Replies

1. 
   theslateman | Jan 19, 2009 08:10pm | #1

   I think you're referring to soldering coppers.

   Yes for different tasks it is advisable to have several different shapes and weights.

2. 
   DanH | Jan 19, 2009 08:15pm | #2

   Basically, the heavier copper will hold more heat, allowing you to work longer and with heaver materials. Of course it's also heavier, and harder to maneuver, so as usual there's a tradeoff.

   Likely there are subtle differences too, like the smoothness of the seam you can make. But I've never been that subtle with my soldering.

   The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith
3. 
   seeyou | Jan 19, 2009 08:39pm | #3

   I'm looking for coopering tools.

   Just a note:  "Coopering" is barrel making.

   Sheet metal guys are sometimes called "tinners".

   Soldering coppers are made in various shapessizes for various tasks as noted above. I probably  own 40-50.

   What type tasks are you contemplating taking on?

    

   http://www.quittintime.com/      View Image        

1. 
   Yersmay | Jan 19, 2009 09:09pm | #4

   Thanks for the education in vocabulary! As you can see, I have a way to go. I'd like to be able to solder my own sill pans, perhaps some simple ducting and roofing issues. These are things I'll encounter only occasionally but it would alleviate having to farm it out to a sheet metal guy all the time. I'm also simply curious to learn how this is done and as much as I may read about it, I'll never really know until I try.

2. 
   rnsykes | Jan 20, 2009 12:29am | #5

   I'd be interested in learning it as well since there is not one single roofer with in an hour of me that even knows what terne is, let alone how to repair or install it. I have a terne roof on my front porch. I called just about every roofer in the phone book to have them come give me a price to repair it after I replaced some rotted sheathing. The first 5 actually came out and looked at it and told me that I need to put rolled roofing on it or if I could afford it, rubber. After those five, I started asking over the phone. All I got was "we don't do standing seam roofs." Let me ask you this. The sheathing is 1x10. The gutters must have been over flowing for years before I bought the house, and the rotted the sheathing under the metal. I'd like to replace 1 or two of those 1x10s. Could I separate the metal from the sheathing, slip the new wood under, and somehow re-attach the metal with out separating any of the soldered seams? The roof does not leak, but I can't paint until I replace that nasty sheathing.

1. 
   Sphere | Jan 20, 2009 12:45am | #6

   Ain't gonna happen as you describe. Here is a thread on a small flat seam I recently did , with Grant's help in supplying the copper.

   here it is.  http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=114552.1

    

   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations

    

   They kill Prophets, for Profits.

    

    

   Edited 1/19/2009 4:46 pm ET by Sphere

1. 
   rnsykes | Jan 20, 2009 12:56am | #7

   I did follow your thread. I didn't expect to be able to do that, but I'm 100% against doing it in rubber. it'll look like ####. I'd consider re-framing the roof to allow more pitch so that i could used shingles before i did rubber. I'd hate to buy the soldering equipment too because this will be the only time I ever use it.

1. 
   Sphere | Jan 20, 2009 01:04am | #8

   South Jersey  huh? My cousin is Bobby Murphy in the Villas I think, been yrs since we spoke, but  can maybe hook up and help ya out. I got my mom in in Westchester Pa, home and all sorts of kin in south jersey.

   I could maybe help ya out.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations

    

   They kill Prophets, for Profits.

    

    

2. 
   rnsykes | Jan 20, 2009 01:16am | #11

   I'm not familiar with the Villas. I'm about 25 minutes south east of philly. about an hour+ from west chester.

3. 
   Sphere | Jan 20, 2009 02:01am | #12

   Oh hell..Bob's WAY down in the shore..the Villas is inland Cape May, Wildwood area.

   I never could understand yall calling Mt.Holly  "south" jersey..or Trenton..LOL  When I say South, I mean the water in te bay.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations

    

   They kill Prophets, for Profits.

    

    

2. 
   seeyou | Jan 20, 2009 01:04am | #9

   Is the sheathing rotten at the edge?

   I doubt you can accomplish what you're wanting to do, but a picture or two would help me help you.

   One idea would be to cut the old metal back over the rot and after the carpentry is done, just replace that area. http://www.quittintime.com/      View Image        

1. 
   rnsykes | Jan 20, 2009 01:14am | #10

   yes, it's rotted at the edge. The rafter tails seem to be solid. I could get away with one row of the 1x10, but if I could do two, it would save me hours of scraping. I'll try to get a picture tomorrow when it's light out, but a brief description;

   The roof is a shed roof, approximately 18' in width. It's about a 2 1/2 pitch. The rafters are 2x6 @ 16" o.c. The gutter brackets are screwed through the metal into the rafters. It's a half round gutter, so it backs up easily. It'll be coming down as soon as it gets warmer out.

   Actually, here is a picture of hte house from when I was looking at it before purchasing it. You can kind of see what I'm talking about on the upper roof on the back. It's just one straight run across.

   
1. 
   seeyou | Jan 20, 2009 02:10am | #13

   I see it. If the rest of the roof is sound, you could do as I mentioned. With a 2 1/2 in 12 slope, you could possibly get away with not soldering it if your folding is good.

   Soldering old terne is tough to do well. Cleaning the old often removes the terne coating back to bare steel which is not good. Paint stripper is the best route, but becomes tiresome.

   Here's what I'd do:

   Cut back the old metal a few inches past the bad sheathing.

   Replace the sheathing as necessary.

   Install a drip edge at the bottom - galvanized would be best - aluminum would be acceptable.

   Bend the bottom 1 1/2" of the old metal (green) at 90d.

   Make a new terne pan to lock on the drip edge (maroon) at the bottom with 3/4" turned up at the top. Clamp them together.  

    

    

    

   View Image

   Then fold the extra 3/4" on the old metal back over the new metal lip:

   View Image

   Squeeze tight and fold the whole lock down and mallet it tight.

   Prime and paint. And find some half round hangers that attach to the rafter tails. Those thru the roof hangers probably caused or contributed to your rot problem. Or install the roof hangers under the new metal.

    http://www.quittintime.com/      View Image        

   
2. 
   rnsykes | Jan 20, 2009 02:49am | #14

   That looks great. Here come the dumb questions. What kind of metal should I use? 1 continuous 18' piece? Or should I try to track down Terne panels? If so, how do I handle the vertical seams? What do I use to make the bend? Hand benders? Should I use any type of sealant in the seams?

3. 
   seeyou | Jan 20, 2009 02:59am | #17

   What kind of metal should I use? 1 continuous 18' piece?

   If I didn't have a brake handy, that's what i'd do. Get a pair of tongs (hand seamers) and bend it in place.

   Should I use any type of sealant in the seams?

   Probably don't need to, but some Geocel 2300 wouldn't hurt and is paintable.http://www.quittintime.com/      View Image        

4. 
   rnsykes | Jan 20, 2009 03:17am | #19

   I do have a 10 1/2' brake, bit it won't help much for the piece still attached to the roof. Plus, I'm not sure what kind of metal to use, so I'm not sure the brake can handle it.

5. 
   seeyou | Jan 20, 2009 03:21am | #20

   Use Terne II and do it in two pieces. Seam them together the same way.http://www.quittintime.com/      View Image        

6. 
   rnsykes | Jan 20, 2009 04:43am | #21

   I appreciate it. I would have never though to do it that way with out your suggestions. If you ever need any advise interior finish work, I'd be happy to help you out. Not that you couldn't find enough of it on here anyway.

7. 
   seeyou | Jan 20, 2009 04:51am | #22

   My pleasure.http://www.quittintime.com/      View Image        

8. 
   Sphere | Jan 20, 2009 02:54am | #15

   LOL Ya think ya used enough screen space there Butch?

   Great work on that SU.

   Hey, you and I could go do Doc and this guy at the same time, nttatwwt..Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations

    

   They kill Prophets, for Profits.

    

    

9. 
   rnsykes | Jan 20, 2009 02:58am | #16

   I don't think I could afford you guys.

10. 
    seeyou | Jan 20, 2009 03:01am | #18

    Ya think ya used enough screen space there Butch?

    Oops. I looked at the file size and saw it was acceptable and forgot to crop it before I uploaded.http://www.quittintime.com/      View Image