of holding up their end of the bargain by taking simple precautions to see the tool through to the end of it's service life? By simple precautions I mean simply using the tool for it's intended purpose and generally looking after it.
You're asking for crap and you're getting it.
So, in my little brain, every one of you who jumped in the OP's corner has effectively forfeited your right to complain about the quality of tools being produced today..... cuz you're the suckers who are ordering that sh1t up like hotcakes. Everything that happens in life is a two-way street. Everything is a contract and there's always two sides to every story. I own a part of everything little thing that happens in my life. If you guys want to hide your own carelessness and irresponsibility behind some Sears warranty, then go nuts. But make no mistake about it...... you're part of the problem, not part of the solution. So you don't get to b1tch about it anymore.
And for the record: I NEVER not ONCE said that Sears was in the right by not honoring their policy. I've agreed with you all 100 times over on that point. So trying to ram that crap down my throat is a dead end street fellas.
Now.... cars packed.... I'm headed off on vacation for the week. I hope you all have an awesome 4th of July. It's been a fun little debate. To be honest.... I don't care what you do with your tools.... they're yours, not mine. I guess I just look at things differently than most people. Not saying I'm right BTW.... just offering a different view point.
And as always.... No blood, no foul.View Image
"Or because you decided to pound sixteens with your adjustable wrench."
hah! Diesel's been there! ROAR!
Beware. RFID is coming.
Why spend the money producing a top quality tool if the majority of consumers aren't capable of holding up their end of the bargain by taking simple precautions to see the tool through to the end of it's service life? "
DieselP,
You miss, still my point They (Sears) have the option of offering a 10, 20, 30 year warranty. Or a Limited warranty. The UCC clearly states that if you decide to use the three words "FULL" UNLIMITED" and "LIFETIME" you need to honor it, because people made purchases based on that. Sears has chosen not to abide by the law.
So who is more at fault?
Me for leaving a tool out in the rain> when the protective chrome plating failed to protect it, or Sears for reneging on their warranty?
WSJ
Jon,I just read this whole thread. I fundamentally agree with both your position and Dieselpig's position. Two aspects of the one truth. The only issue that seems to separate the two of you is that he has not yet agreed that what Sears is doing is wrong. It is wrong, and you have very clearly stated why that is so.The old (honored) Craftsman unlimited warranty on their hand tools got too famous, and has been taken advantage of by too many sleazebags. So Sears made a giant mistake of changing the policy IN PRACTICE without changing it IN PRINT. That makes them liars, and vulnerable to a class action suit they could lose a lot of money on.The biggest mistake that Sears made is that they chose to trade away their credibility to address the sleazebags. This causes all the honorable customers to distrust/avoid them. The public relations losses for Sears will cost much more than the money they save by no longer giving free tools to losers who scam the system. I predict that they will correct this mistake, either before or after the class-action lawsuit is filed. What they needed to do all along was to change the wording of their policy to a limited warranty. They will eventually do this, or go out of the tool business. Keeping the same stated policy but having a true policy of not honoring the printed one has brought them down to the level of the people who have been abusing the policy. It is very hard to repair one's good name after doing a thing like that.I bought a lot of Craftsman stuff when I was starting out, and have never returned one item! Their warranty was a large part of my buying decision. I really liked the idea that those hand tools were guaranteed for my lifetime. I still have most of them.Bill
>>The only issue that seems to separate the two of you is that he has not yet agreed that what Sears is doing is wrong.
Bill-
If you read it carefully, you'll notice that Diesel fully acknowledges that what Sears is doing is wrong by not honoring their stated policy. He, (and some of the rest of us) just think there are people out there who are pushing their return policy past what a reasonable, conscientious person should.
If you carry the point further, most of the people who participate in BT seem to be reasonably concerned about the environment and wasteful practices. Isn't it less wasteful of energy and material resources - therefore better for our descendants - to care for a tool and use it for a long time, than to keep trading it in for a new one, regardless of it being "free" in the short term to us?
Don
Don,You may have read it better than I did. In which case, they agree on the key points. Good!I agree about reducing waste being the right way to live. This is part of why I buy the best tools for my work, since i want to keep them a long time and not have to relearn a tool all the time with new models.I never got that business about buying cheap junk and then getting new ones all the time. Even if they are "free", my time is too valuable to keep going to the store for the same old thing.Bill
I grew up a long time ago, back when a Sears Roebuck warranty meant their Craftsman tools wouldn't fail no matter what, or they would be replaced...yer pizzing in the wind , arguing with these new kids on the job<G> I need a dump truck, baby, to unload my head
Bill,
Very well said.
Jon B.
dieselpig,
Several decades ago I bought a vaccumm from Sears I toldthe salesman That I had a lot of construction debris to cklean up and wanted something powerful enough to suck up all the joint compound I was sanding off.. (early days of my construction careeer, I thought the trick was to put plenty of joint compound on and then belt sand it level! OK, So I've learned a lot <G>)
Anyway the salesman sold me a fairly expensive one and fool that I was assummed the more expensive the better..
You've got it!
A week or so later the motor ground to a halt and popped the circuit breaker.. When I took it in and had them repair it (less than 30 days) I was astonished that they wanted to charge me very nearly what a new one would cost. No amount of discussion with anybody ever resolved that, and they were very offended that I wouldn't select the extended warrantee.
They still own it. I never paid for it.. That was the start of Sear's downfall. Sears used to be the largest retailer in America they have since fallen to #5 The overstating of their polocy is one of the reasons for that.. (that and their focus on their unsuccessful credit card business rather than retailing)
Yep. That's the reason Klein had to crack down on their exchange policy. You got too many morons frying their pliers and trying to get Klein to pay for their stupidity. Or my favorite one. Using their screw driver for a chisel and wanting a new one when the tip breaks. I admitidly use mine for a chisel sometimes. But I pay for another one when I break the tip.
Rock the Tipi!
U think backwards. You're supposed to be using the chisle for a screwdriver.if you're gonna be a chisler, at least learn to screw them the right way;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I agree with you to a point.But Craftsman has had this policy for as long as I can remember, and I'm sure much longer. I think they've encouraged people to think of Craftsman tools as being the brand that you can use & abuse and still get a new one when you're done with it.FWIW, I've only exchanged one Craftsman tool, it was a flat head screw driver that started getting sloppy.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
I guess I'm just missing the boat Jon. Ain't the first time. View Image
Maybe you are but maybe I am.I think Gunner brings up a good point about Klein. I like their tools, don't have many since I'm not an electrician, but I've never known about their return policy.On the other hand, Craftsman seems to tout that they will always take them back. You may interpret someone taking them up on that as being cheap but I look at it as being all part of their strategy. I think they want guys like Brownbagg to come in and buy a Torx bit to be broken because they know it's another chance to tempt him to buy that 10 drawer rolling cabinet he's been eyeing or their 5" angle grinder.I could be wrong, maybe I'm just rationalizing my cheapness by coming up with my own idea about Sears' marketing strategy, who knows.I will say that I think there are instances where it's wrong to take a Sears tool back. I have a friend who had the Crafsman tape that they wouldn't replace when the blade was worn out so he would squirt liquid nails in the case with about 5' of tape out and then push it back in. So now the "spring" is damaged (which is covered), not the tape blade (which is not covered). I can't agree with that behavior, even if Sears thinks it will sell them more tools.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Like I said Jon... I'm obviously in the minority here and I realize that. That tells me I stand a decent chance of being wrong. LOL... see, I'm not that dense.
But since you asked and seem to want to debate this a bit...... it's just not black and white to me. I think people always try to make the world black and white to suit their own best interest. That's bad Karma, if you ask me... you can't have it both ways. If I'm working a bolt with a Craftsman wrench and it breaks under a normal working condition... by all means... return it.
But in BB's example he knew going in that he was going to break a bunch of them. So he drives his car to Sears. Buys one bit and then works on his car in the parking lot and continues exchanging the broken bit until he finishes the job. That sounds 'normal' or 'right' to you? It just doesn't jive with me.... but again.... I'm the minority here. It just doesn't pass the gut-check.
Where does it end? So you purchase a Craftsman tool.... now you're entitled to a perfectly functional and aestheticly flawless version of that tool for the rest of your life, right? If anything less "doesn't meet your satisfaction" then I guess you're entitled to a new one.
So what if you lose it?
Personally I'd be quite 'unsatisfied' if I lost it. So does that mean that I should get a new one?
Anyway... this is getting a bit silly now. I just think that what comes around goes around. It just doesn't make sense to me that you buy something and don't bother to take care of it or use it properly just because you know you can have a new one for free any time you want.
Everyone keeps saying "it's the principle". So Sears has to have "principles"..... but we don't? Where's our "principles" when we deliberately trash a tool just because a replacement won't cost us anything? That's being a "consumer" in the truest sense of the word and I don't consider being a "consumer" to be compliment.
Nothing pizzes me off more than an employee who places no value on my tools or property just because they didn't cost him anything. Ever run across a guy like that? He breaks your stuff because it has no value to him and he knows that you'll replace it anyway.
What's the difference between his mentality and the one we're discussing here? I'm not talking about the situation... because I realize they are very different situations.... I'm talking about the mentality or mind-set in how the tools are viewed.
But even looking past all that gobbly-gook above..... the return policy that Sears has is PRETTY DANG GOOD! So they finally put their foot down when someone brings in a wrench that was left out in the rain and run over a dozen times. Now we're all screaming bloody murder! Class Action Lawsuit! I'm gonna throw a hissy-fit! I'm gonna call my lawyer! THIS IS A HYPOCRISY, A TRUE TRAVESTY OF JUSTICE!!!
LOL.... You gotta be kidding me.
C'mon.... where's the common sense in all of this? How about the guy giving instructions on how to throw a "hissy fit" in a public place? LOL.... are we serious here? Instructions? Here, let me ask my 3 year old nephew about how to get what he want in the middle of a crowded store..... his instructions are remarkably similar to the ones posted here!
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Dude you are so friggen right about the craftsman tape measure thing, two of my guys use them and it pisses me off when they try to use them stupid things.
They breakdown after they are pulled out a foot and a half, and now they have electrical taped them together since craftsman won't exchange them anymore. You would think the worlds coming to an end now that they have to buy a tape measure.
People man I just don't get them.Can't you hear the violin playing your song.
BTW.... Amazon.com has 30' Fat Max tapes for $15 last weekend. I don't know why they were marked down, but I ordered a bunch of them.View Image
I am on it, the guys won't know what to do with a good tape.Can't you hear the violin playing your song.
So you purchase a Craftsman tool.... now you're entitled to a perfectly functional and aestheticly flawless version of that tool for the rest of your life, right? If anything less "doesn't meet your satisfaction" then I guess you're entitled to a new one..................................
...........................the return policy that Sears has is PRETTY DANG GOOD! So they finally put their foot down when someone brings in a wrench that was left out in the rain and run over a dozen times. Now we're all screaming bloody murder! Class Action Lawsuit! I'm gonna throw a hissy-fit! I'm gonna call my lawyer! THIS IS A HYPOCRISY, A TRUE TRAVESTY OF JUSTICE!!! "
DieselP,
It is not. If they merely used the words "Limited Lifetime Warranty" they would be off the hook. They don't, They lie to you, plain and simple as a sales tool. Bottom line.
They still tout "a FULL UNLIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTEE"
Using those words has legal ramifications.
I tend to think Sears employs at least one lawyer...... who would have pointed out that the language in their warranty legally obligates them (at least in the USA) to replace any hand tool that was purchased no questions asked under the warranty.
The UCC is very clear on this, and if they really want to change their policy, they need to change the language of the warranty. They haven't!!!! just their return policy!
Jon B.
Sigh.
What can I say? You're right.
It's right there in print and the lawyers agree with you.
So it must be the right thing to do then.
View Image
Perfectamondo! My friend. That's exactly how I feel. Act like a man and don't take advantage of everything that comes along.
Rock the Tipi!
That sounds 'normal' or 'right' to you? It just doesn't jive with me.... but again...I agree with you. I went to that store knowing I was going to break many. I was ready to pay for each one that I broke. The store had no problem with it, They would not let me pay for each one. I got one of those once in a life time deals. I only buy craftman, snap on and mac. I had to get the job done, I wasnt mis using or abuse the tool, I just had some force on it. I have thrown away many old craftman knowing they was just too old. Screw driver I dont take back, they get abuse.
Guess I'm wrong then. We knew it was coming, right? :)
Can I borrow a wrench?View Image
no you wasnt wrong, I know people that will screw retail, just to do it,
I've got a SIL who returned plantings to HD after a year. They decided to re-landscape the yard, so she dug them up and brought them back. That kinda stuff makes me crazy. I just think it's wrong. Not to mention the fact that we all (you, me and everyone else who shops at HD) ended up paying for those bushes.
I apologize for using your experience as an example. I only got half the story the first time around and ran with it. After reading your second post, your situation really didn't apply. My bad BB.View Image
"I've got a SIL who returned plantings to HD after a year."Dang man, she's got it bad. I recall stories of guys returning their little 1 foot trim leftovers for refunds. Seen stuff happen and just don't know what to say.That's like buying a tool to use once on a project then taking it back for a refund. What's with that anyhow?
I've heard of women that will go buy some clothes to wear to a party knowing they are taking it back the next day to get their bucks back.It's really kinda freaky when you think about it.Only tool I remember taking back was a Crapsman grinder that I bought the extended warrantee for since it was for a big job and I'd just fried a cheapee wannabe.
Got the thing home and the little button on the head you push to lock the disc shaft for removal didn't work. So I had to drive right back for a replacement.Girl clerk punches it in the puter and says something to the effect of ok, I see you bought the warrantee so we can replace it.
H*ll man, extended warrantee or not, if I'd bought the thing and it was broke and they wouldn't ok it I'd throw one of those DanH fits and a bit of my own creation thrown in for good measure!
Beware. RFID is coming.
You have some good points.I think if Sears has a class action suit they should hire you for the defense!
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
LOL... my old man thinks I shoulda been a lawyer.
I'm just saying that everyone is puttiing all the responsiblity on Sears.... "yeah but they said"
But what's your part and my part in all of it? Where's our responsibility? Just because we can abuse something and replace it for nothing, doesn't necessarily mean we should. I know it's all kosher and according to the fine print, you guys are absolutely "right" to demand full compliance from Sears. But are you?
That's all. And it's just my opinion, after all. Worth about what you paid for it. I was trying to go away quietly.... but you asked. :)View Image
That's all. And it's just my opinion, after all. Worth about what you paid for it. I was trying to go away quietly.... but you asked. :)
Don't worry, my wife will tell you that I'm the guy who, right after an uncomfortable social moment happens and everybody just wants to let it slide by, I'm the guy who just has to make that comment so everyone can relive the discomfort.
Just doin' my job.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Well, it ain't like I require a whole lot of bait either.....View Image
I'm with you for the most part. If I feel like I've gotten good and fair use out of a tool, I'll go buy another one. If I think a tool has broken in typical use, I'll exchange it.
I used to work with a guy who bought handsaws and chisels at Sears so he could return them when they got dull. He didn't seem to understand why I took pride in keeping and using my tools as long as they were remotely usable, and that most saws and chisels aren't really sharp enough from the store anyway. And Craftsman tapes are, and always were, crap. What's the point of having to have 3 of them in your box just so you can still work and finish the day, and detour to Sears on your way home?To the OP: I've never had a problem returning tools to Sears, or to Monkey Ward's years ago. I think the answer, if they're not as cooperative as you think they should be, is to find another representative, not throw a hissy fit. Have some pride, guys.
#1 So you purchase a Craftsman tool.... now you're entitled to a perfectly functional and aestheticly flawless version of that tool for the rest of your life, right? If anything less "doesn't meet your satisfaction" then I guess you're entitled to a new one.
#2 So what if you lose it?
Personally I'd be quite 'unsatisfied'
#1. Um, yes. That is precisely the main reason I buy Craftsman hand tools. I know there are better quality tools out there (at higher prices, too). The other reason I buy them is that you can pretty much bet that wherever you live in the US, there will be a Sears store accessable to you.
Use a screwdriver to chip out concrete? Only if it's a Craftsman. Dirty handle? sure, return it, no questions asked. That's why I buy Sears hand tools. Abuse, misuse, neglect, normal wear and tear-doesn't matter. It's their warranty, and IMHO if they didn't have it (or didn't honor it on a large scale) then they wouldn't sell many more hand tools. I've never had an issue with any Craftsman hand tool exchange. problem is, that the newer ones you exchange for sometimes aren't as good quality as the original.
Hey, they made the rules. The UCC says they have to abide by the warranty.
#2 Lost it? Sure, return the lost tool for a full replacement. Duh. Maybe take in a picture of your lost tool. They might exchange that for a picture of a brand new replacement.
BTW, Uncle Henry pocket knives warrents theirs against loss for the first year. You lose it, send in the appropriate form (notarized, of course, they're not going to make it THAT easy) and they send you a new knife.
But Sears? Gotta have something to exchange.
Sorry for the sarcasm. I just couldn't help myself tonight.Pete Duffy, Handyman
The sarcasm doesn't bother me Pete. It's the cavalier attitude. Return a tool because it has a dirty handle?
What exactly is that a 'handyman' does? Don't think I own any tools with clean handles Pete.
Sorry for the sarcasm... couldn't help myself tonight.
You seem awful defensive for a guy with about 25 supporters and maybe 2 or 3 guys that disagree with you. Maybe you didn't actually read my posts... maybe you just skimmed em. I dunno.
I'll try to type slower this time...... I agree that you are 100% within your rights to return the tool. It says so "right there". I just don't think that you should abuse the policy... just because you can. It's just wasteful and perpetuates the problem.
That's my opinion. You can be as big an ahole as you want to be.... but you still won't change my opinion. I'm guessing from your brilliant reply that you disagree with my opinion. Now would be the time to.....
GET OVER IT.
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HEY!Who the ^$#% stepped on my fresh baked everything bagel with veggie cream cheese and alfalfa sprouts is what I wanna know!
Beware. RFID is coming.
Friggin' spilled my Seattle's Best hot coffee too.
be I'll murdelize 'em
Beware. RFID is coming.
Personaly I worry about "LIFETIME" warrenties on pos items.
If the sales person pulls out a 38 and puts a cap in my melon seems my lifetime warrenty just became null and void.
Never really felt comfortable that they thought the tool would last or I would drop dead.
Another timely bagel presentation....View Image
It ain't too bad tho' since the tomatoes aren't quite in season yet and those gas ripened pink things they try to pass off as legitimate I refuse to add to the mix.Now mess with my big slab of red on a bologna and mayo with a thin slice of onion sometime in August when the mouth's watering and it'll be duke city!
be glad it's summer
Edited 6/30/2006 9:18 pm ET by rez
Diesel,
I think there are a lot of us out there that agree with you (at least I hope). I think a lot of the people who seem to disagree with you haven't ever actually returned something without a good reason, and have a drawer full of Craftsman tools which are dirty, chipped, etc. that they wouldn't really take in for exchange. But it can certainly feel good to think about shafting the big evil corporation.
I remember years ago hearing about people digging through the Sears dumpsters to find the returned tools, then re-returning them to get new tools for free. At the time, I'm sure I thought to myself "wow, wouldn't that be cool!"
With age comes wisdom, I guess.
Don
there a landfill in town that takes sear,walmart, and HD returns. Its a secured landfill. the owner promise nothing will ever be taken out of the landfill. And he means it. even employees are searchs. but that why the company pay the landfill the big bucks.
Brian-
Ok, you got me. I did just skim the posts, and reread them after I posted. I apologized before for the sarcasm only because I usually don't post that way. Didn't think I was being defensive. I'm not trying to change your (or anyone's) opinion either, just responding to one of your posts with an opinion of my own. And we all know that opinions are like aholes - everybody's got one. No need to call me an ahole. But, I'll do as your post says, and get over it. Yep, already done.
FWIW, I'm not the type to abuse return policies. I don't dig up plants after a year and return them. I don't buy a suit for a wedding and return that afterwards.
And as a general rule, I don't abuse or neglect tools (I still have and use the same Sears socket set I got when I was a teenager.) I don't return tools because the handle is dirty. But I buy Craftsman hand tools because I CAN return them for any reason. That's part of the price/quality/service equation that defines value, and what drives most purchase decisions. If Sears didn't have the unconditional warranty, I'd buy tools from somewhere else.
The issue here isn't the price or the quality or the service. It's the unexpected change that Sear's is reportedly trying pass through after the fact.
And as far as what is it that a handyman does? Well, I do lots of things, and I do them well, and with pride. Thanks for asking.Pete Duffy, Handyman
Pete,
I wasn't ripping the handyman profession. What I was saying is "what exactly does a handyman do?".... implying that he uses tools.... so they're gonna get dirty. Now I'm also smart enough to realize that you were only making a point about returning dirty tools and wouldn't actually do it... but I figured if you could throw it out there as an extreme example then I had a right to make fun of how preposterous it was.
Somewhere way back when in this thread I said that I don't think it's right to purposely abuse or neglect tools just because you know you can get a free one whenever you want.
And that's the only point I was ever trying to make in this thread. The OP stated that he was trying to return a tool that he admitted was beat on and corroded from neglect. I just don't think that that particular situation warrants a brand new tool.
Look, if I worked for you and I kept trashing your tools because I knew you'd just go buy another, assuming you didn't fire me, what would you do next? You'd probably start feeding me a steady diet of crappy tools, right? Guess what Sears has decided will work best for them?
Everyone keeps justifying it by saying they pay a small premium for Craftsman tools and that most people never end up returning the tools anyway. Seems to me just about everyone here takes them up on that policy, so who are the ones not returning them? And why is there a landfill dedicated soley to returned merchandise?
I just think it's irresponsible and wasteful to trash stuff just because you know it can be replaced for free. Policy or no policy. Yes you have the right to return the tool... but it doesn't mean that you are right to return the tool. I'm not saying that Sears is right for not taking back the tools.... I just don't think that, given the condition of the tools discussed in this thread, it's really anything to get all up in arms about.
IMO, If you leave your tools in the rain, well, you deserve to have to work with rusty tools. And if you chisel concrete with a screwdriver you deserve to be the guy with the huge screwdriver budget. But if you're too silly to realize that you bought a pair of Levi button-fly 501 jeans instead of a pair with a zipper like that other guy in this thread..... well.... I'd take pity on you there and let you swap 'em out. :)
But no matter what..... no hissy fits. There's no hissy fits allowed in construction.View Image
Yep, we're on the same page.
If you worked for me and kept using a screwdriver to chip mortar, I'd buy you a cold chisel (Craftsman, of course) and have you go replace a bunch of cabinet hinge screws with it. Just for fun. <g>
As far as hissy fits- it's bad enough to see that from kids on Nanny 911 or Supernanny. To see it from an adult, well...
"There's no crying in baseball!" - Tom Hanks
"There's no hissy fits in construction!" - Dieselpig
Nuf said. Have a good holiday weekend.Pete Duffy, Handyman
Everyone keeps justifying it by saying they pay a small premium for Craftsman tools and that most people never end up returning the tools anyway. Seems to me just about everyone here takes them up on that policy"
DieselP,
Morally, Sears is the one doing something wrong by offering a warranty they won't honor in order to sell more tools.
We live in a country which has laws. The UCC is explicit that if you use the language that they do,...to market their tools, you legally MUST take them back.
Why do they, to this day, include that language? 'Cause other companies do also. What they are doing is illegal, period. AND they are doing it on a massive scale. They know most people will just walk away, with the staff saying you neglected the tool.
But you know what, it is my right to have it replaced. I should not have to go through any trouble to get them to honor their warranty, based on the legality of the language of the warranty.
Jon B.
I guess what everyones saying is. It's alright to return your shorts if they happen to get skid marks on them.
Rock the Tipi!
Milkbones to you.
Got an outloud guffaw on that one. ROAR!
Beware. RFID is coming.
LOL.....you just said in one sentence what took me a novel to say.View Image
You write the novel. I'll take care of the cliff notes. :)
Rock the Tipi!
Why does Sears have to have morals and principles.... but you don't?View Image
dieselpig,You've put up some great posts in this thread. I agree completely!Years ago, when I was a Domino's Pizza manager, the franchisee would cite Sears as how to do customer service. He explained how he bent a screwdriver using it as a pry bar and took it back to Sears. They cheerfully replaced it. He told them that he abused it and used it as a pry bar, but they didn't care and cheerfully replaced it.But it is a hard concept to teach people.I explained over and over again to employees that the customer was guaranteed a hot delicious pizza within 30 minutes of the order. If the customer failed to enjoy a hot delicious pizza within the thirty minutes, then the pizza was free.We might deliver a hot, delicious pizza in fifteen minutes, only to see the customer drop the pizza after paying. That customer should get another pizza and their money back. No fault guarantee.Of course, some people took advantage of this. They'd give a wrong address or something to make the pizza late.Some of my employees would have trouble "cheerfully" honoring the policy if they felt the customer was abusing the policy. One employee in particular finally learned all the right things to say, but she still pissed off the customers because they could hear her disappoval in her tone.We gave away about 2% of the pizzas. I'd guess that a bit less then 1% was intentional abuse. I was happy to let them have the free pies. But my opinion of them isn't very high.I still think it was cheaper to just let the abusers rip me off than it would've been to do the stuff that would have prevented some of it.
Rich BeckmanAnother day, another tool.
Note that you're dealing with an individual "sales associate" when you try to collect on the warranty, and some will be more hard-nosed than others. Plus I suspect that they're taught to be hard-nosed to begin with and to only honor "borderline" cases when really pressed.
If you think you're getting a raw deal just keep asking to see the next manager in line until you get the right response.
DanH is right, some of the sales people think that they have to pay for it, go to the next level.
Shacko,
I agree with you sort off, as other prior posters. This is about principle to me, Not so much about getting shiny new tools.. I never had a problem in the past exchanging tools, but now they are reneging on there warranty, and it's not just this one store based on the data I pulled up.
It now appears to be corporate policy. That's fine, but they (Sears) still sells their hand tools with a "Full UNLIMITED Lifetime Warranty" that they will not honor, ie. they are intentionally reneging on a contract actively, using a warranty as a selling tool that they will not honor.
It is not worth it to me to go up the chain of command to replace a few rusty wrenches. What I am looking for is people with similar stories.
My Dad is a retired attorney, and says they are 100% completely in the wrong. I am looking for others experiences.
WSJ
You are much easier than I would be on these clones, I like to have a lot of people around when I go into my tirade, you would be suprised how fast they change their mind. To me its the principal that counts. Lots of luck
Yeah, I have found that a well-planned hissy fit, thrown in the middle of the store in front of other customers, often gets action that nothing else will.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
You have a training video of you hissy fit you could share with us?
Not really, but I can tell you it involves shouting loudly words to the effect that "You're telling me that you're refusing to honor your unconditional warranty??" Preferably after a few other loud words have been exchanged to attract attention. Be sure to arrange for this to happen in a relatively busy part of the store, where there are plenty of customers to observe. Best if it happens after a manager (who has some authority to offer "adjustments") is present.Keep it clean, and avoid insults, to keep the crowd on your side. Just display "righteous indignation".
PS: One thing to NOT do is to actually get upset. When you're upset it's harder to think straight and plan your words. View it purely as a "performance".
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
Edited 6/30/2006 3:40 pm by DanH
I bet it's quite a "performance".
If having a low wage work force was good for a country's economy then why hasn't Mexico built a fence?
Yeah, I have found that a well-planned hissy fit, thrown in the middle of the store in front of other customers, often gets action that nothing else will.
Like getting you thrown out, cops called, punched in the nose, laughed at,
........................what kind of reactions do you really get when you throw these 'hissy fits'?
If having a low wage work force was good for a country's economy then why hasn't Mexico built a fence?
Like I said, the trick is to keep it clean and civil, but loud and attention-getting.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
You never worked in retail, I'll bet. Blowing a gasket is a good way to not get what you want. Don't think that the other customers who witness the "well planned hissy fit" are impressed, either.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
They should take it back.
I remember a Sears commercial from about ten years ago quite clearly. A guy needs to link two towing straps together, but doesn't have the proper linking equipment. Instead he grabs a Craftsman cresent wrench and loops the two tow straps around it. The wrench holds, and the commercial ends with some line about the unlimited warrantee. This commercial was clearly sending the message that it's OK to abuse Craftsman tools.
Sears can't tell you in commercials it's OK to abuse their tools and that they have an unlimited warantee, and then later change their policy.
I've heard that ever since Sears was bought by KMart ( ? ! ) their old warranty is just not the same. You might try going back later, when a different clerk is on duty. I don't think there's a lot of consistency with how they interpret their "policy".
Greg
Ya know , Walmart used to take bACK EVERYTHING for any reason. I think they would take back dirty diapers .
Not anymore.
Tim
How did these tools corrode? Who abused them?
If having a low wage work force was good for a country's economy then why hasn't Mexico built a fence?
How did these tools corrode? Who abused them?"
CAT,
It doesn't matter. It is a fact that they were sold with an "UNLIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY" Was it a mistake on Sears part to offer that? Sure got them a lot of sales, and still does.
BUT, they are breaking the law by not honoring it.
WSJ
And what are you trying to do about it?
If having a low wage work force was good for a country's economy then why hasn't Mexico built a fence?
I just looked at the Sears website. If you call up the tool catalog, and go to pages 184-185, it says, "Craftsman hand tools are guaranteed forever. If any Craftsman hand tool ever fails to give complete satisfaction, return it to Sears for free repair or replacement." So, I'd think they'd have to give you a pretty good explanation for refusing to replace your tools.
Stuart,
Not that I'm lazy, just supervising/helping a crew right now, Do you have a link to that page?
WSJ
Link to the warrantee information in the online Sears catalog:
http://s7.sears.com
Stuart,
Thanx for the info and work on your part. I looked for a while, but could not find it. Any chance you could send me a hyperlink?
Thanks again,
Jon B.
Go back to post #50 in this discussion, I pasted the link there.
Take them to a different Sears, or the same one on a day when the 1st jerk isn't there. Full unlimited warranty means exactly that - no exclusions. If they still say no, start talking about the Better Business Buro (sp/) and any consumer protection shows in the media. In Chicago, both of the daily papers have columnists who chase crap like this. Companies pay rather than get the embarrassing publicity.
The words "Class Action Lawsuit" might also be fun to toss about during the confrontation, act on behalf of everybody Sears has forked with this policy.
Good luck.
The words "Class Action Lawsuit" might also be fun to toss about during the confrontation"
Norm,
That's exactly what I was thinking.
WSJ
I agree with you whole-heartedly. On each receipt, they print "Satisfaction guaranteed or your money back", I recently bought a pair of jeans from them and discovered that they didn't have a zipper. I took them back to Sear's and, instead of an exchange or my money back, I got every excuse on earth why they wouldn't live up to their promise.
Either Lidia needs a treatment on the cranium with a 2 X 4 from her boss or Sears needs to change their slogan.
Is the tool a Craftsman? They now also sell a "Companion" brand or a "Sears" brand. These tools don't seem to carry the warrantee.
Sure they lose some money when people take advantage of them. High school seniors would buy a Sears tuxedo, wear it once and return it and get their money back. Since it's used, they couldn't resell them so Sears dionated them to the poor. The poor brought these same tuxes back to Sears and just showed the label and got "their" money back. Now the returned tuxedos go to the shredder which is why you no longer see bums wearing tuxedos.
But the marketing value of a well known "Satisfaction guaranteed" policy is much greater than occasional rip-offs. The implication is that Sears has such faith in the quality of their products that they they don't have to worry about a rare dud,lemon, mistake or rip-off.
Part of the price you pay for a Craftsman tool is for its greater quality than a Harbor Freight tool. And part is maybe a bit of insurance. The point being that it is better to have a Craftman tool on a dark and rainy weekend than a Harbor Freight tool. In either case, if it fails you can take it back and get your money back, but that doesn't help you on that dark and rainy night stuck at the side of the road. But now, maybe Harbor Freight is more honest. They may sell junk but they guarantee it. Sears sells better stuff but they don't guarantee it but they lie and claim they do.
And there's always SnapOn.
~Peter
Why do Elvis Aron Presley and Edgar Allen Poe have the same initials?
I worked at Sears as a teenager. Part of my job was packaging the returned tools. The thing I remember the most was that most of the tools looked fine couldnt find a problem and they were still taken back.
On the abuse side of the spectrum, Someone had an open ended wrench that was apparantly to large for area he was working because it was cut in half with a torch.
Then there was the early 90's when instead of exchanging rachets they were just giving people rebuild kits that didnt really work that well. That always brought entertainment when the old man would break a rachet, he hated those kits.
I had some trouble returning a worn out (from regular use) Craftsman ratchet about 10 years ago. Let me spare you the details (and me the typing) and just say that I'm a very infrequent Sears customer these days.
same here...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!