Trying to find a good description of how to frame a shower stall seat. Framing sub assured me he knew how to do it. After two separate attempts I’m still left with something that is rickety at best. Both the plumber and tileman have said it needs to be reframed. Can anyone describe the best technique or refer me to some source that illustrates this? The architect’s design calls for a seat that extends across the entire wall of the shower and over the curb where a shower door and fixed glass panel will form the fourth wall (the fixed glass panel would rest on the shower bench edge itself. I’ve seen this done in other homes so I’m sure it’s possible. The seat is an important design aspect of the bath and I would hate to eliminate it just for expediency sake. Thanks.
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The architect should make a detailed drawing for that seat. It's part of his design, isn't it?
I've had this kind of problem with architects too often to count. They don't want to take the time to draw details because it's too much like working for a living.
Think it's hard getting paid to be a carpenter? Try getting paid for drawing details. Owners just love to pay for stuff that they think a carpenter should be able to build without detailed drawings. Anything after schematics, they don't see the need. We actually budget for giving back about 50% of what we charge, after schematics. Sucks.
Sorry, heard it from both ends (carpenters and owners) for the last couple of weeks. Can't make anyone happy.
I like this product: http://www.innoviscorp.com/better-bench.php. It simplifies things greatly. Even better, don't build the bench in, use a freestanding one. That really simplifies things.
The main problem for a carpentry contractor, when building a custom detail without a drawing, is that he leaves it open to be rejected by the architect or the home owner.
He may also be leaving himself open to law suits if someone gets hurt while using something like this shower bench, built without a detail drawing.
Good point.
What about when pretty much every detail on the house is custom? Who decides what gets detailed, and what is left to the craftsman?
I'm serious, this is a major issue for us. It even varies between our two construction crews. On foreman likes details, the other just wants an overview.
What about when pretty much every detail on the house is custom? Who decides what gets detailed, and what is left to the craftsman?
For me, as a contractor who's had some schooling about legal responsibilities, anything non-standard must have a detail drawing. I'd even prefer a detail for typical framing, as a reference, practically and legally.
That's the way prints are done for commercial jobs, particularly government work, so why should it be different for custom homes?
I really can't understand a contractor not wanting detail drawings for custom work. He's just asking for trouble, or he's looking for ways to be agreeable so he'll be favored by the archy in the future.
One possible solution: If you've done the detail before and have photos, load them on a CD or print them up and make them part of the plans. It's hard to misinterpret a good photo and it's about ten times easier than doing the drawing.
Many photo threads here provide proof that it's more effective to communicate through photos than it is with drawings and words.
Edited 7/15/2009 10:54 am by Hudson Valley Carpenter
Good idea, I incorporate photos into my drawings to convey non-standard details all of the time, along with the necessary sections it is a really helpful aid to those responsible for constructing, and is quite simple to import into cad programs.
I agree. Too many owners just say "All I need is a permit set" and that's what winds up in the carpenters hands.
Runnerguy
Is this a floating seat or box framed and wrapped/tiled?
There are multiple ways to include a shower seat into the design; fixed, floating, supported/unsupported. What is the material being used?
wood framing is a poor way to do your seat.
Look at block or a floating seat:
http://johnbridge.com/shower_seats.htm
or Better-Bench:
http://www.innoviscorp.com/index.php
I must be missing something. This just seems too simple.
We built ours out a few short stud walls and sheathed them with osb. They were always rock solid. They wouldn't hold more than 15,000 pounds, so if the lady is extra heavy...you might have to beef it up.
"(the fixed glass panel would rest on the shower bench edge itself. I've seen this done in other homes so I'm sure it's possible."
No you haven't.
The glass panel was sitting on a knee (half height) wall or sitting on the curb and the bench was installed just short of the glass panel. So -
Solution One: Build a knee wall (to be tiled) on which the glass panel will sit. Span the bench between the shower wall and knee wall.
Solution 2: Install 2 steel brackets from the wall behind the seat. This will support the seat. The seat will be just short of the rear wall and the two side walls. This will allow water, shampoo, etc to runoff and make it easier to clean.
Solution III: Build a seat out of concrete block and tile over. But this isn't a bench. It's a seat, so refer to Solution One and 2 above.
Frankie
Edited to add: Okay, maybe you did see it if the seat was sitting on top of a knee wall but I doubt it. Think - bench, caulk, tile, grout and glass - too many materials to meet at one spot in harmony. Do-able but you would not have walked away with fond recall. IMHO.
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Edited 7/14/2009 7:58 pm ET by Frankie
I second (or third or fourth, I lost count) the block choice. Builder put mine in with framing and OSB, within 6 months, the tile popped due to swelling.
Water WILL get behind the tile, so use a material that will not be affected by it
Or use Kerdi.If the water will get behind the tile and wet the block, don't you think the wood framing that the block touches will suffer just like your OSB did?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
two concrete blocks and tile them