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Discussion Forum

Discussion Forum

Septic and leach fields

User avatar
caveman | Posted in General Discussion on October 3, 2007 06:32am

I’m curious as to what the average life span would be for my leach field here in CT. 17 yr old system with a 1250 gal tank and I bought the place new. I know there are many variables that could affect it, but given that I’ve had the tank pumped 4 times during it’s existence… never abused it, no cig butts, no trash grinder in the sink and never added any of those snake oil products. Also the perc rate is excellent. Don’t remember the specs,(I’ll find them if it helps) but the property drains exceptionally well.

Just had it pumped last Sat…everything looked good and the pumper guy said 20 yrs is typical. Am I going to need to start thinking about replacement soon?

Thanx

                      I’ve upped my standards…now up yours

Reply

Replies

  1. junkhound | Oct 03, 2007 06:54pm | #1

    Mine is going on 40 years old, never even have pumped it*, similar situation to you.

    I'd say in excess of 100 year if no garbage disposal and lines are pvc or abs vs tile.  Dug up part of a line about 20 years ago putting in a powerline to barn, the line was clean.

    *have opened tank and shoveled the toilet paper off the top twice, only 4" of sldge in the bottom after all these years. 2nd compartment zero sludge.

     

    1. User avater
      caveman | Oct 03, 2007 07:00pm | #2

      40? and never pumped?? WOW...guess I don't need to worry then. Pipes are pvc/abs? so I should be good there.

      thanks                       I've upped my standards...now up yours

    2. Piffin | Oct 03, 2007 08:02pm | #4

      'course you only drive it to church on sundays and to the market on wednesdays. Low mileage so it could last till the big one, right?;) 

       

      Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

      1. User avater
        aimless | Oct 08, 2007 11:02pm | #50

        And after a very high fiber breakfast he heads down the road "for coffee".

  2. Piffin | Oct 03, 2007 08:00pm | #3

    With care like that, you might go forever.

     

     

    Welcome to the
    Taunton University of
    Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
     where ...
    Excellence is its own reward!

    1. User avater
      caveman | Oct 04, 2007 07:07pm | #11

      That's music to my ears!! It would be nice if I never have to worry about it. Maybe what got me concerned is I noticed a number of new systems being installed for older places around here and when the dude told me 20 yrs is typical, I thought... uh oh

      thanks for piping in, I highly value your comments                       I've upped my standards...now up yours

      1. User avater
        caveman | Oct 04, 2007 07:22pm | #12

        Thanks everyone who replied. Maybe the pumper dude was just trying to sell me a new system? I'd hate to think of what that would cost...10-15K? Supposedly there are all new code requirements in place and now they want filters installed on the outlet before the leach field. He also told me some folks are having to clean the filters every 3 months. Don't even want to think about that hassle.

         

                               I've upped my standards...now up yours

        1. user-201496 | Oct 04, 2007 08:49pm | #13

          The best systems have 2 tanks. The solids stay in the first tank and just the liquids go to the second tank and into the drain field. With a 2 tank system only the first tank would ever need to be pumped.

          1. User avater
            caveman | Oct 04, 2007 10:07pm | #14

            Would you have a link that goes into detail about the 2 tank sys? I'd hate to think of what that costs...$$$$$$$$$$$...but in case the need ever arises, I'd like to know more about it.

            thanx                      I've upped my standards...now up yours

          2. Piffin | Oct 04, 2007 10:46pm | #16

            Most here now are a single tank with a barrier wall in the middle. Highly likely you already have the same 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          3. User avater
            caveman | Oct 05, 2007 08:37pm | #24

            yep                      I've upped my standards...now up yours

          4. User avater
            caveman | Oct 05, 2007 10:34pm | #27

            so is there any diff between having 2 tanks versus 1 tank/2 compartments                      I've upped my standards...now up yours

          5. JimB | Oct 06, 2007 01:11am | #29

            Two septic tanks set in series and a single two compartment tank will both do a better job of keeping suspended solids out of the drainfield.  The only difference is that often, but not always, you have a larger total tank volume with two tanks when compared to a single two-compartment tank.  All other things being equal, you will get more settling with greater tank volume.

          6. Piffin | Oct 06, 2007 03:03am | #32

            True dat, and occasionally a TP pillow will float up over the wall/baffle in a singfle separation tank if it is used inappropriately and not pumped often enough 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

        2. pinko | Oct 05, 2007 01:56am | #20

          >>Maybe the pumper dude was just trying to sell me a new systemYup.>>Supposedly there are all new code requirements in place and now they want filters installed on the outlet before the leach field. He also told me some folks are having to clean the filters every 3 months.Yup.FYI (and anyone else listening), if your drainfield fails, go rent a mini excavator for $250, dig a new trench (36" wide by about 40' long) and buy some plastic dome thingies called 'Infiltrators' (a brand name for many gravel-less leach field systems). Lay them in the trench, hook it up to your tank and backfill it. Any fool can do this. 48/50 states approve of this system (but probably won't tell you if you don't ask). The whole ordeal will cost you less than a grand and a weekend of your time. The new system will last forever. Oh, and your DEH (or whoever has your permit) will probably require the ridiculous tank filter. Buy it for the inspection, then remove it and throw it away. And for cryin' out loud, if you have your washing machine hooked up to your septic system, STOP it now and send your washer water to a drywell or water your lawn with it.

          1. User avater
            caveman | Oct 05, 2007 08:46pm | #25

            'Infiltrators'

            I'll have to google that and see what I can learn. No problems so far, just like to learn a little more about what to expect if a failure happens. Thanks

            The washer does drain into the septic and never had a problem. Only 2 adults occupy this place...and 4 bedrooms/3 baths

                                  I've upped my standards...now up yours

            Edited 10/5/2007 1:49 pm ET by caveman

          2. JimB | Oct 06, 2007 01:08am | #28

            >FYI (and anyone else listening), if your drainfield fails, go rent a mini excavator for $250, dig a new trench (36" wide by about 40' long) and buy some plastic dome thingies called 'Infiltrators' (a brand name for many gravel-less leach field systems). Lay them in the trench, hook it up to your tank and backfill it. Any fool can do this. 48/50 states approve of this system (but probably won't tell you if you don't ask). The whole ordeal will cost you less than a grand and a weekend of your time. The new system will last forever.

            While I'm sure that the infiltrator system is approved in most states, as a substitute for gravel trenches, most states also require permits for septic system repairs, just as they do for new systems.  And just like gravel trench systems, the life of chamber systems (like Infiltrator) and other gravel substitute systems depends on a range of variables like site conditions, proper installation and maintenance. 

            >And for cryin' out loud, if you have your washing machine hooked up to your septic system, STOP it now and send your washer water to a drywell or water your lawn with it.

            Reducing the amount of water going into the system will typically make the system last longer, but this suggestion is illegal in almost every state. 

          3. pinko | Oct 06, 2007 02:12am | #30

            >>most states also require permits for septic system repairs, just as they do for new systems.I realize that, Jim. I wasn't suggesting that he not get a permit (though I personally wouldn't), rather, when he permitted, he could use an infiltrator system, as it's legal in almost all states.As for the longevity of the system, (and other comparative specifics) this has been hashed out in many scientific studies over the years. The consensus is that the system is superior, in every way, to a traditional gravel trench leach field. The benefits include the fact that it's CHEAP and EASY to do. If it failed in the same amount of time a gravel trench failed, hey, no worries---rent the backhoe again and spend another thousand, and a weekend, and build a new system. >>Reducing the amount of water going into the system will typically make the system last longer, but this suggestion is illegal in almost every state. Really? Care to share which states have 'outlawed' this? ..Just wonderin'. My state's pretty darn strict (FL) and they allow it.Anyway, it's a great idea to do it. 'Illegal' or not.

          4. Piffin | Oct 06, 2007 03:07am | #33

            "Anyway, it's a great idea to do it. 'Illegal' or not."Sure - if you like paying fines and redoing it again, the right way 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          5. pinko | Oct 06, 2007 04:59pm | #34

            I think you need to educate yourself on Infiltrator systems.. You don't seem to grasp the point of using them (lack of gravel, namely). Look up their site; google for info, and read the scientific (and legal) data.Any homeowner can go to his local department of environmental health/services and request all the info on what is allowed and how to do it. I know of only a very few states which disallow ANY work done by the homeowner if he is 'unlicensed'. Most waive any licensing or 'expertise' requirement for a homeowner to do whatever he wants to his property. I suggest people take advantage of that right.As for the greywater separation, for the vast majority of states, its perfectly legal---and encouraged. Because it is a BETTER way of waste management. And if it is illegal in some states and not others, on what logical basis do you determine if it is the "right way" or not?You seem like you live in perpetual fear of displeasing your self-appointed masters...the State Regulators.. DO what you believe to be right and best for you and yours and mind your own business.

          6. DonNH | Oct 06, 2007 05:16pm | #35

            Personally, if my system were to plug up tomorrow, I'd borrow my father's backhoe and/or bulldozer and have at it - would certainly give the Infiltrator method a look. 

            My BIL fairly recently ran a greywater line, which is letting the 50 year old drywell continue to function, so it no longer percolates smelly water downhill from it.

            However, that's a far cry from suggesting a professional such as Piffin  participate in potentially illegal activities.  I haven't actually looked up the laws & regs, but I know here in NH things have tightened up quite a bit, and I'm pretty sure that to the state, a greywater system is no different than any other septic system and must be designed and permitted the same.

            A lot of this is probably being driven by issues such as population density, where your neighbor may be the one dealing with the consequences of a poorly functioning septic system.

            In addition, a lot of attention is paid to systems around water bodies.  A lot of waterfront properties are carved up into small lots, often with primitive outhouses near the water.  Once a bit of E. Coli gets in the water, everyone starts to get excited.

            Don

          7. Piffin | Oct 06, 2007 08:28pm | #37

            I know what is right, have used infiltrators extensively and been to design seminars for their use.You on the other hand have no concept of using them on anything other than Florida sand apparently. Do some studying on what soil design work is needed when people have clay or ledge in the are or hydric soils. Gravel is necessary and required 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          8. pinko | Oct 06, 2007 09:24pm | #39

            >>You on the other hand have no concept of using them on anything other than Florida sand apparently. Actually, no. I've used the infiltrator system in two different states on opposite sides of the soil spectrum. Also, I can read.. Any soil type I was unfamiliar with has data published which allows one to engineer a proper system.Any soil which can accommodate a leach field system can be built with an infiltrator system. It is true that some soils will not allow a traditional trench-drainage system (and surface mound systems or pump-perc systems may be used instead), but anywhere a gravel-trench drain field will work, an infiltrator system will work.In short, you are incorrect...Gravel is never "necessary or required" for a traditional trench drainage leach field. Perhaps you might do a bit of studying yourself:http://www.vdh.virginia.gov/EnvironmentalHealth/Onsite/AOSE/documents/meetingminutes/VA%20Committee%20Presentation.pdf

            Edited 10/6/2007 2:25 pm ET by pinko

          9. Piffin | Oct 06, 2007 11:11pm | #40

            "but anywhere a gravel-trench drain field will work, an infiltrator system will work."There is the glitchYou need to know what the soil is before you go spouting off that you can do this anywhere, cause your work would bite the dust in Maine 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          10. pinko | Oct 07, 2007 01:00am | #41

            The glitch was your own, Piff.I never "spouted off" that this system would work "anywhere". Use some common sense, man. We were talking about replacing an existing system...presumably a standard trench-type system (albeit a failed one) which was engineered for the current soil type initially. Note to everyone concerned: If you have no information about your soil type or whether, or what sort of septic system would work for your site, FIND OUT before you build a new one...But if a gravel-filled trench leach field will work for your site, AN INFILTRATOR SYSTEM WILL WORK...Only better.. And cheaper..And almost everywhere, it is legal.For more info, a quick primer can be read at the link I gave Piffin on the last post...Happy pooping!

          11. Piffin | Oct 07, 2007 01:21am | #42

            Right, you never said it would work anywhere You just said "Any fool can do this. "I'll leave your half baked advice to the fools. 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          12. pinko | Oct 07, 2007 02:11am | #43

            Any fool CAN do it. It's not rocket science. You are not a priest of the sacred order of building science. There are some things that even lowly laymen can do significantly as well as pros. This is one of them.You may wish to believe that the engineers and soil scientists and biochemists who design alternative septic systems are "half baked", but my advice is their advice. I provided a link to this effect for your edification. You may wish to go read it now.

          13. Jigs_n_Fixtures | Oct 07, 2007 07:09am | #44

            There is a difference between the pro who understands the theory, and does an actual design, as opposed to the amateur who just builds something.  The pro stands one hell of a better chance of the system actually working correctly every time, without being more system than is needed, than the amateur who is parroting a system that worked, with out an understanding of why it worked.  Particularly if the system that worked, has failed on the site the amateur is installing a replacement system at.  

            To say that because a gravel trench drain worked before, you can just replace a failed one, with another gravel trench drain is; well, really stupid.  First you have to figure out why the old system failed, before you can even start to design a new one.  Sure it could have simply worn out.  It could also have failed due to a change in the ground water level.  If it has failed because it clogged up, you have to determine if the old system was undersized, just not maintained, or some idiot poured twenty gallons of liquid plumber down the drains because it would make them "work better", or better yet dumped about 100 gallons of old photo developer down the toilet three months ago.  (You mean to tell me that silver kills microbes?)

            The professional designer has a level of responsibility, and liability that the amateur, or a contractor executing someone else's design does not. 

            And no; not any fool can do it.  At least not in a timely, and cost efficient way every time.  Just some fools think they can. 

             

          14. junkhound | Oct 07, 2007 02:16pm | #45

            simply worn out

            Just to shake the can <G>

            Please, if you are going to promote professionalism, please use precise and accurate terminology related to the subject at hand.

            As far as I know, no passive septic system has ever "worn out" in a strict mechanical interpretation. .  Pumped systems sure, the pump or motor can 'wear out'.

            Agree, 'wear out' can mean anything that quits working as planned per colloquial (non-professional) terminology as copied below from Mirriam dictionary.

             

            http://www.weibull.com/hotwire/issue22/hottopics22.htm

             

            Mirriam definition:

            Main Entry: wear outFunction: verbtransitive verb1 : TIRE, EXHAUST2 : to make useless especially by long or hard usage3 : ERASE, EFFACE4 : to endure through : OUTLAST <wear out a storm>5 : to consume (as time) tediously <wear out idle days>intransitive verb : to become useless from long or excessive wear or use

          15. Jigs_n_Fixtures | Oct 08, 2007 09:28pm | #48

            Well, the fifth case of the definition given seems entirely appropriate for a system Dad designed, and installed 53 years ago, that "failed" this summer.  

             

          16. junkhound | Oct 08, 2007 10:12pm | #49

            I guess I need to defer to your call.

            It is just I never equated 'wearout' with filling up with crahp.

          17. Piffin | Oct 07, 2007 02:20pm | #46

            Infiltrators are a great system nd dsolution. I have no problem with them.It is the broad based assumption that any foolcan do it and that it is such a univesal solution as you think that I argue against.EPDM is a greaat roof material too and easy to install, but it does not belong on every roof and in every situation, nor should just any body instll it.Ceramic tile makes a great floor covering surface and is fairly easy to do, but should it be used everywhere? Should any fool attempt it?tell me how many plumbing systems have been instaled by DIYs that have waste lines pitched the wrong way or imprpoer venting that leaves the HOs breathing methane? I make a LOT of money correcting suggest errors made in ignorance by HOs who do the kind of thing you sugest. I am trying to save a few more the problem in advance by amending what you have to say here. maybe one in two hundred have the ability and the geographic/political location where they can benefit from what you have to advise.
            For the majority, it just ain't so. Sometimes training and knowledge is a good thing. 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          18. Snort | Oct 07, 2007 04:47pm | #47

            A lot of Infiltrator systems are installed in this poor perking part of NC. I have one. You are right on one point. No gravel is necessary in the trenches, at least here.All work here must be done by a certified installer, and laid out by inspections, or a soils engineer. While the systems are designed to take up 25% less space than conventional, they also typically cost about 30% more to install.Removing the filter is ludicrous. It's simple to inspect and clean, and it keeps solids out of the lines.Since the system is an "alternative," it's registered as such with each county's health dept., and has to be inspected every 5 years by either a county inspector, or a septic installer who is certified.Putting one in without permits would put you in a world of sheit in any resale situation. Someone's got it in for me, they're planting stories in the press

            Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out but when they will I can only guess.

            They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy,

            She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me.

            I can't help it if I'm lucky.

          19. Piffin | Oct 06, 2007 03:01am | #31

            I didn't see pinkos post or I would have respoded already. It would be a good way to get fined and fored to replace here to do as he says. we muust be one of those two sttes not included in his 48.A lot of the system designs here are based on infiltrators in mounds, but ANY waste water system or work must be designed by a licensed pro and inspected as it is installed. Generally gravel must still be placed to the right depth and level under the infiltrators.And it is totally illeegal to separate the greywater from the system in this state. You can run it separate if you want, but you have to design and install a whole entire nuther system for the greywater, licensed permitted, and inspeted. Why double your cost? 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

  3. JimB | Oct 03, 2007 09:21pm | #5

    The 20 year life-span is a commonly quoted figure that has been around for decades.  No one seems to know where it came from.  It appears that a fair number of septic systems fail in the first couple of years due to poor site conditions, poor design, or poor installation.  Those that make it beyond that early period seem to be fine until 20+ years down the road (even with minimal or no maintenance).  It sounds like you're taking the most important steps to make it last and, as Piffen says, it might last 100 years.

     

    1. Piffin | Oct 03, 2007 09:32pm | #6

      or at least untill geico fires him and the roof of the cave falls in during the next ice age...;) 

       

      Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

  4. JonE | Oct 03, 2007 10:26pm | #7

    IF you are religiously maintaining the system as you say, no junk in the system, pump out every 3-5 years, keep bleach and powdered detergent use to a minimum, keep heavy vehicles and equipment off the leach field, and make sure nothing's leaking in your house (plumbing leak can generate a LOT of excess water down the drain).  You should be good to go indefinitely.  There are systems in my area that have been good for 50-60 years already, nothing but a tank and a drywell, in good soils.

     

     

    1. brownbagg | Oct 04, 2007 12:50am | #8

      it depends on the soil. we are real sandy here. Mama house was built in 72 and never been pump. But the nextdoor neighbor get pump every other year, he had three girls.BOB is always right, ALL HAIL BOB

      1. sledgehammer | Oct 04, 2007 04:35am | #9

        Much depends on design. Our local health dept designs for 15 year life. I had a system put in once that was 1/2 the design requested and paid for and it lasted 10 years. Seems in his later years a once reputable contractor took it upon himself to rip customers off... he's dead now but back to the topic. When I had it replaced I had twice the drain field installed then was required (supervised the install this time), also have the old field out of service (blocked) but still connected.

         

        One thing I have learned about drain fields... Never ever complain to the health dept if you get screwed. They will condem your home in a heart beat. Been there did that.

      2. peteshlagor | Oct 04, 2007 10:15pm | #15

        Waz they ugly gurls?

         

        1. brownbagg | Oct 05, 2007 12:08am | #17

          no, they was beauty queens, so everything got flush.BOB is always right, ALL HAIL BOB

          1. Piffin | Oct 05, 2007 12:16am | #18

            System designers need a line iten calculation for the "Princess factor" when they size a system 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          2. brownbagg | Oct 05, 2007 01:46am | #19

            I was thinking more like the slut factor, he pumped out over three dozen condoms one time..BOB is always right, ALL HAIL BOB

          3. User avater
            Matt | Oct 05, 2007 01:57am | #21

            3 dozen???  Who's doing the countin'?   :-)

             

          4. curley | Oct 06, 2007 07:43pm | #36

            When discussing leach fields, folks never discuss the size of their leach field. It seems like  the size of the leach field is key. If the field has the capacity to abosorb the affluent from the septic, and the bacteria have time to eat the organic stuff, then it should keep on working? right?

          5. Piffin | Oct 06, 2007 08:39pm | #38

            yes.A system is dessigned according to standards set by the state that consider probably useage. That includes size of tank and size of fioeld.My BIL is building one right now where he has one of the rarest grael beds on the island. So he can get by with about 50LF of infiltrator systen for a three Bedroom house.Mine is near hydric soils and a waterway, so my field took a lot of gravel base to build the mound and about 120' of infiltrator placement for same size house.It all depends on the soils you are building over.A well designed system after some time developes a "mat" which is a layer of slime that harbours the bacteria that clean the water. The effluent perk thru that mat If it is not integral by reason of poor design and placement, then the water that passes through is 'dirty' and has to perc a LONG way through soil to be clean again. In a perfect system, you could drink the water on the off side of th emat.Obviously, there is no perfection in design and placement, so the standard is to separate a system from a well or waterway by at least 100' for safety. Every system there is lies somewhere between lousy or failing, and perfect. I try to lean towards the perfect. Pinko doesn't seem to mind throwing something down and chancing it being a failure. That's fine for him, I guess, as long as he doesn't live uphill from me. 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

  5. User avater
    Mongo | Oct 04, 2007 07:47am | #10

    They go until they don't go anymore. They could go longer if you stop going. But that would create other problems.

    Don't worry about a lifespan. Just keep getting it pumped every 5 years and you'll be fine.

    Mongo

  6. User avater
    Matt | Oct 05, 2007 02:37am | #22

    Sounds like you are doing the right things...  I believe that limiting the use of chlorine bleach in the laundry helps too - but someone else can expand on that.  I stay away from "Tide with Bleach" - nothing gets the red clay mud off my white sox anyway...

    One thing though, - which brownbag alluded to.... depends on how many people are in your family and how big the system is.  Here, septic systems are "designed" (sized) based on the number of bedrooms in your house.  So, a 3 bedroom house with 6 people is a lot different load than a 3 bedroom house with 2 people (like at our house).

    Funny little story.  When I built this house for my wife and I we had the septic installed near the end - you do that to help limit the amount that you owe on the construction loan.  Anyway... I had the open drain field and tank installation inspected by the county health dept/"ossifer".  Every thing is cool - right - 3 weeks later the inspector calls me back and says something like "Hey, I just went to a seminar and learned blah, blah, blah.  You need to do this that and the other."  Not sure if I laughed out loud at the guy or what...   I'm like "hey bud - you signed if off!!!"  As it turned out what the guy wanted was a pretty minor fix so I went ahead and did it and everybody was happy.  

    Another related story was that the County health department required me to install this new (at that time - 8 yr ago) septic system called EZ-Lay(sp?) (OK gentlemen - control yourselves... :-) )  I did my due diligence on the internet, etc and found very little info.  Anyway, went ahead and had it installed.  After the house was all said and done, the county health dept sends me a form to fill out and sign... It basically said that I requested this new E-Z Lay system and that it was all my responsibility.  I promptly round filed that paper... :-) 

    BTW - E-Z Lay is that stuff where you buy the black corrugated pipes in 10' sections and it comes surrounded with the Styrofoam peanuts and a plastic netting sleeve.  Septic guys love it because they don't have to mess with xx tons of gravel... Seems to work fine for us.

  7. User avater
    Matt | Oct 05, 2007 02:39am | #23

    PS - if your tank has 2 lids I think that basically means it has a baffle in the middle and essentially functions as 2 tanks.

    1. User avater
      caveman | Oct 05, 2007 08:50pm | #26

      yep...2 lids 2 compartments                      I've upped my standards...now up yours

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