Is there a downside to metal shingles (gerard , dura-loc, etc) as compared to the other faux shakes, ie, rubber or plastic. We have a 14/12 pitch at 11,000 ft.
thanks a lot!!
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In my experience (limited, I am not a roofer), the problem with steel shingles relates to their expansion and contraction properties. Unlike other materials asphalt, rubber, etc.) steel, when it expands and contracts, can work it's fasteners loose, change shape and potentially open seams to weather. I certainly do not recommend against them, but I would keep this engineering reality in mind when choosing which particular brand to use, and how they are installed. I would also insist on using continuous, positively lapped underlayment in case of expansion/contraction induced leaks.
Good luck, Glen in Canada
All that's pretty much worked out in the fastening/interlocking system on every metal shingle I've seen.Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, I get waylaid by jackassery?
http://grantlogan.net/
the metal I'm looking at is about $225/square out the door, how much is copper going for?
I betcha it is more than that (G)
But unlike most other stuff, it is final.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
tagline comments are temporarily suspended due to Percostte
I have no experience with copper roofing.How final is it? 120 mph winds? 1.5 inch hail?And what sort of copper are you thinking of? Standing seam or some sort of thing such as what chauncey described?Just curious.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd." Voltaire
Standing seam. Hail will dent the hell out of it but never do the damage that happens to alot of other roofs.
120 MPH? should be no problem if the rest of the roof is secure.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
tagline comments are temporarily suspended due to Percostte
Ah, if only there were a few homes in my area worth as much as the copper roofing!++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd." Voltaire
I can't bite my tongue any more and I am not typring well
Joe, let me leave you alone for now, I dont feel good an this guy id grtting mr fired up i could write a book
I goytta go hospital now. I am burning up,
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Damm, I miss that stuff
Drink plenty of straight water!++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd." Voltaire
whew, fever broke at 0500, MUCH better now. Definatly some kinda flu stuff...made it through the day better than my coworker did, he was in BAD shape.
Lingering headache and a few muscle cramps is all I feel now.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Damm, I miss that stuff
Well that sucks - I'm perfectly well, but quarantined and you two are sick, but you can wander around.............Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, I get waylaid by jackassery?
http://grantlogan.net/
what can I say? AllI know is he is REALLY feeling bad. Long day for him, and I was doing pretty well. It's them kids his GF has, one of them is always having some kind of malady.
Um, I don't wanna fight traffic tom. afternoon, seeyou on Monday?
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Damm, I miss that stuff
Yeah - that's fine - I assume Dale's staying home?Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, I get waylaid by jackassery?
http://grantlogan.net/
Nah,,if he made it thru today, he'll suck it for tomorrow ( he wants pay too, but I can wait). Here is the gutter shot.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Damm, I miss that stuff
We hadda notch the fascia for the lambs legs and it was real tite getting width on that wing, we almost didn't have room, so we cut up the roof plane and packed out a subfacia to get wide enough for the flow..thats a lot of roof running all the way back to the drop.
The old lookouts were shot as can be and the whole shebang had a back flow from the git go...
No pics of the crown moulding that is up and hiding the nasty cuts on the lambs legs notches, AND we may need the DE to be a tad wider on the verticle face by about 1/4 or 3/8ths..the freaking wall has a dip at the top plate of over 3/4 and we could only steal so much and still have flow. just getting the dip out brought us to flat then we gain rt. before the corner.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Damm, I miss that stuff
Looks good - I think I would have ripped the fascia board rather than all that notching. Got any measurements for me on the gutter yet?Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, I get waylaid by jackassery?
http://grantlogan.net/
Notching was quick and we had the idea that the top board would have purchase, we left out the front most bevel board.
No, I don't have hard and fast #'s written down here,When D stops by he can give ya the diagram.
We can feather in that part out front tomorrow, and get Dripedge running Monday.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Damm, I miss that stuff
Good to hear that you are better... now just watch out for cu!++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd." Voltaire
I'm not sick - I just have a symptom.Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, I get waylaid by jackassery?
http://grantlogan.net/
I been tellin' people that for years!++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd." Voltaire
>>>>>>>how much is copper going for?Getting close to $4/lb so I'd guess about 2 1/2 times the price of your product. That would be for 16 oz copper which is about 24 ga. I think some manufacturers make 12 oz shingles which would compare to 29 ga steel. Personally, I wouldn't fool with either of the lighter guage metals.Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, I get waylaid by jackassery?
http://grantlogan.net/
The finish on the shingles is the biggest liability. At some point, the finish is gonna fail. I've done several copper shingle jobs, but not any of the pre-finished stuff.
http://grantlogan.net/
Problem has been worked out...now where have I heard that before...lol
Adhering to Murphys law has saved my butt more than once. But I'm sure the problem has been seriously examined, but it still remains a potential point of failure. I would want to evaluate all of the solutions utilized, and be sure the installer is conscious of the potential failure when they install the product. Sometimes the standard application methods aren't applicable to the situation at hand, leaving the installer with having to choose an alternative method. I would hope they would understand all of the potential failings of the product they are installing, but often they don't.
I always examine the downsides of any "new" product. Ultimately "new" is synonymous with untested, and I shudder at the thought of using my companies reputation as a guinea pig for a manufacturers weak kneed and often worthless warranty.
I often buy small lots of new products and set up my own insitu tests, just to find out for myself. I've learned a few things the pamphlet, or salesman didn't mention.
Glen from Canada
The metal shingles (copper) I've installed were made on a hundred year old machine by a hundred year old company. I don't know what you're talking about and I suspect you don't either. I don't much like the product the original poster inquired about, but you're dwelling on a problem that doesn't exist. Anything can be installed incorrectly - hiring a competent contractor should solve that problem.Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, I get waylaid by jackassery?
http://grantlogan.net/
Seeyou, I'll use smaller words, then maybe we'll both understand.
New products are untested, therefore the solutions are untested.
Installing new products inherently means little installer experience with the product, therefore greater opportunity for error.
Manufacturer recommended application methods cannot foresee all potential circumstances, therefore an unexperienced installer is now installing a new, untested product in a non standard situation whereby they must determine the best solution for a nonstandard application....call back time.
I am not against new products, but I'm also not so ignorant as to believe an engineer has made them foolproof. Time is the ultimate proof in.
I enjoy watching know it all blowhards paint themselves into the corner with their self serving bravado by cavalierly installing new products. Then I learn from their stupid mistakes. God love 'em.
Cheers, Glen from CanadaCustom build, heritage restoration, heritage millwork.
OK - I agree with everything you just typed. Metal shingles are not a new product. I have torn off and replaced 100+ year old metal shingle systems. Non of the problems you were trumpeting yesterday were apparrent.
Now, that being said, there are some relatively new products on the market and I'm certainly not familiar with all of them. If they're not made out of copper, I have little interest in them. But, from what I have seen, the expansion/contraction problem has been addressed in the fastening systems.
I'm not willing to blindly subject a client to an expensive experiment with a new product made by a new company. But, I have enough sense and experience to think the product thru and see potential problems (although, I may not see them all). About the only new product I've started using in the last 10 years is the synthetic underlayments. Your sweeping generalization that all metal shingles are bad and you are the only one with enough sense to see they get installed correctly or to properly test them is what I took offense to. Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, I get waylaid by jackassery?
http://grantlogan.net/
"Your sweeping generalization that all metal shingles are bad and you are the only one with enough sense to see they get installed correctly or to properly test them is what I took offense to. "
NEVER, would I say this, rather I pointed out the potential pitfalls of metal shingles, and the pitfalls of using new products, or inexperienced installers (ergo, one in the same). Also that manufacturers are (big shock here folks) not always entirely forth coming or diligent in their promotion of their products. I could make a list of massive blunders if you wish.
Also, the warranty offered on most engineered products are laughable, and that is no coincidence.
These are global concerns in the building industry, that you have personalized, and for some mysterious reason then interjected with false statements to reinforce some chip on your shoulder.
As a good trades person I trust you are willing and able to discuss the merits and potential pitfalls of a product you are asked about. If not...well, that says more about you than about me.
You might want to get that chip looked at, it only gets heavier every year.
Glen in Canada
Custom build, heritage restoration, heritage millwork.
>>>>>>>>>>>>In my experience (limited, I am not a roofer), the problem with steel shingles relates to their expansion and contraction properties. Unlike other materials asphalt, rubber, etc.) steel, when it expands and contracts, can work it's fasteners loose, change shape and potentially open seams to weather. How many times have you seen this and on what type/brand shingles? Several instances on several brands or once? Not saying it doesn't happen, just qualifying your answer.I have no chip on my shoulder. I think you made a sweeping generalization based on limited experience (by your own admission) and I'm calling you on it. I've seen the nails back out in asphalt shingle roofs, but that was a result of movement in the wood rather than movement in the shingles. The systems I've seen either had small enough pieces that thermal movement would not be a problem or a nailing flange similar to the one in vinyl siding to let the pieces move independently of one another. Yes, the warranties are all a waste of good paper. Yes, there are clowns out there installing products that can't outwit a small soap dish. Yes, companies pop up with the new product that's gonna revolutionize the industry once a week. And yes, we've been discussing this way to long - let's go have a beer.Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, I get waylaid by jackassery?
http://grantlogan.net/
The beer sounds good. Here I'd recommend a good ol' Labatt 50, surely a roofer special, What about in Kentucky?
As for the failures, my experience is limited to embossed tin shingles for restoration. The locking system was limited to a curl around the shingle edges. Antiquated at best. The stresses of repeated movement sheared many of the lapping/locking points. Remember, in Canada we easily go from -35 to +35 C.
I admitt(ed) that my experience is limited, that the new products are certainly engineered to address these expansion issues, but, unless they have a new thermodynamic type of metal that does not suffer repeated cycles of expansion and contraction, I would still advise any client to closely examine each companies methods to address this potential failure...and make sure the installer understands this potential failure. Often a coy question can suss out an amazing amount of information about the installers knowledge.
These products have in many circumstances proven to be awesome performers.
I did not recommend against the products. I merely provided my honest input, take it or leave it. If your expertise allows you to provide greater and more accurate information, please feel free to share. But I doubt you can disagree with the concerns I have raised, just their likelyhood of occuring...fair enough, you would know better, as, I have already stated, am not a roofer.
Glen in Canada
ps, on your website...mmmm...copper, I love it. Beautiful stuff.Custom build, heritage restoration, heritage millwork.