Not qualified to answer the question but two things come to mind, alternatives for insulation and a product I just saw in a trade mag (Qualified Remodeler). It is Lite Steel Beams, WWW.litesteelbeam.com/remodeler.
For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
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If its just for light storage, I'd go with the 2x12
If it was living space, I'd go with the I-joists
Are you planning to put somthing on the bottom for a finished cieling? If so, then blow the bays with cellulose
Living in the city where the I joist was invented does not in any way make me bias, with out a doubt, I joist hands down, lighter straighter etc. The price difference is well worth it
I don't get why you need the lvl beam? That is the major cost why not bolt or cut in a ledger to the wall?
Maybe some photos if you can.
Wallyo
Edited 1/17/2009 11:41 pm by wallyo
Half of what you save on materials will be spent paying that other carpenter for extra time.
Consider cost comparison if you use LVL beams and solid lumber for joists.
my choice would be the I-joists.
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Wy use beams on the sides? I don't really get that.
A couple of thoughts come to mind. First would be to frame walls on the sides and set the floor on that. Won't you need to insulate the saide walls somehow anyway?
If the LVLs are expensive but you want to use the I-joists, just use 2X12s for the beams and stick with the I-joists. There's no reason you can't mix the two things.
Have you gotten more than one price on the I-joists? Pricing does vary a bit from one place to another, and someone could have made a mistake. (Check their quantity of I-joists while you're at it)
Is is possible that whomever quoted you the I-joists included band board with it? Doesn't sound like you'll need it in this case.
>Why use beams on the sides?<
I don't think he has footers nor foundation in place for load bearing walls. Thought he said somehting about 7 columns with foundations...
I do not know how much it costs but there is a also a new lightweight steel beam, just saw the info the other day it looks weird looks like 2 2x4's with a plate on one side connecting the edges 1/3 the weight of a I beam, cuts with a cut off saw or metal band saw. According to what I read has been used in Europe.
http://www.qualifiedremodeler.com/print/Qualified-Remodeler/LiteSteel-Beam-from-LiteSteel-Technologies/1$991
So you are going to use the existing poles to hang this beam? it will span between them?
Wallyo
If you clear span 19' with 2x12s the floor will feel like a trampoline.
My guess would be 14" I-joists for a reasonably stiff feeling floor, but there are number of different types of I-joists out there. Maybe stiff isn't part of the criteria? You might want to price floor trusses too. Sometimes they come out cheaper than I-joists.
Same old thing... The right solution isn't the cheap solution.
"If you clear span 19' with 2x12s the floor will feel like a trampoline."
Good point - I forgot to mention that. It would maybe be OK for storage. But I don't even like to span 11 7/8 I-joists over 18'
For the OP - The thread on Floor Vibration will explain what Matt and I are getting at.
Like Matt said, 14" deep I-joists or floor trusses would provide an excellent floor.
If you come to a fork in the road, take it. [Bill Cosby]
Boss just depends what series 11 7/8 is used, with TJI,s a 210 to 560 series will span that, a 560 will do 23'8" at 16 oc. 40#live 20# dead just depend how important the 3 inch difference from 11 to 14 is for head room etc. Also decreasing to 12 oc an 11" 110 can be used cost wise you need to play out all senerios narrower and more vs wider flange and less. Going 12 oc you do not add too many extra joists per 8'. Comes down to what the yard sells the most of to give the best price on.Wallyo
Did you read the thread on vibration? The width of the flange and the spacing of the joists have very little to do with vibration. The depth vs. span ration is what makes most of the difference.
Psychotherapy is the theory that the patient will probably get well anyhow and is certainly a damn fool. [H.L. Mencken]
I have never been in a house where I have even noticed floor vibration, I have and do notice floor bounce where you are standing static and some one walks up to you and though it is small you feel yourself rise and fall. vibration I think would be something like a bridge when traffic passes the deck below your feet vibrates. The OP I don't think has ever said what the space is to be used for so vibration I would think may or may not matter. What I was getting at is when it comes to I joist you need to look at the various options on sizes, price it out several ways to find what is best $$$$ wise. Taller may be the same prices as shorter and wider. But there are many way to span 19'.Wallyo
I can sweeten that for you!
Sawmill wood!
The price I can buy 2x12's 20' from a sawmill is $8.00 each. (.20 a bd.ft.) I can also order 8x12's at the same time.. I would spec them made from ash because ash is strong and durable (and cheap as heck right now because of the green ash borer)
Please come here and look at my place made with sawmill wood. Or go over to 85891.1 & 94941.1 in the advanced serch section off to the left..
I can sweeten that for you!
Sawmill wood!
Why didn't I think of that?
Joe H
Don't forget the extra man with bulging muscles to lift those monsters into place!;)
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Frenchy a lot of us do not live next door to the sawmill, his profile is not filled out he could be 500 miles to one H D may be closer, the transport would wipe out savings. but if in ten mile not a bad thought.
That certainly is a valid reason for filling out a profile.
However you'd be amazed at how many sawmills there are.. Even in the southwest!
Many sawmills people would never realize are sawmills.. they are either well hidden or part time mills where the equipment is put away when not in use..
Now granted Minnesota does have a lot of trees so you'd expect a fair number of sawmills but I had a list of over 3500 mills in Minnesota and I was constantly adding to that list when I was selling equipment to them..
By selective purchasing a person could buy a used skid steer and woodmizer or some other such modest mill and be in the wood sawing business for under $5000. That is not much of a barrier.
Izzy,
Have you thought about changing the direction of the framing? If you were to put a gluelam or LVL in the middle of the 30' span, you would be looking at 2 15' spans and 2X12s would span that with no problem. It would add a little expense, but the floor should be plenty stiff.
I agree with the others who like the TGI's. I used those everywhere in my house and love the solid feel, but your cost is a little more then with solid lumber. They go in extremely quickly and you don't have all of the issues that you see with solid lumber.
As far as insulating that, how about hanging a lid (with vapor barrier) and blowing in cellulose before you put down the floor. It's quick, effective and you don't itch for days after installing it.
Steve
I've been thru this before many times.. there is a provision in every code that allows the use of sawmill wood. It usually doesn't saw the word sawmill wood but the allowance is clearly there.
Yes doug fir is a great alternative to ash and likely a whole lot more common where you are.
I'd go I-joists. The labor and tylenol savings will just about offset the cost savings of the solid lumber. If you line em up right, you'll save on running utilities too, b/c of the knockouts.
A couple of folks asked why the I-Joist package was spec'd with LVL beams at the edges, but the solid joists were spec'd with solid lumber. I realize the I joists will cost more regardless, but what was the answer to the different carrying beams?
k
Where about in the Gorge are you? I love that drive, one of my favorite roads. From Boise to the Columbia river pretty boring but from the River to Portland Wow!
Do you have building inspections? Not to skirt the code, but if so and you are getting a permit, talk it over with them also. To me what it sound like, is you are building a mezzanine like structure in a wherehouse. What is the ceiling height will there be any problem there to habitable space?
Wallyo
Is it something we said, all the OP's posts have been deleted, that is strange.Wallyo
Some people are a little funny like that....
I remember a thread a few months back where the guy had built a large garage that was a gable roof with no ceiling joists, rafter ties and maybe (?) no collar ties and no structural ridge. I guess it was being held up by a wing and a prayer. The guy thought the local inspector was an a-hole for rejecting the building inspection. I think the guy was upset because he couldn't find anyone here to agree with him.... So, he went through and deleted all his posts. Took all his toys and went home - as it were...
Not that this is at all the same situation, but as I said... people can be funny...
Matt what is also funny is he had no profile, then had a profile, now he has no profile.Witness protection? Or did "if you are getting an inspection" scare him off?Wallyo
Edited 1/20/2009 1:41 pm by wallyo
Some people are really weird about their privacy. They think some internet predator is gonna hunt them down and do them wrong based on their first name and state they live in...
Hey - I gave my first name and the city I live in. That should narrow it down to about 5,000 people. :-)