Replies

1. 
   xMikeSmith | Apr 12, 2002 06:38am | #1

   no, but  u r in a funny location.. try posting this in the "construction techniques"

   Mike Smith

   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

2. 
   cak70 | Apr 12, 2002 04:29pm | #2

   I am not a roofer or roofing expert but I do think something negative is going on with the racking , laddered, straight-up or whatever method of roofing you want to call it.  I did my shop roof that way and every 3 ft. where the tabs overlap going up are prematurely curling.  All the tabs from the 3ft. inbetween are flat.  I see this on many other houses in the neighborhood.  And you are right I have seen in the instructions on the shingle wrapper saying laddering is not recommended.  What little I do I will never ladder again but that is insignificant because also with what little I do I will never use a three tab shingle again.  It will be algae resistant dimensional shingles for here is western kentucky.  That algae bleed is seen on about every other roof with some age on it. 

   Tony

1. 
   xMikeSmith | Apr 12, 2002 07:29pm | #3

   there shouldn't be ANY difference wether you step from one rake or you go straight up...the nails all go in the same place.. the only difference is with step .. you can place all nails withput lifting a tab..

    with staight up you have to lift a tab to get the nail in the right place.. so

    what am i missing ? Mike Smith

   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

1. 
   cak70 | Apr 12, 2002 09:15pm | #4

   You may not be missing anything.  All I know is after 7 years the end tabs from each course that overlap as you go up on my shop have curled at the edges. So that you can see this every 3ft a tab wide.  I have seen it on other houses.  It could be ventilation, expansion and contraction of the whole roof etc. I don't know but something is going on .  The roof was installed correctly with 4 nails etc.  A picture would be worth a thousand words....  Maybe later.  I think it is more to it than coincidental.  We have more heat down here.  Could be shingle drying out prematurely.  I do know this is addressed on some of the sites I have checked dealing with shingle installation and warranty issues etc.  I am not in a very good position to argue given my experience.  But it just pisses me off to see and otherwise beautiful roof having that curling only after 7 years.  I called GAF and the crap you got to go through to issue a claim up to this point isn't worth it.  By the way enjoy your comments a great deal along with others..There are many of us diy'ers that read but don't comment , picking up much knowledge.  Thanks

1. 
   Piffin | Apr 13, 2002 04:57am | #5

   I've installed thousands of squares in several diferent locations using both ladder rack and stairstep layouts. The only time I've ever seen what you describe is when the shinglers have been damaged, either by shipping, handling, or by an agressive installer shingling in cold weather. He could be cracking tabs when lifting to undernail. That is the only rationale for manufacturers claim denials. They go out of their way to find denial reasons. It's not uncommon for a sloppy fork lift driver to put a lot of pucker wrinkles in the bundles too, but a good installer will use those ones on anm edge where they cut off or reject them altogether.

   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   HeavyDuty | Apr 13, 2002 10:00am | #6

   Any similar observations when the top down method is used? You are lifting the tabs for nailing every 5-6 rows?

2. 
   bishopbldr | Apr 13, 2002 01:43pm | #7

   Tom,

   We installed a new 25 yr. architectural roof shingle on a new home last year, using the top down shingle method. I agree with Piffen, over bending of the shingle would be my main concern as to premature curling. Otherwise I see no problem. By the way, this was the first time we ever shingled a home from the top down. My guys thought I was crazy when I suggested it. It worked great! This was a very complex roof, 12/12 pitches, black color, in 90 degree heat. No scuff marks, no kneeling on hot roofing materials. You just have to use a little more thought  in prep work and layout. In the long run I think it was worth it.

   Bish

3. 
   Piffin | Apr 13, 2002 11:22pm | #10

   I've never seen top down shingling and until the articles came out this past year, I would've laughed at the suggestion.

   Chewie, Most of the shingles in the southern half of the country are ladder patterned. It is a good way to lay keeping your feet off the hot shingles and thus damaging them. When I moved north, I found the styairstep method more efficient and better for the shingles because of steeper roofs and colder mornings. I stair step at five and five.

   Any time somebody says there's only one way, it tells everyone else that he doesn't know more than only one way because his experience is limited.

   Excellence is its own reward!

2. 
   johnsterite | Apr 13, 2002 03:13pm | #8

   laddering is an incorrect method ,asphalt should be installed with a six pattern 36,30,24,18,12,6 snapped lines make for an efficient installment

1. 
   xMikeSmith | Apr 13, 2002 04:59pm | #9

   chewie...u r so full of sh_t....

    says who .. u ? 

   good installation has nothing to do with laddering or stepping..Mike Smith

   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

1. 
   Piffin | Apr 13, 2002 11:23pm | #11

   Calm down mike, it's a weekend!Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   xMikeSmith | Apr 14, 2002 01:11am | #12

   nah.. i like chewie... just wanted to make sure i had his attention.....

   the phraseology just kinda rolls off my tongue... as in " yur full a' sh*t..". .. sorry .. thot i was in the tavern... hah, hah, hahMike Smith

   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

2. 
   Piffin | Apr 14, 2002 02:17am | #13

   Well, like I said, it IS the weekend!

   Have one on me. The shipyard is cold.Excellence is its own reward!

3. 
   RonRosa | Apr 16, 2002 05:49am | #14

   Top down? Oh my god. Stay in the kitchen girls.

   I am with Mike, good installation has little to do with step or ladder.

   I install all three tabs straight up.

   Dimensional I install with the step process as the pattern looks better.

1. 
   JasonKehl | Apr 16, 2002 02:21pm | #15

   While on the topic here, sort of,  do you guys generally snap many layout lines or just use the tabs for your spacing. I have read of snapping horizontal lines as often as every course and it seems that it would prevent going astray as you go up the roof but it is also possibly really slow. We use the step up/pyramid pattern but sometimes end up a little crooked and have to fix it, always looking for a better way. Thanks for any input.  Jas.

1. 
   Piffin | Apr 16, 2002 07:36pm | #16

   With the multitude of horizontal chaulk lines it can be dine by a pair of good men almost as fast as they can walk up the roof, after marking the crows feet every five inches.

   but

   most shingles the last fifteen years have not been consistent enough in their sizing. They can be from 11.25" to 12.75", so your visible edge is out of alignment if you set the top to a line. I'v egone to useing the gauge on the shingle hatchet, but then every man on the roof need s to be using the same gauge, there can be a 1/16" difference in manufacturers on those. Other guys use a combination of a line every six courses plus the gauge. Whatever works for you and your body mechanics.

   If you want straight up the roof crotch lines, pop two lines, parallel, six inches apart to set to. Some brands run off quicker than others after three courses instead of six or seven. On a really long roof you can do a re-alignment course repopped at say 36-3/16 over so you don't have overlapp on the bad ones.

   Reason I went to fiver over and five up is it gives a good looking random, better than misaligned straight ladder rack.

   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   r_ignacki | Apr 21, 2002 02:10am | #17

   two chaulk lines 6 in. apart up the roof.

   Doesn't anyone snap 1 line and use the factory "slice" to align shingles?  

1. 
   Piffin | Apr 21, 2002 02:46am | #18

   Not all companies put that alignment slice in their shingles and on a hot day it will roll and not be accurate while on a really cold day, it'll chew you fingers up bad to releaase it. So the chaulkline is more accurate and faster in the long run.Excellence is its own reward!

2. 
   RonRosa | Apr 21, 2002 01:51pm | #19

   Lay out lines are worth the effort. Every 10 " is fine if you like.

   When training new guys its a must , they go faster and don't mess up as much.

   Even I shingle faster with lines, takes all the thought from job away.

   I found a roofers felt with 5" and 5 1/2 " lines on the felt. Set the felt on straight and you have all your lines.

   Good Luck.