I saw this saw in Larry Haun’s Efficient Framing book and was wondering if anyone has used one of these saws. The look like they cut the birds mouths fast. If i were to get one of these, is there anything important to know about using it… Safety for one.
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Is this what you are talking about?
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Gord
Man... that looks like something from "Texas Skilsaw Massacre, Pt. V".
I'll take a pass.
PaulB
DW called it the "Freddy Kruger Saw"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.(Article 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights)
'nuff injuries for a while eh?
[email protected]
Pretty soon I'm going to start going to work in medieval chainmail armor...PaulB
scary
"I never met a man who didn't owe somebody something."
A fella could have a lot of fun with the new guy and that saw.All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.(Article 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights)
what??? you don't like the new guy????
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Just because I want to scare the #### out of the new guy doesn't mean I don't like him, his new truck, 20 yr old gf, and his full head of hair.All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.(Article 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights)
a new truck and that full head of hair is pushing the limits...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Who needs that when you could have this?
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Yeah, thats the one... I recently bought a used one online. I hear that they've been taken off the market. Its a product of Pairis Enterprises. I've googled it and have found very little information on it.
How do you use one? Clamp a guide along a series of rafters and go to it?
I could not imagine freehanding with that saw.
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.(Article 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights)
117 Groover on eBay
Though
you guys might be interested, just saw a 117 groover on eBay. It's in great condition.
Great tool.
Hard to find these days. if you find a source let me know.
Have you used one? Any safety tips?
I used them in the late 80's , when I was doing piece work out in the valley. Seemed like alot of guys had them,I was pretty young and was spending my money on beer and new hammer handles. At that time I was rarely on the trigger , I was usually up on the plates getting yelled at for f ing up layout or nailing stuff on the wrong side of the x. Good stuf
As far as safety goes,dont drop it.
Do you have a connection for them ? Where did you get it?
I don't have a connection... I just found it on kregs list. I'm hoping that it will bolt right on to my magnesium skil saw.
Hope it slides on for ya....I saw one for sale in kansas craigs list but it was already sold , mabye that was you.
safety first
Got it in the mail today... Bolted right on. I have yet to try it out. That stack of dado blades really hums when you pull the trigger. -h
Right on .......Post a pic if you get a chance.
Here it is... I still haven't had a chance to try it out... the blades still have the protective plastic on them. -h
I'll be the first to admit... I'm totally jealous. Skil actually used to make a saw in that configuration right out of the box. It was designed for plowing a dado into a beam to run wire. Nifty framers then figured out how to remove the lower guard so you could get the bevel action to work.
If you ever get a chance to see the companion video to Will Holladay's "Roof Cutter's Secrets" then you can hear the story as well as see Will's totally cherry specimen of the saw. The Skil model was called the 117 Groover. Even the name was cool. For me, it's the holy grail for my collection of roof cutting saws. I'd pay $1500 for one in mint condition tomorrow if I could find one. View Image
I'm up for selling the one that I have. I'm realizing that i would find more uses for a beam type saw. I'm interested in the Big Foot conversion with their swing plate. I also have been looking at the Makita 16" saw. Do you know if they have a swing plate for the Makita?
I've never seen a swing table for the 16" Makita, but that doesn't mean one doesn't exist. That being said, I seriously doubt it. I've never owned the 16" Makita, but most of what I've read on it, and I've read a fair number of reviews on that saw, says that the saw is finicky at best. It wouldn't be my first choice in a large circular saw.
I'd look at the 14" Big Foot first. It's a more substantial saw and comes with a swing table out of the box. That being said, keep in mind that ALL of these large blade saws (especially including the Makita) have undersized motors. This keeps their size and weight managable as well as allowing for easy conversion kits with standardized saws and parts. But this creates a bit of a learning curve with them. They tend to bind easy and can be frustrating at first. I found using 2x fences tacked to the stock helped at first with long cuts. You can and will get the hang of using them though. Even the 10" Bigfoot has a bit of a learning curve to it, although not as bad. Compound miters can be tricky though. But you sure can make an octagon roof or bastard hip/valley look killer with those sharp acute angle cheek cuts.
For gang cutting birdsmouths, I'm convinced that making two passes with a saw/swing table combination is the way to go. The dado saws tend to be useable up to around 6 pitch or so. Here in New England, most of what I frame tends to be more like 10 and 12 pitch. Lower pitches are fairly common in auxillary roofs... porches, shed roofs, etc. You can get a deeper bird's mouth with a saw/swing combo too... useful for vaulted ceilings and such where it's favorable to have the bottom of the rafter plane right down to the inside of the top plate.
I'm really more interested in the dado saws for collector's reasons. But if you're serious about selling, I'm serious about buying. But just to clarify, when I said I'd pay $1500 for one tomorrow, I was referring to an excellent condition Skil 117 Groover, not a conversion like the Pairis unit. But I would still be interested in your unit as well. Shoot me an email through my profile if and when you want to sell.
And if you have any specific questions about any of the Bigfoot Saws I'd be happy to answer them to the best of my ability. I've got a 10" w/ regular table with a Skil77 motor. And I've got a 10" with swing table on a Bosch 77 motor. As well as the 14" BigBoy/swing on a Bosch motor as well. I prefer the extra two amps of the Bosch motors on anything with a swing table. Helps keep that blade spinning a little better.
I've also got a Big Foot Head Cutter on a Stihl gasser with a 20" bar if you decide to go that route for your ridge cuts. That set up makes I-Joist packages far more managable, profitable,........ and fun. ;)
Tim Uhler is another guy who hangs around here who has a wealth of information to share on these large saws and gang cutting as well.
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Edited 3/28/2008 9:44 pm ET by dieselpig
Thanks for the reply. I'll be sure to let you know if/when I'm going to sell it. It came in really handy for a canoe shed that I just built. The building was going to have 10' high walls and a 12/12 pitch. I wanted to maximize the room upstairs, so I balloon framed it and let in a 2x4 for the joists to sit on. Thats where the dado saw was very handy. It cuts 2.5 inches per pass, so it took 2 passes. It really hums when it gets up to speed.-h
Here are some pictures of the Skil dado saw in action.
I purchased the big foot head cutter for the canoe shed roof. It worked fantastic. I haven't done a whole lot of gang cutting anything before, but I've seen the light. It really is the way to go. It does take time to set up, but in the end its quicker and more predictable then cutting each piece individually. I've attached some Pictures.-h
Nice pictures! The Headcutter is a great tool, just be careufl :-)
http://picasaweb.google.com/TimothyUhler/Lot30Muirkirk/photo#5192220471367595474
Thanks for sharing the pictures. I'm from Michigan and haven't seen many builders framing a roof. It seems like everyone uses trusses. I would like to try a little more complicated roof some time.-h
I know they make an auxillary table for the Makikta 16" saw, its supposed to be much more rigid than the stock table it comes with. I saw a link on a framing forum a few months ago.
I am not sure if they make a swing table for it though.
The Makita is a great saw, I bought one a little while ago and was quite suprised how well it worked. I bought mine lightly used for $250 I believe off of Craigslist.
Woods favorite carpenter
$250 is a great price Matt. I'd probably have a hard time walking past that deal myself. Do you find it bogs down much? What have you used it on so far? View Image
For $250 shipped to my house I couldn't pass on it, I've used it alot since I bought it. Had to cost close to $50 to ship the beast. The seller used it once on his log home addition and sold it after he lost his job.
I cut 6x6's in one pass. I gang cut stair stringers with it, it overcut the top two but those got sistered with another 2x12 to make it look like an open stringer. Dead on stringers, the best set I've ever cut. I made sure it was cutting square and gang cut the stringers in about 20 minutes.
I didn't bog down at all on the treated 6x's, or the stack of Southern Yellow Pine stringers. It has really suprised me, I got my moneys worth in that saw.
Woods favorite carpenter
That's good to hear Matt. I'd always heard that those saws were dogs and tended to shy away from them. Sounds like it was worth the $250 all day long.View Image
Keep your eyes peeled for a good deal on one, it has suprised me.
Heres a link to me using mine, with pictures.
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=101129.1
I'll be looking into the aftermarket table for mine when I get back on my feet, but that won't be until at least the end of May. Woods favorite carpenter
DP,
Not that you'll need it, but if you see a need for that saw let me know. As you know I'm out until the end of May, maybe longer.
I'll let you borrow it, you take good care of your tools so I have no issues with you borrowing the saw for a little while. Think of it as a trial offer, you can try it without buying it. Woods favorite carpenter
Hey, I appreciate that Matt. No call for it at this moment, but if something comes up I'll let you know.View Image
No problem, I can't use it for the next few months, someone may as well get some miles out of it.
Shipping may be a bear, it weighs about 30 lbs. But a small price to pay for a free trial of an expensive saw. Woods favorite carpenter
Still got your Groover saw?
Is it for sale?
I've been trying to hunt one of those down for about 8 years now without any success. I want one more for my collection than anything else....with the new large blade saws available, I believe there's better ways to cut a bird's mouth. But it would be nice to have one around anyway.
That being said....if OSHA ever snoops around your sites, don't get caught with that thing out. They'll smoke you for it. And yet a chainsaw is fine. Go figure. I believe that OSHA safety violations are the reason that those conversions aren't manufactured any more.
OSHA is a buzzkill man, I want a dado saw too. I'd give my stones for one. Woods favorite carpenter
Sounds like if one shows up on e-bay the bidding could be fierce...Where is that photo from ? the saw looks new...
Does anybody know a machine shop guy that could put a couple dozen together ?
you can buy the table here.
http://item.express.ebay.com/__Saws_DADO-SWING-TABLE-up-to-8-25-BLADE-SKIL-SAW-CONSTRUCTION_W0QQitemZ230228226454QQihZ013QQptdnZSawsQQptdiZ1227QQcmdZExpressItem
But you would still need to have a gaurd made.
cool ...thanks.
I want a plug and go model though.
I got one of them Mantis Tillers..I bet with a little tweaking.....hmmmSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
that'l work.you could set it up with a railroad tie straight edge and clean up the dado with a hoe.
Speaking of those....
I been eyeing them, wondering if they would mix deck mud for a tile shower.
Any opinion on this?
dug- thinking outside the box
Out doors in a mortar box, sure.
I use a weed eater in a trash can full of water to slurry up cardboard into hydro mulch for the gardens, just mix it like cardboard mache', and dump on the beds for weed control.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
You can do the same with dog hair.
Especially if you keep all those pups!
I use a weed eater in a trash can full of water to slurry up cardboard into hydro mulch for the gardens, just mix it like cardboard mache', and dump on the beds for weed control.
Huh. I do the same w/ leaves in the fall for the compost pile and winter mulching of my garlic beds.
Jason
And it doesn't make an awful mess....and clog up the head?????
<i>And it doesn't make an awful mess....and clog up the head?????</i>
Nope. Put 'em in a metal trashcan to contain them, and use a string trimmer.
I'll have to see if my co-worker has a digital photo of the go-kart that he made for his kid using the mantis tiller as the drive unit.
The handles served as the frame that he attached a seat to. The front end and steering are from an old peddle go-kart.
Lots of traction with those tines.
A.
OSHA is totally a buzzkill. Don't get me started or there willl be a flame war going in no time. View Image
Brian,
John Harman who wrote the gang cutting article for JLC back in 04 I think had a local shop make one.
If you really want one, email me because I think I have a good idea where you could get one made.
John said you'd only use them up to a 7-12 because after that it'd take too much wood at a time and wear out the saw. I'm with you, I'd just as soon use the Big Foot to and run two passes.
It sure would be cool to have one though :-)
Oh yeah... I remember John Harmon. I came pretty close to subbing a roof out to him a few years ago. He was going to fly up and cut it so that I could learn his cutting techniques from him. Woulda been cool, but for one reason or another, it didn't work out.
I'm a little light on cash right now with taxes and my WC audit coming up. But I'll keep it in mind. I keep hoping that I'll stumble across one on Craig's List when some old dog closes up shop for good.View Image
Hey if you ever decide to go with timuhler"s guy let me know...
Mabye we could pull some guys together and get a dozen made and that might lower the price....
Who wouldn't want a custom saw..
Not near as gnarly looking, but it does pretty much the same thing:
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http://www.mafell.com/produkte/prod_fraesen_zk115l_i.htm
Photoshopped?
I don't understand..."photoshopped" I'm anxiously waiting for the used one that i purchased to come in the mail.
Photoshopped as in Adobe image editor
I'm not sure if they are big enough or even still available, but I have a set of dado blades for circular saws that Craftsman used to make. Comes in a small box, about 5" in diameter.
117 groover saw
Are you still interested in a 117 groover in mint condition? i have one here
How wide does it cut?
Still got the Grover saw?
If so, please let me know what you're asking.
How can I get one?
skill saw dado kit
yes i have used this and back in the day when i used to piece frame in southeren Calif. It wasa the greatest saw i could ever want to own. I would be able to cut a roof in 1/3 the time of cutting it the standard method.So if you have done any type of piece before then you know time is money.It is not a saw for the newbe or the homeowner as a matter of fact we had given it a nickname of "THE BONE CRUSHER" with that being said you should understand just like any saw it demandsyour utmost respect while useing it . i have found the key behind it is to let the saw do the work take your time and pay attention to your work.