I just got a job building 120LF of pergola. The drawings call for an ogee profile on the ends of every beam. These beams range from 6x12s to 2x3s (western red cedar).
My issues is shaping the ogee profile in the 6x12s. I was thinking of making a template and using a 2inch straight router bit I found with a template guide. I could rout from both sides and then still have an 1.5″ in the middle that I would get rid of with a belt sander (or maybe with a pattern bit somehow). Before routing I am going to need to cut the beam and get close to my template line with maybe a sawzall or a chainsaw.
What do you think?
Any other ideas for shaping 6×12 beams?
Are there any flush trim or pattern bits out there 3″ – 6″ long? (doubt it)
Is there a better way to creep up to my template line than using a chainsaw? I am hestitant about the sawzall because it will be hard to keep the balde square and Ill probably need to buy a bunch of blades because I have 40 beams to shape.
Thanks for the feedback
Replies
I would still feel better with the than sawzall than the chain saw. If you keep the shoe registered against the beam it should stay sguare enough to rough cut,I'd think.
And as far as blades I love the Bosch progressors.Fastest blade I've ever used.
For a job that size, you deserve a new tool:
View Image
Portable band saw.
Oops. Just realized you need 6+ inches -- most of the portabands only go 4-1/2" or so, unless you wanna drop a couple grand. When I did this, I set up my small regular bandsaw at the site on a mobile base and muscled the saw/stock around to get the cuts done. No fun, but it did the trick.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Thanks for all the feedback
1) I will have a helper with me but these beams are going to weigh approximately 200 lbs each according to the salesman at the lumberyard. I don't have a bandsaw so I am going to have to make sawzall work. Its going to be a little tricky because of the ogee shape, if it was a fairly straight cut I wouldn't be worried about it.
2) I was hoping someone would say they knew where I could get a 3" pattern and flush trim bit then I could just rout with a template from the top and use the flush trim bit from the other side (after removing most of the excess).
3) Not sure where the lumber is coming from exactly - West Coast somewhere
Here is a 3 1/2 OAL upcut solid carbide bit. For plastic, but should work on wood fine. Make a template and use a guide bushing to make the cut. Flip the template to the other side and rout that side off. Machine shop supply companies do not sell bits specifically for wood.http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=20571356&PMT4NO=51654308If it were me, I would never even consider using a sawzall to clean up the cut. Use a hand operated bowsaw, or get a portable band saw. You can make a bowsaw using a tree trimming bowsaw handle and attaching a piece of bandsaw blade instead of the heavy blade. Might be a little work.http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00123.asp
Edited 10/11/2008 8:19 am ET by MarkH
there are companies that make custom router bits.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/forums/swmf.plThis is another forum where you might post the Q also.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
If you do go the router with a long bit be very aware that it's extremely scary!
I have one and when I tried to do as you're thinking of doing the tips of it shattered and while they didn't hurt me they could have.. I still keep that shattered router bit in my box to remind me of the dangers..
Make repeated lite cuts! Don't try to make a single cut all at once..
I saw Norm do it on TOH once by mounting a full size band saw on casters and moving the saw around the cut while the beam was held stationary.
When I worked large beams building my timberframe I made straight cuts using my big saw (mikita 16 1/4 ) then for curves I cut those on my band saw..
It's extremely hard! You can't do it by Yourself unless you put your band saw on a platform with casters. Even then it's a real learning curve and your floor has to be dead nuts perfectly flat with no cracks or dips etc.. (plus spotlessly clean!) You'll need to build a table that ever so slightly has the timber off the band saw. We're talking about less than an eyelash. If the weight of the timber is on the table it makes it too difficult to move the saw..
Be Aware that the band saw will want to tip over. It's top heavy and you've raised it up even higher to get it on the platform.
If you have help it becomes marginally easier if your helper can comfortably handle the full weight of the timber. IF not you'll need enough help so they can carry that timber in an awkward position for as long as it takes to make the cut.. Then they need to practice following your guidance. This isn't something that everybody can do.. The least wrong step can pinch the blade and then you're really in trouble..
You'll need the right blade a thin one with raker teeth is called for and you want an extremely wide kerf.
There are a lot of other warnings and cautions I can share with you but why don't you find who's got the nearest Hundigger machine around? All you do then is program what you want cut and where and toss the timber on the table. each one comes out a perfect duplicate ready to paint..
Mebbee you could use the pattern cutting bits as deep as you can go on both sides, rough trim the center w/ the sawzall, and finish w, grinder and beltsander.
Steve
"My issues is shaping the ogee profile in the 6x12s. I was thinking of making a template and using a 2inch straight router bit I found with a template guide. I could rout from both sides and then still have an 1.5" in the middle that I would get rid of with a belt sander (or maybe with a pattern bit somehow). Before routing I am going to need to cut the beam and get close to my template line with maybe a sawzall or a chainsaw."
Your plan will work--soft enough wood for the belt sander. 24 grit will take it off fast.
Where are you getting the material?
One way to use the sawzall is to have someone else on the other side. The person on the other side keeps an eye on the line and uses a Crescent wrench to guide the cut.
You get a wrench that isn't to deep so the sawzall blades teeth don't hit it. Keep the opening of the crescent wrench wide enough so the blade moves freely but tight enough to control the direction of the cut.
I've also heard that the angle of the sawzall blade as it cuts can make it wander on the other side. If the nose of the blade ( furthest out from you saw) is forward in the cut it cuts one way and if the heal is forward it cuts the other way on the other side.
The cresent wrench could get hot so wear gloves.
I have a 2.5" router bit. I don't know if anybody makes a longer one or not...
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
I had a "Pineapple" shaper cutter about 6" tall and 4" diameter years ago.
Picture a carbide planer head with the inserts, but all brazed cutters staggered in a spiral. We used it for shaping Bass necks that were ( when in the rough) 6" or so wide.
I doubtthe OP has a shaper with a 1 1/4" spindle, but the point I'm trying to convey is, any cutter can be custom made. My big red flag using long router bits is they can't handle side loads, esp at 22K RPM. Just a smidge of wobble and they either break or get out of orbit catastrophically.
I've handled a few ends like the OP needs, and I go back to the old Fashioned "Turning Saw" A home made bow saw with a narrow SKIP tooth blade. And light touch up with a curved sole spoke shave and sanding blocks/rasps.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj_oEx4-Mc4
The world of people goes up and
down and people go up and down with
their world; warriors have no business
following the ups and downs of their
fellow men.
Reason I have the 2-1/2" bit is I made same kind of pergola but with 4x8 timbers. That long spinning bit scared me to death - which is probably the only reason it didn't hurt me. I worked VERY carefull with that thing!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Bosch offers a "Progressor" jigsaw blade (345XF) that is 5" long with a full 4" of teeth. I use them to finish mortising 6X6 timbers, after starting the cut with a skillsaw. You can cut from both sides and, provided you have a fairly new saw, the cuts will line up in the center. The main problem, aside from the obvious bent blade, is that the bearing that holds the blade square to the shoe tends to get sloppy in saws with any signifigant wear on them. Also, you will get less vibration during the first cut if you sharpen the tip of the blade with a file.
To get the rough shape, you could use a 1/2" auger drill bit and drill tightly spaced holes just shy of your final cut line. Your plan of using the router bit from both sides to do the finish cut and th belt sander for the middle part your router can't reach is what i would do.
To make sure your holes are perpendicular, use a 3" or 4" block with a 1/2" hole as a guide.
Edited 10/11/2008 7:07 pm ET by Chucky
I would look into renting a porta-band similar to what MikeHennessy posted but larger, from Oliver, Mafell, etc. They make them plenty large to do what you want and that's the best tool to use if you can get your hands on one. I have known lumberyards to own them and rent/lend them. Or, buy the Oliver, it'll run approx. $2000.
http://www.timberwolftools.com/tools/oliver/oliver.html
I keep thinking there would be a way to clamp several beams together, side by side, and rough cut the desired shape by a series of saw kerfs of various depths. Then finish up with various smoothing tools like handheld saws, drawknives, spokeshaves, chisels, sanders and routers.
Maybe build a sled with various width stops for the edge of the circular saw(s) table to register against - maybe colored lines to tell you when to change depth of cut and by how much...
Never did get it clear in my mind what the shape is. I thought the original poster wrote "ogee", but I keep envisioning cloud lifts.
Anyways, I've found a circular saw pretty darned versitile for making deep cuts.
You ever just hold the guard back and have at it with the blade?
Nah, me niether..LOLSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj_oEx4-Mc4
The world of people goes up and
down and people go up and down with
their world; warriors have no business
following the ups and downs of their
fellow men.
Ever notice how well a carpenter's pencil works to wedge the guard open for such shaving?
Me neither.
Jim,I was thinking exactly the same thing.I've done small runs of crown that way using table saw and then shoulder and molding planes, scraper and sanding blocks.This is the same, just on a much larger scale.- KitTechnique is proof of your seriousness. - Wallace Stevens
That's really the only sensible answer. Call a local timberframer and see if they will rent it to you...or at the very worst, maybe they would come out and make all the cuts if you had them all layed out. 40 ogee cuts in the ends of timbers...maybe 2 hours. They'll be better at it than you, too. ;-)
I would job the end-cut work to my friend the timberframer, who has a 14" bandsaw on a dolly for doing just that. Quick, easy, and what he bills for the work will be an expected job cost, because that is the way it had been figured in the bid.
Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and buy out a service. Think like a big company and run the numbers. Can the capital expenditure in tooling be justified by the return?
View Image
"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
This tool is made to do just what yer asking for. Bit spendy tho.
http://www.mafell.com/produkte/prod_saegen_z3_i.htm
And this is a great tool for sanding the profile after you cut it out.
http://www.cpoworkshop.com/sanders/specialty_sanders/121.html
why not simply spring for a Hundigger?
Really weird idea - and it might be too costly - but I bet you could cut those really easily on a waterjet cutter.