New home built 10 mos ago. We are getting a very strong musty potato smell coming from the baseboards on the outer walls and along the supporting walls.
The builder did not install drainage tile. They have told us because we are slab on grade it was not required. However we do have a frost wall under.
After seeing frogs around the foundation they did come in and put a hole and installed a pipe draining the water. The water gushed out for 8 straight hours like a fire hydrant.
We know there is still water underneath that the level only went down as far as the pipe.
The smell is very strong at times.
The main floor bathroom for the past 9 1/2 months has not been used and we have had it closed up.
Finally the new home warranty has stepped in and forced the builder to deal with this. One area in the bathroom was around the clean out pipe going through the slab had to be sealed all around with cement and the crack along that same wall where the clean out pipe was had to be sealed with black rubbery caulking.
This helped alot but there is still a problem.
The floor drain also has a very heavy musty smell coming from it also. We had to tape it up. Adding water, javex does nothing.
We also have infloor heating which I am sure has created a sauna underneath the slab.
If anyone can give us any advise it would be greatly appreciated
Thank you
Debbie
Replies
Where are you located?
"We also have infloor heating which I am sure has created a sauna underneath the slab. "
What kind? Are you talking about radaint or ducts under the slab?
I have heating ducts under the slab. It was normally very dry.
But ever other year they would get 1/3 full for about 24 hours and it was BAD in the house.
I had good drainage and on a hillside, but a missplaced drain from a higher level was terminated at this level. After I extended it out no problems.
But it sounds like you might have a high water level.
We have radiant infloor heating. We have a heating company and installed ourselves. We know the system is not leaking when it was installed everything was pressure tested.
The ground is fairly level but does slop slightly towards the front of the house. We do know there is quite a bit of clay.
This problem has been in the house since the second day we moved in and has never gone away.
We hired an engineer and he has concluded that there was no drainage tile installed.
In August after is was quite apparent the water was all around the outside wall frogs had even taken up residence the contractor a makeshift drain from the side of the frost wall to relieve the water around the house. This did correct that problem however the water level only went down as far as the hole. So they closed up that hole and drilled another approximately 2 feet below and installed another makeshift drain. The engineer feels had they not done this at least we could have had serious structure damage.
We do know that around the boxed area under the shower that the wood, insulation and vapor barrier are dripping with water. The contractor tells us this is quite normal and is condensation
The contractor that built the house insist that because we are a slab the o pipe is not required to be installed. However the engineer said it is not a true slab on grade because there is a frost wall therefore the drainage pipe should have been installed.
The water under the porch was approximate 2 feet deep and was there all summer until the contractor finally agreed that the stale stagnet water was a problem so they pumbed the water out, removed four (4) boards wheel barrelled in dirt to build up the area almost within an inch to the opening of the front door. The dirt is right under the deck boards (you can see it through the cracks of the boards).
I have a feeling this is going to end up in legal dispute.
I need all the help and any information that anyone can help me with this.
Thanks
Edited 3/3/2005 12:17 am ET by debbie
Edited 3/3/2005 12:23 am ET by debbie
"I have a feeling this is going to end up in legal dispute. "
Seems like this is where it is heading. Unfortunately.
Whether it is "required" or not is mute... you have a water issue. There probably wasn't a geological study done... am I correct?
The first approach is to find out exactly what the problem is. If you have a sand seam below the house... you will need extensive drainage engineered to remove the water (worst case scenario beyond having a spring under the house).
The best way to start, IMO, is to have a geo firm come out and drill core samples. Of course, this is after you explain the problem to them and they lay out a plan to identify where the water is coming from.
If they find nothing of substance, it COULD (doubt it... but it COULD) be that the slab was poured over an unusually swampy base (thick ice, etc). Only a moron would do this without abating the water issues... but I have seen it. If so... the drainage holes will help alleviate the problem... and over time, it will improve. It will take a while though.
Building up the space below your porch did not fix the real problem... most likely. Without compaction of clay soil in that area and creating a drainage system to remove the water... the only real effect this would have would be to create a place that would hold the moisture better than before. Mud covered by soil. Ferments real pungently if there is any organic material in the fill.
Condensation does not create an area that is "dripping with water" unless you have a house that doesn't breathe a lick. If it is condensation... something is cooking a LOT of water... and correcting the source of the water is the real answer.
All that said... a concrete slab will continue to cure for several years. It should not be noticeable after 10 months, however. You may notice a musty smell on an unusually humid day... or in the winter when the house has been closed up for extended periods with the heat turned down ... but it wouldn't be noticeable all of the time.
Bottom line... get the water problem cured. If you need drain tile... so be it. Cheap fix compared with tearing it down and rebuilding it. If you have a sand seam or something similar... hopefully it will be shallow enough that you can excavate and replace with compacted clay.
Nothing is impossible... but without some expert assistance to identify the source of the problem, the multitude of fixes that COULD solve the problem can get REAL expensive.
NOTE... I have only listed a few of the possible issues that could cause the problem. Don't take my post as a cause for concern or alarm... just tossing out some of the possibilities that perhaps a traditional engineer might not think of (unless he/she is a geo-engineer).
Thank you for your input Rich from Columbus.
We bought this house from the contractor (he is one of the larger builders in the area) and we assumed things would be done proper.
Their radio ads boast customer satisfaction.
Debbie
You bought a spec house (house already built and then sold by the builder)? or "his" house? Not that it SHOULD make a difference... but it normally does, unfortunately.
On a spec house.. I would almost guarantee that core samples were not taken... unless required by code. If it hasn't been done... this is the first place I would start. It could answer lots of questions for a relatively low cost (yea, I know... cost is relative).
Without knowing the outside conditions... it is nearly impossible to narrow down the source of the water moving into the living space.
One other question just popped into my head. How is your roof water handled? I assume gutters, to down spouts... but then where?
If it is only being dropped off onto a splash block.. then there is gravel next to foundation and the splash block doesn't get the water past the gravel... it could be acting like a small french drain; only it's set in clay (water doesn't dissipate into extremely heavy clay soil). It just another SWAG... but could happen. This could be the source of the water under your porch after a thought or two (not something I do well this late... can't sleep LOL)
Edited 3/3/2005 1:47 am ET by Rich from Columbus
The house is in a subdivision of 2 acre lots. We could have either had a house built from the contractors group of plans or had one designed. We had a desinger sketch the outside and inside of the house. The contractor had the blueprint drawn of from the design.
There is no gravel against the house. All they did was bring in soil and rough grade around.
Since the last time I wrote the smell has spread and worsen and not is affecting more rooms.
The building code states that unless proven unnessary drainage tile is to be installed.
The municipality is the governing body that decides whether it is required. I got angy after I wrote my last message and call my councillor and demanded an explanation. They send over their engineers and it has been decided one side of the house will require drainage tile.
Also when we bought our house we had purchased a corner lot knowing that eventually a there would be a road built. The contractor who is also the developer neglected to provid proper drainage.
The engineers noticed that the front and side of the lot may have not had proper ditches. They have to wait until all the snow is gone before they can make decission.
I deserve an explanation.
This next paragraph will explain why I am so angry about this.
My son has asthma and within in 2 months of living in this house he was rushed to the hospital and ended up on life support. He went into a coma. Thankfully he did recover. However he is no longer living here.
For the past year we have endoured the contractor denying a problem. Until we got the new home warranty involved last October. Since then all that has been done is tried putting a bandade on the problem hoping it would all disappear. If anything all they have done is allowed the situation to worsen.
Hopefully the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
Thank you for your response and I welcome any info that can help me.
Debbie
Edited 3/6/2005 2:02 am ET by debbie
You are getting good advice from Rich and Bill. And it sounds like you have already been in touch with the appropriate city officials.I would suggest you start asking around about a lawyer in your area who has experience with house warranty issues. I suspect the drainage problems are just the tip of the iceberg, and severe mold problems are probably inevitable. If you haven't already done so, I would start documenting every conversation about these matters. I would also prepare a written record that covers the entire history of your complaints about the house. Photos too. Getting a lawyer at this point may be costly, but I think you need to measure that expense against the cost of having a house that will end up unhabitable -- which for your son, it already is. This is really horrible, and I am really sorry about the plight you are in.
I should point out that I am a complete nut about water issue abatement. I have water issues that I have spent hours and hours fixing on my own house.
The acceptable amount of water next to the foundation, in my opinion, is "none". (great goal... but I realize not completely doable. Doesn't keep me from still striving for the goal)
Even if you have to spend your own money... get a soils engineer out to look at the problem. Allow them to drill some core samples to see what the ground makeup is and then make a recomendation.
The obvious approach is to abate the water from around your house. Drain tile on one side will not fix the problem... it will simply move the problem to another area (unless you have a hillside around your house that drains negatively to your foundation and the drain tile diverts the water to an acceptable location... such as the ditch or storm water collection).
Bottom line. You need to keep the water from infiltrating. Water will follow the course of least resistance. If the natural place for the water to migrate is around your foundation... you need to create a way for the water to have an easier flow AWAY from your foundation (sounds simple... but isn't necessarily). In addition... if you have a sand seam (my gut feeling based on ABSOLUTELY no solid facts.. or even shaky facts, for that matter)... that problem needs to be remedied and sealed properly away from your foundation... and a water abatement system put in place to divert the water.. again... to an acceptable place.
You can fight with the builder until the cows come home. In the mean time, your house is getting worse. If it is his problem... he will have to pay for the abatement procedures WITHOUT his input nor his ability to relieve costs. If he isn't responsible... you still need the work done.
Talk to your lawyer to assure that you proceed in a way that is able to be subrogated if the problem is his (which is my guess.. but will probably be decided by a jury, in the end. Plus... I am not standing there looking at the problem).
IF you continue to fight the fight... and NOT fix the problem... you could have much worse problem to fix in the end. And if you lose your fight... the costs of remediation will be much higher than they already are if you do not take action (keep in mind... spring is on the way)
"We have radiant infloor heating. We have a heating company and installed ourselves."When did (or contract) you buy the house (in terms of construction).some of your message make it sound like this was a spec house that you bought,Or where you hire as the heating sub and latter designed to buy the house?Is there a vapor barrier under the slad?"So they closed up that hole and drilled another approximately 2 feet below and installed another makeshift drain."This is only one drained by a "hole". If you have clay and water a hole is not going to do anything. You need a drain system around the house."The contractor that built the house insist that because we are a slab the o pipe is not required to be installed. However the engineer said it is not a true slab on grade because there is a frost wall therefore the drainage pipe should have been installed."I don't know why that makes any differnece. The problems are the same you need to keep the water out. BTW, that is the way mine house is constructed. I am assuming that you are in a less than warm climate."We do know that around the boxed area under the shower that the wood, insulation and vapor barrier are dripping with water. The contractor tells us this is quite normal and is condensation"Well it might be condensations, but it is NOT NORMAL.You need to get a humity guage and monitor the Rh in the house.