I am looking at putting in a rather high-end patio. The one reservation I have is this:
I have a 30 year old septice tank and leech fields. The soil here is the best — all sand and water percs away nicely. The street has a stub for public sewer. If the field and tank fails, the town is likely to make me hook to public sewer. However, in order to run to the stub, I’d have to put a trench right where my patio would go.
I’d prefer to stay on septic as long as possible — the public rates here are ridiculous, and I’d prefer to return water to the local water table.
What are people’s feelings on this? Would you put in the patio and take a risk? Or, is a 30 year old septic a given to fail (one note: from 1973 – 1998 it was occupied by an elderly couple, so not a lot went in there, since 2001, it’s occupied by a growing family). Or is it best to proceed, becuase it wouldn’t be the end of the world to have to pull up the blue stone, trench for the pipe, and re-lay the bluestone later?
One other question: anyone have a comment on $6350 for a blue stone patio for 18′ in diameter? That’s about $25 per square foot, installed with labor, materials, and disposal, in the greater Boston area.
Thanks for the help.
Replies
As far as the septic system goes, if the system is deep enough (e.g., a couple of feet between the bottom of the patio and the top of the gravel in the trenches, the patio isn't likely to affect how well the system works. One drawback to the patio, if you want to keep the system functioning as long as possible, is that if you cover up the septic tank you need to make some accomodation for pumping the tank (which should be done periodically, to remove the accumulated solids and grease before they get into the drainfield).
As far as the stub out for future public sewer goes, can you run the pipe now, from inside the foundation to beyond the patio?
I don't think he's building the patio ON the septic field (I could be misreading though).
Would it be feasible to run a length of pipe under the patio now in the event that you need to hook to sewer later?
You'd have to make sure that it's the right height & pitch so you can connect to it later...
Yes, the idea is that if the septic fails, I would have to dig up the patio to run the pipe. The patio is not on top of the septic itself.
Good idea on running the pipe. The pitch would be the challenge, as I'll have to know the where it starts below grade of the house (I know this) and where it is in grade to the street (I suppose ths town knows this?). But the distance under the patio only represents 1/3 of the total distance, so do I dig the ENTIRE trench, house to street, or just float a portion under the patio, and hope it's right.
Maybe digging a 100' trench now is not worth the money that the patio repair in the future might cost (not a given).
Can septics really last, say, 50 years +?
Sorry I misread your first message..
But yes, septic systems can last 50+ years. I've run across a few that were quite a bit older than that. Has to start with good installation, but a little bit of maintenance does wonders. For more info on taking care of your septic system, go to:
http://www.nesc.wvu.edu/nsfc/nsfc_septicnews.htmr more info,
Yo, JimB, your link be dead,Lee
Tarnation! Lets try this again. For info on septic system maintenance, try this site:
http://www.nesc.wvu.edu/nsfc/nsfc_septicnews.htm
stay on septic, it will last the rest of your life if you have been carefull of what has gone into it over the years.
Mine is 35 YO, and have never even pumped it (although have hand shoveled the cellulose residue off the top a couple of times.
"the greater Boston area."
have you talked to the town about the rules?
don't forget title V (?)
when my town puts sewer in the street you have 1 one year to connect, then they charge you anyway.
I'm in eastern Ma.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
Edited 6/27/2006 4:12 pm ET by bobl
Put the pipe in now.It will never be less expensive. Your septic tank wont fail unless its metal or the outlet baffle fails and lets gunk flow into your drainfield and plug it up.Dont ask me how I know this. Pumping your tank every 4 years or so will keep your drainfield fine. But I would put the pipe in anyway.
was thinking of this thread.In Massachusetts you cannot pull a plumbing permit unless you have a liscense. A sewer connection likely requires a liscense to pull the permit.
If you are thinking of DIYing the pipe yourself I think you are out of luck. Need to talk to the plumping Inspecter.Also if you only put in 1/3 of the pipe do you think in 10 or 15 years someone will want to connect to you pipe, therby taking responsiubility for it? or the the Inspecter is going to buy the 10-15 year old pipe that has been sitting there, and was never(?) inspected?BTW my town had a list of companies they allowed to connect to the sewer system, you had to use one from the list, your milage may vary.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
If you go the route of putting in the 1/3 pipe run now, I would do two things (after dicussing the issue with the plumbing inspector or a plumber who knows what is going on, etc.).
1. Take plenty of pictures, and include a tape measure in the picture to show exactly where the pipe is in relation to your house. Ideally, the photos should show the pitch of the pipe too.
2. See if you can put the actual drain pipe inside of another pipe to protect it.
I think I'll just do the patio now, and make sure to take extra special care of the septic tank and fields. For instance, there's a willow tree about 100' away from the leech lines, but I bet even that's too close. I'll monitor the roots closely.
If the system fails, then moving the bluestone blocks, trenching and replacing the patio will be a small component of that complete project.
Thanks for all the advice, and the link to the septic info site.
Edited 6/28/2006 5:19 pm ET by bk1000
Run a piece of culvert under the patio, instead of the actual drainpipe.If the time comes that you have to connect to the city sewer, the actual drainpipe can be run through the culvert pipe. That takes care of leaving the patio alone later, and letting the plumber do their job and getting inspected, etc.
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