Hello all,
I’ve been in this buisness 27 years, and occasionally have to build portions of home with cathedral ceilings, stick framed, sometimes with logs flattened on top, or some other member that will be exposed. Sometimes folks want these type ceilings without and tie beams or collar ties to form the base of the triangle, and for the past few vaction homes I’ve used glue-lams (which I hewed for appearance) to make a self-supporting ridge and elimanate, or greatly lessen wall spread. I’ve just started another project with a homeowner wanting this type ceiling, and I can’t use trusses due to the design. The part of the house that gets this treatment is only 22’x32′, with the rafters going across the 22′ width of course. What do you folks do when you have a project like this? Can’t use trusses, can’t add the base of the triangle…I can’t seem to get away from the big ol’ glue lams. I hate having to work out ways to avoid a crane to set ’em, but it’s tough. In this case, the rafters will sit on walls about 15′ and go up from there on avout a 9/12 pitch. I’ve used sips on the last few roofs, but this one will be decked with plywood, with wiring, air channel and insulation between the rafters and 1″x6″ t&g for the ceiling. What do you folks do when you have these specs? Thanks for your time. 10man
Replies
How about iron rods from plate to plate? Like with big turnbucles at each end?
What do you use to hew the gluelams?
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Hello Ed,
The homeowner wants the space completely open; no rods, cables...nothing. The glue lams hew nicely with a hatchet and adz. After hewing, a coat of transparent or semi-transparent stain blends then in with the rest of the woodwork, and the hewing gives them a massive, rustic look and really hides the layered look of glue lams. From the floor they look like a solid timber when complete. Super strong too. We order ours with a camber built in, and after setting they almost flatten out under their own weight. Works great, just too heavy and I'm a bit tired of fooling with them. Actually, I'm just tired all over. Know the feeling?
10man
Actually, I'm just tired all over. Know the feeling? You mean like this one? 3x18x26 ft Took five of us and a duct lift.Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Ed,
Yep, just like that. Most of our beams wind up 30' or so up and 3-1/2" or 5-1/2" x 18" or 24". Ouch!
10man
10 man, why are you fighting the need to order a crane?
Just order the crane...bring it in twice.
Factor the cost in and bill for it. Remember to mark it up.
blueIf you want to read a fancy personal signature... go read someone else's post.
Irfanview
Thanks for the downsized pic.Smile. It could be worse. You could be me working for you.
Blue,
I wouldn't think twiced about it if I weren't so far away from one. The last time I got a big one it had to travel about 97 miles one way. Factor in the travel time and it gets expensive. We can usually get most beams up with hoists and scaffolding but it takes time. Still cheaper than the crane. That's what I get for living in the sticks.
10man
> it had to travel about 97 miles one way.
It sounds like there's an opportunity there for anyone who wants to go into the crane business.
Given that you can't have any kind of tension member to complete the bottom of the triangle, you have only two options, and you can divide the load between both of them. You can make the ridge beam strong to resist the vertical forces, and you can make the top plates big and strong to resist the horizontal spreading forces. For pitches under 12 in 12, a strong ridge beam is more cost effective. Over 12 in 12, it's more cost effective to put the strength on top of the walls.
-- J.S.
Two years ago I built an addition on my own house with a cathedral cieling just like you're describing. I dropped in a 3.5x14"X35' ridge. I prepped it out so all you had to do was set the thing in place. A friend of mine with a crane came by and the two of us did it, he operated the crane, I climbed up and fastened it in place. It took about 10 minutes and cost me about $60. I realize of course he gave me a huge break on the cost, but still I would always use a crane or some sort of lift. Let somebody else do the impossible, I too am too old and tired to bother anymore.
.
If you want to do it the old-time way, get or assemble a pole or mast, or even a good heavy extension ladder with a boat trailer winch at the base running through a block at the top down through a hole drill near the top of the balance point of the beam.
The mast will need two guy lines running from the top back to two very good belay points away from the direction the pole is leaning.
If it is windy wait for a calm day.
Be careful Keith
rootburl,
There's always a way. I remember onced we were setting a large beam and the only place we could put our lifting straps was on the ends of the beam, due to certain job conditions. I knew that when we set the beam down, we'd have a time getting those straps out safely. I'd given the problem some thought the night before (don't we all work the next day out the night before?) and was ready for it. Just when the beam was a few inches up from it's final position, I got a lot of ice cubes from a cooler and placed them under the beam on each side. We the eased the beam down, slipped out our straps and let the sun do the rest. Worked sweet!
10man
Jer,
I hear you; good to have a pal with a crane. Maybe I should look for a new friend?
10man
My only experience with this was on a house which reqiured a 45' 3 ply 18" paralam beam. We built the gable end walls and sheeted them, leaving vertical pockets for the beam. We then man handled the paralams into place, lifted and blocked them up a foot off the floor and then nailed them together. When they were all togerther I got two 20' 2x4 and used my wall jacks to lift them into place. It worked very well but I wouldn,t want to go quite as high as you are having to lift.
I'm curious -
When you order these glulam beams, do you tell the supplier that you plan to "hew" them?
Cutting into the things could degrade their performance.
One nice thing about egotists - they don't talk about other people.
Boss Hog,
No, I don't tell them that I plan to hew them. The beams we've used are over-engineered, and I really doubt that the little chips we remove would have any effect on strength. Unrelated, but I don't think I mentioned that the beams we get are cambered, and almost flatten when the structure is complete. You right, though...you have to be careful when you modify anything that is engineered for a specific purpose. Thanks Boss Hog.
10man