OK, yesterday was the first time I’ve worked all day with a quantity of the new lumber. This batch was CA-B. Set about 100 joists.
First, yesterday I pulled out maybe 7 or 8 small spinters from my hands/fingers. Nothing major, like 1/8 to 1/4″, 28ga or so. This morning, I had a little pocket of puss (put your lunch down now) at each of the points where I had a splinter, and each point was pretty sore. Never had this reaction with CCA (maybe the arsenic killed the germs?).
I wore long pants, and the fronts of each leg were pretty grimy and nasty from all the toting and handling the wood. This morning my legs had what felt lke sunburn. slight visible redness/rash. In the shower, under hot water, it felt like a good sunburn.
On my chest, I have a pretty good pimply rash, over about 30 square inches.
I’ve NEVER had a rash/etc of any type, never reacted to anything like poison ivy, etc. Yellow jackets won’t leave a visible mark, wasp/hornet stings look better than a mosquito bite on most people, so I really don’t think it was anything environmental other than the wood.
CA-B treated wood was ALL i handled yesterday. Lunch was the same as usual, same old sammiches from home, supper was a grilled chicken at home, so I don’t think food related.
Anybody else out there have reactions like this to the CA-B (or ACQ) lumber?
PB
Replies
Well, not yet, but I don't find it particularly surprising either. I've been lucky enough to still have someone to supply CCA, and their stores just ran out in April. I haven't needed any since then.
But I'm a sensitive guy too, and I've found a number of things I can come into contact with that the epidermis doesn't agree with. Walnut tops the list. Some lacquers - I walk through a house being sprayed and I'm one giant welt for 24 hours. Topical steroids can ease some of the issue, but that's fighting the fire after it started. I don't have any good preventative thoughts short of avoiding stuff that doesn't like you, and there's times where that gets mighty impractical.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
last week I replaced some steps going from the ground up on an exterior deck, was on my knees wearing jeans, my kneecaps burned a few hours after I was done and they were red for a day or so after that. did sorta feel like a sunburn. The boards I had were pretty wet which probably made it worse.
This stuff is supposed to be safer? I don't ever remember having any sort of reaction to CCA
I'd like to find the idiot at the EPA that decided to create all these problems, between burning flesh and eating nails this stuff can't be any better.
Ok ..... to sorta hijack this thread, explain this. All new pt wood decks on north and south side of house, built last fall. There is some yard/grass growing under both decks for several feet inward. That's the best grass in my yard. It's lush , deep green, grows super fast . All of this only occures under the "drip line" of the deck. What kind of super fertilizer is leaching out of this wood?
Luckily no reaction problems for me.
I'd like to find the idiot at the EPA that decided to create all these problems, between burning flesh and eating nails this stuff can't be any better.
Look at it this way ... just like medicine ... the worse it tastes ... or more it burns ... the better it is! Same with most building materials ... like adhesives and solvents ... if one whif will knock ya on the floor ... you know it's going to work.
So .. maybe this new stuff will really work well in the long run ...
aside from killing everything near it ....
I haven't even seen the new stuff yet ...
but with the old pt .... I had to immediately perform job site surgery if I got a splinter ... or the next day I'd have a big puss filled puncture wound.
that's anout the only "reaction" to materials I get .. not much else bothers me ...
now I'm curious about this new lumber .....
JeffBuck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
Now that you mention it -
I framed a couple decks the last cpouple of weeks and found my thighs and hips irritated with a kind of prickly heat rash. Hmmmmmmmm....
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Spent all last week building a deck, handling that stuff. The only thing I had a reaction to was the sun, heat, and all the work. What's that song, 'the back of my neck do burn very pretty...'
As in all things that effect people, some have lower thresholds of reaction than others. I can't wear shoes whose leather is dyed brown because the dye (after my feet get wet from sweat) leaches out and causes a rash like poison ivy right below my ankles.
I am putting in a deck and the new PT stinks to work with, my arms always feel irritated, and any of the time I take my respirator off I find myself will a hell of a raspy throat. It also doesnto seem to work as well as the old CCA stuff either...
Norm told me years ago to wear gloves, mask and eye protection when handling pt wood. Thought he was joking - guess not. The stuff bothers me--------what's in it, agent orange?
Watch your topnotch, Carl
I haven't seen the MSDS sheet on CA-B (Borate) treated lumber, but I've done a little research on the ACQ (Alkaline Copper Quaternary).
As the name implies, ACQ is made with a copper compund that is classified as a"strongly basic" chemical compound (alkaline or caustic like lye or crystal drano)...so exposure of your skin to the wet lumber may cause irritation or "skin burns". Even dry wood sawdust on sweaty skin may pose an irritation hazard.
Inhalation of sawdust is to be avoided also....both dry or wet lumber. A real throat & lung irritant potential.
Longsleeved shirt, respirator, gloves should be used to prevent hazardous contact with the irritants. Sounds like a "biohazard" movie.
I would surmise that if the ACQ is fresh from the treater it will be dripping wet and you may have to have gloves and apron or pants that have waterproofing applied to keep the chemicals from your skin.
If you have "aligator" skin or just a "tough old bird" then you will probably blow all this warning off.....just check it out carefully for your personal limits as we try out this new and better product?!
...................Iron Helix
I'm sure all the cats and dogs and barefoot youngun's are going to enjoy those new ACQ decks, especially after a rain.
Maybe the local governments will impose child endangerment laws if you let a kid walk on one.
The state of Ct put out an advisory to all contractors regarding CCA. I havent seen anything regarding the copper based chem as yet.
Just the same I never use it where it will make human contact. Last summer I finished a basement for a friend who has a little boy who is hypersensitive to chemicals. Instead of using CCA for my bottom plate I stapled 30# tarpaper strips to doug fir. At first glance the inspector thought I had made his day.
I always get a kick out of people who build picnic tables with treated wood.
There is an MSDS for ACQ at: http://www.pacificwood.com/msdssheets/acq1.pdf
Regarding skin problems, it says that exposure can cause dermitis and that splinters can result in ulcerations - not much else. (It also mentions that exposure to wood dust in general can lead to a reduction in your sense of smell...)
You may want to get some barrier cream. My local safety store carries several types of the stuff depending on just what conditions you will be working under. Several listings on-line, but couldn't find one that looked particularly noteworthy...
An Australian website on contact dermatitis: http://www.safetyline.wa.gov.au/pagebin/pg000655.htm
Says not to use the barrier creams on skin that already has contact dermatitis.
While at the Burning Man event in the Nevada desert we were warned to wash our hands and feet every day because of the very alkili(sp) dust from the plya. Some people even used a spray bottle with a mixture of vinigar and water to neutralize the burning efeect of the dust. I would recomend the same thing, keep a spray bottle handy on the days you are working with ACQ. At lunch and the end of the day spay exposed skin and clothes with the solution before you wash.
Huh! Funny you should mention this-- I spent the last four days working with ACQ putting up the ledger, posts and beams for a deck. I thought I must have come in contact with old poison ivy roots or something because I have a rash here and there. In hindsight, though, I think it very well might be a reaction to the ACQ where sawdust and sweat mixed together. I'll have to see over the next couple of days if it develops into a poison ivy looking rash or not.
J Painter
Hey, all you sensitive guys out there! (I'm one too. Posion oak and English Ivy cause blisters with plasma oozing through my skin.)
1) clothing. In haz waste work, we blow through Tyvek coveralls. One in the morning and one in the afternoon. Must less permible than T-shirts and jeans.
2) barrier creams. Tech-Nu is a barrier cream for posion oak, but I suspect it would help with the new PT wood.
3) skin thickness. Like posion oak, it sounds like everyone is reacting where the skin is thinnest. Not on their palms (thick) where there is the most exposure, but on their trunk where is the skin is thinner.
4) drugs. If it bothers your nose in a hay-fever kind of way, nasal steriods would likely help. A puff a day in each nostril for a 2 days prior and during exposure. Prescription only. Any antihistamine might help as well benyldryl is over the counter but makes you drowsy. Not a wonder cure, but it would cut down on the itching. Probably best an hour before bed time when you want to sleepy anyway.
5) worker's comp. What happens when the hired helps hears of this? And their dermatologists get on the gravy train? (Dermatology - the ideal speciality - the patient never dies and the patient never gets better). You deckers are going to have to start finding some really thick-skinned and dim-witted help or you'll be creating a whole generation of retirees.
Stand upwind. Wear gloves. Carry it away from your body. Add 30% to your bids. Let someone else do the work.
Years ago I did a job with freshly treated CCA. I built trwo 40 foot diameter by 8 foot high tanks for the university in Newfoundland to keep seals in.
By the end of the first day, my arms were covered in hives from fingertip to elbow.
The husband of the woman in charge of the project was a physician. I aked him what I should do. He asked, "Do you know what caused this?"
"Yes", I said.
"Stop doing it."
Ron
Got a splinter from the stuff a month ago (actually two splinters, but I got one out), and it was small and deep -- couldn't remove easily, so I forgot about it. A week later, it started to hurt and was infected (pus). Finally, after another week when it hadn't subsided, I did what my mother always did -- sterilized a needle and dug it out. On the Web I found that any wood splinter can cause this, so I'm hesitant to attribute this to the PT lumber.
I did a smallish deck and I haven't had any problems - yet. Guess I'm one of the lucky ones...stuff was sopping wet and a PITA on my saw blades, leaving a heavy, gummy residue though. No reaction to splinters either, though I didn't have any over-nighters. I'm worried that the hangers might rot before my electrician comes and allows me to beadboard the ceiling...
Edited 5/19/2004 8:40 pm ET by Dancing Demon
I built a fence last weekend with the ACQ and didn't have any problems -- until Monday night when I noticed that the area around my nose was all broken out. I wore gloves only part of the time and I'm sure that I rubbed my nose, adjusted my glasses etc. with my ACQ hands. Stange stuff.
Billy
Edited 5/20/2004 11:22 am ET by Billy
I've sat and watched carpenter bees drilling holes in CCA.
I'm curious if the bees will chew on the ACQ.