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I will be installing new oak baseboards, window trim, and door trim in a few rooms. The finish will be stain and varnish. Is it best to cut and install all of the trim and then stain and varnish it in place? Or would it help to stain the trim before cutting or installing it (realizing that it would need another coat of stain, or at least touching up, after installation).
If the trim were to be painted, I assume that priming it (including back-priming) before cutting and installing it is best, but is there a similar approach for a stain-and-varnish finish?
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We always prefinish all trim before installation. I find it to be much faster to have the finish person do "touchup" work when they're filling nailholes, and if you've ever gotten stain onto a painted wall, you'll know what a nightmare it is to get off.
*Mark,I try to finish before installation, but if you need to do any finishing afterward, put a strip of waxed paper behind the trim before you nail. This keeps finish off the painted wall. You cut it off with an exacto knife or razor afterwards. If you use a wide enough piece, you can use an HVLP gun to finish in place. (HVLP has less overspray than a regular gun.)
*I finish everything on a set of horses except for final coat of varnish, then cut.. attach..fill nail holes etc...final coat...make sure the final finish isn't rough or bumpy by steel wooling and call it done.
*Sorry Mark, I don't know much about stained/clearcoated trim as we don't hardly ever see it in the area of the country where I live. Let me, if I may, ask another question or 2 though:How many b professionals out there backprime painted interior trim? I guess the same question would apply to stained/clearcoated trim?And finally, Mark says "stain and varnish"... Is that what would normally be used - "varnish"? Or do some/many of you use some kind of polyurethane, etc?
*I agree w/ Jason & Jim that it is easier to pre-finish before installing, in most cases. As for pre-hung doors I just stain the edges, then break the doors down once they are installed to finish staining & finishing them. When the job is painted, just put the stuff up and paint, I think it is a lot faster than handling all of the trim. The reason most people pre-finish stained trim is because of the problem cutting in, and handling all of the trim is the trade-off.As for the wax paper trick Splintie, I think you will discover that when the trim shrinks you are left with a bit of wax paper showing and knife marks, not good. I think most people would be surprised at how well you can cut in stain if you use a quality brush, and have average skill.Matt, I have never seen interior trim back-primed unless it came pre-finished that way, but I have not seen a lot of things people around here seem to think must be done. As for types of "varnish", I have used all sorts of finishes, probably most of them. Polyurethane would be the next to last one I would use, tinted poly or varish would be the last. For brushing I use a varnish sanding sealer but if I pre-finish I stain all the trim and let it dry, then spray lacquer, sand, install, and finish. Stair parts I finish coat before installation.
*i when the trim shrinks you are left with a bit of wax paper showing and knife marksQtrmeg, do you have to paint all your walls before installing trim to be sure there won't be an unpainted line exposed when your trim shrinks? The widest trim i've done this trick on was 4 1/2" w. x 3/4" thick that i made from D select pine to case Victorian windows, some over heat vents, with spendy wallpaper behind it...
*I've never seen or installed backprimed interior trim.In his book "Understanding Wood Finishing" ISBN 0-7621-0191-1, Bob Flexner explains the pros and cons of many different finishes, including shellac, lacquer, varnish (which he says includes polyurethanes) water base and conversion.This is really a good book if you have questions about penetrating oils, stains, gel stains, dyes, bleaching, sanding sealers, toning, whatever. He used to hang around over in the "Finishing" section at Knots answering questions (he still might, I'm not sure). Someone here recently said that he has his own website now. Like Jim Walters, I prestain and finish everything I can on saw horses. Going over everything with a coat of sealer after filling holes is a first class method, but more commonly nail hole filling and touching up any raw wood is the last step. Although lacquers build into a nice clear finish, I think they are too soft for most interior trim in a house (same with sanding sealers, which, as I understand it, are only meant to be used as a first coat and need additional layers over them). Polyurethanes dry in layers, so they don't give the clarity of lacquers or shellacs, but they are much tougher and more resistant to wear and water damage.
*Mark, & Matt, When I'm responsible for sealing the finish, I aiways backprime bath trim, wide trim,&sometimes all trim, (for instance in a basement.) So, S.O.P. (for stain) stain, !st coat urethane,( i.e. both sides) install trim, fill nail holes, 2nd coat urethane. (For paint ) prime (both sides) 1st coat paint, install, fill nailholes, 2nd coat paint . If the walls are painted 1st coat before trim is installed ,there is literally no cutting in of paint or stain. When the owner is responsible, I suggest this procedure, then the owner gets what they pay for. Jim, have heard good things about the book (a friend has it ). Looks like a new addition to the library soon. Thanks. And thank you F.H.B. for this forum.
*Matt, I live in your area, I believe, and am asked to install a fair amount of clear finished trim (stain's a pain). Usually, it's not a whole house's worth, but a lot of accents. Finish goes: sanding sealer and two coats of oil-based poly, all after we install it.We also install for some cabinet companies in one of two ways: We cut unfinished stuff, fasten up with screws, take it down, send it back to the shop where it is put together and finished ( real nice for outside corners), sent back to the field and permanently (or so we would hope) installed. High end stuff. Or, we get finished stuff, cut it to fit, colour the cut ends with markers and install. Touchup man markers &/or fills attachment holes and lacquers things nicely.Jim, we install a few pre-primed trims. Usually its poplar base or casing, once mdf. All four sides were done in a factory, somewhere. Pre-primed shoe is the norm.I have never seen varnish used as a house finish.If paint is like veneer, backpriming sounds like a good ideer...though I never seen it done on the job, interiorly.It's amazing what passes for paint ready.
*We backprime any painted trim we install.
*Jim, I think you mean Jeff Jewitt. He certainly did contribute to Knots. He hasn't been in there for a year or more and he does now have his own website and forum. Never seen Bob Flexner there, (Knots) but he may have been a contributor pre May '99 when I stated hanging about. Sliante.
*Yeah, yeah you're right Sgian, I guess I WAS thinkin' of Jeff Jewitt. Bob Flexner has given me a lot of good advice though.
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I will be installing new oak baseboards, window trim, and door trim in a few rooms. The finish will be stain and varnish. Is it best to cut and install all of the trim and then stain and varnish it in place? Or would it help to stain the trim before cutting or installing it (realizing that it would need another coat of stain, or at least touching up, after installation).
If the trim were to be painted, I assume that priming it (including back-priming) before cutting and installing it is best, but is there a similar approach for a stain-and-varnish finish?