Replies

1. 
   Guest_ | Jul 03, 2000 03:34am | #1

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   Jim,

   I think it would be more likely that they were never drivin fully to begin with, and over the years the weight of the shingles when they were hot and soft "settled" around the staples. If a staple gun isnt held perpendicular to the roof it will leave one leg of the staple high. Thats just one reason I'm not comfortable useing staples for composition roofs. I think a coil nailer is much better.

   Chuck

1. 
   Guest_ | Jul 03, 2000 04:57am | #2

   *b TVMDCJim, I used a stapler only once. Had to redo the roof with a coil nailer. The staple legs are too skinny to give any holding power and easily start to work their way proud starting leaks. In addition, the flat part to too "sharp" to keep the shingles down and easily cuts through the material in a good wind causing lost or broken shingles.Flake board may be another problem (We use only plywood or OSB in CA). If so, you could put down a layer of 3/8 CDX over the flake board next time you reroof.

1. 
   Guest_ | Jul 03, 2000 05:26am | #3

   *Anyone here work in "Hurricane" areas? Wondering if staples are allowed in the updated codes. What fasteners does the "Hurricane" code recommend? I know there's alot of extra straping and simpson tie-ing that I don't have to worry about, but may be worth the extra expense in the long run. Jeff

1. 
   Guest_ | Jul 03, 2000 09:01am | #4

   *Jeff, After Hurricane Andrew coastal areas of Florida started to ban staples not just for shingles but sheeting also, walls and roof. Some day we will have a state code enforcing the ban entirely.

2. 
   JimGG | Jul 03, 2000 02:18pm | #5

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   I just want to make sure that I understand what a "coil nailer" is. This is an air nailer which shoots the traditional roofing nail, which has a large diameter head (about 3/8 in.)? Many thanks to all who replied.

3. 
   Guest_ | Jul 03, 2000 04:49pm | #6

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   Yes, a coil nailer is a pneumatic nailer that shoots regular old roofing nails. Called a coil nailer because instead of the nails comming in "sticks" like a stick nailer, they come coiled in a spiral attached to each other by thin wire.

1. 
   Guest_ | Jul 03, 2000 06:55pm | #7

   *Right here in the middle of hurracane ally in Louisana. There is not any current code restrictions on stapling shinges, but no one seem to do it in this area(Baton ROuge). Most roofs are still hand drive. We have a good source of cheap labor, and that how it is done. In florida it has been banned. As for roof sheathing, we staple, it seem to hold better than CC sinkers or smooth gun nails. Just dont set them to deep. I think more staples get shot in a panel than nailsJust my opinionDavid

1. 
   Guest_ | Jul 03, 2000 10:36pm | #8

   *b TVMDCWe hand drive roofing nails, too. Only time we use a pneumatic gun is for sheathing and cedar shingles. Comp shingles are always hand-nailed so the worker can feel if he's driving into sheathing or also a rafter.

1. 
   Guest_ | Jul 04, 2000 03:12am | #9

   *.. i think chuck is on the right track.. the staple was left proud..we also get hand nails working out of shingles but it is usually on an old board rood and the nail was driven into a gap so it had no holding power..we use coil roofing nails and most of they time we hurricane nail anywhere near the shore..we also use hand nails for some of the areas.. like the guy working the edge... or if there is an exposed to view roof board that also serves as ceiling below..about 90% of our shingles are now Certainteed ((Hatteras)) nailed in compliance with Miami-Dade regs..rated for 110 mph

1. 
   Guest_ | Jul 04, 2000 03:35am | #10

   *Bill, Excuse my ignorance on two counts. What is tvmdc? And why would the worker need to feel if he is hitting sheathing or rafter when shingling?I agree with the underdriven staple theory. Although I personally don't use them, I have torn off a few stapled roofs that had exceeded there rated lifespans without staple failure. I use all coil gun nails, and can see no advantage to hand nailing, if the gun operator is properly trained. I have known a few exceptionally fast hand nailers that could rival gun nailing speed, but by and large the guns make the average guy alot more efficient. A hand driven hot dip galv. roofing nail is superior to electro mechanical galv. coil nails, which might matter in salt air climates but not where I'm at. I think hot dip coil nails are available from maze, so that point is moot in the gun vs. hand debate.Am I still on topic?Tom

2. 
   Guest_ | Jul 04, 2000 05:40pm | #11

   *b TVMDCTommy, Yes you are still on the topic.As for the first question, check out this post, #6.0.As for gun nailing, you are going to hit some rafters. If the gun pressure is correct for the sheathing, it will be left proud when you hit a rafter requiring hand setting. If set for the rafter, it will overdrive the shingle in the field of the sheathing.

3. 
   Guest_ | Jul 05, 2000 03:45am | #12

   *Bill,I have to disagree about the sheathing vs rafter pressure thing.I dont shoot nails that penetrate 1" beyond the sheathing. Just the tip of the nail breaks through. 1/4" maybe. That's not enough for the rafter to make much difference in nail depth.Knots or voids in sheathing must have a bigger effect.I do carry a hammer with me and once in a while, for some reason, a nail stands proud and needs to be set by hand.

4. 
   Guest_ | Jul 06, 2000 04:47am | #13

   *b TVMDCRyan, Since I didn't give you ambiguity, I gave you something else: just a problem we found using a coil nailer on shingles which prompted us to go back to hand nailing. Now for decking, we use the coil nailer for flashing and setting diamond lath over the flashing and a stapler for the lath on plywood.BTY, I just got a Makita 9 gallon portable air tank figuring it would be a whole lot easier to carry that up a ladder than a compressor. If you replace the male fitting with a coupler, it is compressor free, at least for light nailing or you can connect a 2nd hose back to the compressor. Any experience with this in your neck of the woods?

5. 
   Guest_ | Jul 06, 2000 05:01am | #14

   *>" just got a Makita 9 gallon portable air tank figuring it would be a whole lot easier to carry that up a ladder than a compressor"Whaat? Why would you want a compressor or an air tank for that matter up on the roof instead of just running longer air hose line. If having a convenient way to regulate your air pressure is the reason you can just plug in a line regulator. If the compressor is electric you want as short a run to your power supply as possible which to me say it should stay on the ground and the gas power compressors I've been around (which I admit is not too many) shake and vibrate enough that I'd be worried about them moving themselves off the roof of their own accord if not well secured.

6. 
   Guest_ | Jul 06, 2000 11:42pm | #15

   *I've seen a similar situation on a Timberline installation some years back and the cause was that the staples were too short ....1/2" than what the manufacturer recomended ....they wouldn't hold and backed out poking holes the shingles...if I remember correctly the staples are supposed to go all the way through the sheathing.

7. 
   Guest_ | Jul 07, 2000 01:25am | #16

   *I couldn't agree more. One more thing: What good is a 9 gallon tank? I'm guessing maybe 25 decent shots worth?

8. 
   Guest_ | Jul 07, 2000 04:34am | #17

   *Great discussion -- the sort of thing I'd like in a FAQ about roofing.Maze offers smooth and deformed (spiral, ring) shank roofing nails -- any preferences out there? I thought the point of longer nails was to avoid smashing your fingers so often! How many nails per 3-tab?

9. 
   Guest_ | Jul 07, 2000 04:37am | #18

   *Great discussion -- the sort of thing I'd like in a FAQ about roofing.Maze offers smooth and deformed (spiral, ring) shank roofing nails -- any ppreferences out there? How many nails per 3-tab?

10. 
    Guest_ | Jul 07, 2000 04:39am | #19

    *smooth...whichever length will give 3/4 inch penetration into the roof deck ORin the case of plywood sheathing...will penetrate thru the sheathing at least 1/4 inchEXCEPT if you have an exposed ceiling.. then u gotta use stubbies....four nails for 3-Tab.. unless you're hurricane nailing, then it's six...

11. 
    Guest_ | Jul 16, 2000 09:33am | #20

    *I have a question. Why do shingle makers specify 1 1/4" (I think that's what it is) nails, when for the most part, the nail will only penetrate from 5/8 to at the most, 1"? I've never been able to figure that one out.Jon

12. 
    Guest_ | Jul 16, 2000 05:04pm | #21

    *jon.... figger 1/2 inch for the asphalt material... and either 3/4 for penetration into the deck or .. penetrate 1/2 inch thru the plywood sheathing and stick out 1/4if you don't have 3/4 of solid penetration then you have to develop the holding power by driving thru the sheathing and pentrating the other side....most times ONE inch will not do it.... and 1.5 is overkill.. so you wind up with 1.25...

13. 
    Guest_ | Jul 17, 2000 07:34am | #22

    *Hot dip, too.

4. 
   JimGG | Jul 17, 2000 07:34am | #23

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   I bought a new house 15 years ago which has asphalt shingles. I went up on the roof recently and noticed that staples have backed out through the exposed shingle. I put roofing cement over the staple crowns to stop leaks. The roof sheathing is flake board. (1) Why did the staple back out? Too short? Flake board does not hold well? (2) When the time comes to put on a new roof, what should the roofer be doing to avoid this problem? Roofing nails instead of staples? (3) Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks.