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Discussion Forum

Should I Run

gdcarpenter | Posted in Construction Techniques on November 14, 2003 04:28am

Prospective client visit today.  Garage, attached to townhome, about 20′ deep x 12′ wide, built with 2×4 truss roof 24″ o.c. running lenthwise, gable end on side of garage.  Seems someone, a buddy, cleared out all those nasty diagonal bits of the trusses to make room for ‘storage’ via a pull down access way.    To the ‘buddy’s’ credit, halfway down the length of the garage he installed a double 2×6 beam sitting on a single 2×4 on the inside of each side wall, though it is still a tad springy up there.  Now owner wants to sell and seems the ‘home inspector’ noticed the missing bits. 

If I do anything I’m thinking double 2×12’s under the peak and halfway along each rafter span, carried to load bearing walls.  Figure the ceiling will need a bit more beam ‘beefing’ up too.

Cut and run or have a VERY clear contract and bring in my own structural engineer?

Let’s not confuse the issue with facts!

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  1. SunnySlopes | Nov 14, 2003 04:40am | #1

    Bring in a P.E. and have him/her draw out the details.  You probably know what to do, just as most experienced carpenters in the field.  But why put the weight of liability on your shoulders.  This is the owners problem and expense.  Do what you said in your last sentence. Clear contract/Engineer.

    "One measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions"



    Edited 11/13/2003 8:40:32 PM ET by Woodrow

  2. User avater
    hammer1 | Nov 14, 2003 04:59am | #2

    If you don't feel good about the job don't take it. If I really needed the job I would not do it without an Architect or Engineer to carry the liability.

    1. brownbagg | Nov 14, 2003 05:10am | #3

      run as fast as you can

      Edited 11/13/2003 9:11:20 PM ET by BROWNBAGG

      1. User avater
        dieselpig | Nov 14, 2003 05:35am | #4

        I wouldn't run.  I see no reason to.  Get a structural engineer in like you said, get a drawing, let your building inspector (if you have one) have a look and go at it.  Follow the drawing to the letter.   A good contract should be a given.  Assuming you have the knowledge necessary to build a decent garage, you should have no problem getting one healthy again.   I'd take a job like that in a second.  If you've got to put a new roof on her so be it, just don't let the HO talk you into a cheaper alternative than the engineer suggests.  

        Also, don't be afraid to make suggestions to the engineer.  You probably already know how you'd like to fix it, so run that by the engineer and let him work out the details.  Good luck. 

  3. User avater
    JeffBuck | Nov 14, 2003 06:10am | #5

    I wouldn't even call an engineer ...

    just make a ridge beam ... as in load bearing ...

    then make for the right load path ... all the way down.

    beef up the floor as needed.

    Jeff

    Buck Construction   Pittsburgh,PA

         Artistry in Carpentry                

    1. User avater
      gdcarpenter | Nov 14, 2003 06:32am | #6

      Thanx to all and to all a good night.  As for Brownbagg, if you're a Gemini like me you might change your mind tomorrow.  Think I'll estimate based on my beliefs and pass cost plus cost of engineering, and any extra cost due to engineers say so.  Anything can be done and unless some fool buys without a home inspection owner will eventually have to fix it.  Just have to allow for getting 12'er's through a tiny gable window in garage attic - oh those site factors.  Gotta love this business.Let's not confuse the issue with facts!

  4. CAGIV | Nov 14, 2003 08:40am | #7

    From everything I've ever read that BossHog has said about cut trusses and repairs it might be a good idea to bring in a/the truss manufacturer or an engineer.

    1. User avater
      CapnMac | Nov 14, 2003 08:51am | #8

      Got to agree with CAG, here.  Can't speak for BH, but I'll bet that he'd agree the bottom chords of the trusses aren't anywhere near the right size to support attic loads.  So that makes two problems to fix.  First, have to hold the roof up (pair of 2-2 x 12 at the 1/3 & 2/3 span points, might be enough, might not).  Second, have to hold the attic floor/garage ceiling up, too.

      Maybe it night be simple, like sistering in 2x6s for the attic floors, a 4' tall knee wall at the ends, and some sort of horizontal tie around 7-8 above the attic "floor" would bring enough stiffness and strength.  Don't know, and wouldn't want to guess; that's what the man with "P.E." after his name is for.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

  5. User avater
    BossHog | Nov 14, 2003 04:03pm | #9

    When I saw the title to this thread, I thought maybe Piffin was thinking about running for President or something.................(-:

    I don't see any reason why you should run from this job.

    If the building isn't very old, I'd suggest contacting the truss manufacturer and working through them. If it's older, you're better off hiring an engineer to cover your tail.

    But it doesn't sound like any big deal to me.

    How does Avon find so many women willing to take orders?

    1. joeh | Nov 14, 2003 05:25pm | #10

      Boss, is this idea too simple to work?

      Remove whatever additions "friend" made to the floor,  which should then leave just the truss top and bottom chords if I understand it correctly?

      Skin one side of the truss with ply using glue and a zillion staples. MAYBE add a 2x4 at the ply joints to provide continuity.

      Too easy? Too something else?

      Joe H

      1. User avater
        BossHog | Nov 14, 2003 06:03pm | #11

        Seems like you're going to a whole lot of trouble to do something outlandish, with no real idea if it's necessary, or overkill, or even adequate.

        Covering the whole thing with plywood would certainly make attic access difficult if you needed to work on something up there. And staples have very little structural value due to the small shank size.

        In the long run, I figure it will take less time and efort just to do it right. All that needs done in this case is to replace a couple of webs.Get the facts first. You can distort them later.

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