This slate counter was just installed on one of our jobs. They drilled a hole to relieve stress and filled it with epoxy. The stone guy said they’d replace the backsplash but that the hole is standard practice for them. What do you think?
From building boxes and fitting face frames to installing doors and drawers, these techniques could be used for lots of cabinet projects.
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Unacceptable. Now had the slab been in for a few years and for whatever reason cracked, the drilling a small hole at the end of the crack is one "repair" method. Actually, it's not even a repair method. It's just a technique to try to prevent the crack from propagating.But for a new installation? Cracked slate? Not in my world.
What about the long crack terminated by the stress relief drilling? They gonna make that go away, too?
Send it back!
That's a "vein."
Is the "vein" a streak of white quartz firmly bonded to the slate or is there actual separation/cracking?If it is a crack it is unacceptable. If it is just a white streak in the slate it is arguable though it should have been discussed prior to cutting the slab.The hole to relieve stress isn't necessary unless it is an actual crack, so if it is just a vein and not a crack then it too is unacceptable.How does the client feel about it?If I did the job I would be anticipating the client rejecting it.Karl
It appears to be a streak of white quartz firmly bonded. It's the only one like it, wide and shiny, so it stands out.
Homeowner selected the slabs, at least I believe these are the slabs she picked out.
She just wants us out of there, enough that I think she would be willing to live with it to have her kitchen back. Then she can be annoyed at us forever. No-win situation here.
She just wants us out of there, enough that I think she would be willing to live with it to have her kitchen back. Then she can be annoyed at us forever. No-win situation here.
Sounds like most of our clients..............
Yup, can't wait for us to start, then can't wait for us to leave.
Actually they are super nice folks, but with the holidays coming and the kids coming home she wants her house put back together. Understandable.
Was that "vein" on the slab when it was selected? Or did it naturally form during the installation (being sarcastic).
The vendor suggesting it's a vein is a good justification to get in the habit of taking some digital photos of the slab at time of selection.
Did they tell you this was common practice prior to your order? Did they mention that slate may crack and this was a risk and that stop drilling was the way they would fix it if it occured?
They did not. I've had dozens of stone counters installed but this was my first in slate. I didn't know if this was standard practice elsewhere.
If this in fact was a "common practice" for them, then the possibility should have been brought to your attention at the time the order was placed. Surely they have had issues with this before if they just sprung it on customers. Seems like a very poor practice. I can't imagine any customer agreeing to this with no warning that it may be an issue.
I would fight for a new counter.
Hell no.
Check contract and make sure that they won't have any claim to not replace it based on substrate.
Only compromise outside of replacing it that I might consider is; cutting the crack out all the way front to back, squared up. Than at a parallel, symmetrical location further down the counter matching the same cut again. Than fill the cut strips with a different slate or epoxy depending on width so it might, might, look like an "architectural" feature.
Have seen some products recently that can be used to make the appearance of marble/granite/slate on any counter top that really look good but if that was what you wanted than you would have gotten it in the first place.
I know it wouldn't have flown on the very big soapstone top job I did years ago....
Don't know about slate, but my gut says no way.
Oops, took a second look. Crack runs at a diagonal so my "fix" wouldn't really work unless you went with some other sort of inset on that corner. Maybe have them pay to make that outside corner a raised section as a "prep area" or something.
Bottom line don't pay the bill.
I'd rather get what we paid for. The kitchen has pretty clean lines--the poor workmanship is already drawing more attention than I would like.
Unfortunately homeowner OK'd the installation and installer got paid in full before this little "extra" was noticed. We're considering stopping payment on the check but it may be too late.
If the client selcted the slab and ok'd it it is their descision. I would have a talk with them and maybe sign off on it.
I certainly wouldn't have excepted that.
Based on contract does the homeowner have the authority to directly approve anything from the subs? Of course the homeowner makes all the end decisions but was the slate guy contracted by her or you? Regardless of any perceived authority of the owner by any sub.
On large commercial jobs you'll get this allot with the owner walking a job in progress getting workmen to make changes without an AFO issued through the GC. Guess who pays any extra cost- not the GC and not the Owner, your slate guy. Because there is no paper work.
You'll see it to the opposite extreme too where a change hasn't made it to print yet and the owner tries to halt or change work in the field to what will result in cost savings to all parties. However without that paper the sub must continue his contract work despite what will make sense in the end to protect their liability.
Current job - We had a 4 story hospital addition entirely enclosed, roofed, roof top mechanical inplace and cranes gone off site before the owner decided to put on the 5th floor. For several months it was the buzz on the job that it was going to happen but all subs had to continue per contract documents. In the event it didn't happen we all would have eaten the performance bond and delay claims.
I wasn't on site, and it sounds like our foreman did not look very closely. The installer asked the HO if it looked ok, she said yes, he took the check from the foreman and left.
Slate guy was contracted by us. Slab was approved by HO.
hmmm, sorry your screwed.
-1-year warranty claim maybe.
-Exaggerated threat something like "Ya know it happens I've got a builders association meeting tonight and our membership represents 95% of housing starts in the mid-state area and 75% of all remodel. Some how I have this feeling that (insert slate co. name) is gonna end up on the meeting minutes in some way."
-There has to be a catch some where between the HO "approving" it and the foreman issuing the check. For instance;
Slate guy -"So lady what'da think"
(toolbox not menchened, sitting over crack)
HO- "looks Great"
Slate guy later to Forman- "Well the lady said it looked great, so the total is..."
Forman -"If she said ok than here you go."
It should only cost $20 to cancel a check and that's the first step. He cashes it and you've lost all negotiation possibilities as far as he's concerned.
I'd squarely ask the HO, look I know you want us out of here but are you really ok with that. Not just ok to get us out of here ok, but to have a dinner party or guest always have to see that thing. I'd like to take pride in my craft and I can't do that leaving that there. I'm willing to go to bat for you but need your help in exacting the conversation that took place with the slate guy. Here are some other options, knowing how long it's taken to get the top in the 1st place and you don't want any further delay. Than with your help determine the whole conversation and our recourse. Demand the slate guy use of a different supplier and to find them now with instock slate at his cost. Replace cracked section that'll create a design element. If she requires a temp. counter top, do it and charge the slate guy.
Did the Slate guy have a delivery date on anything? That could be your ticket for demands on the slate guy.
Just because you paid the bill to a mecaninic dosen't mean acceptance that he's done when the drain plug is left out and the motor blows.
I just talked to the owner of the slate company. It's not your usual stone company; they mine their own stuff. He asked if we would let the installer have another chance to fix what's there, and if he can't to our satisfaction, he'll replace the stone.
That's the way business should be.
Glad to hear that.
Mike,
Was it John Tatko from Monson ?
Hi Walter, yes it was John. I was going to thank you for the contact once everything settled out. His installer Corey is coming down tomorrow to see if he can blend the hole in better.
Mike,
Alex is fabricating my exterior railing parts now. I also need to thank you for the lead.
Walter
No problemo.
We just sent Alex a bunch of casing to mill for us.
If you're ever down that way you have to check out his shop, it's like Disneyland for tool freaks.
I'll be picking up the stock when it's ready and hopefully take him to lunch and shoot a few male cows
Update, the owners and my boss said don't bother to send the installer down to blend it in, they won't accept it. Didn't seem fair to me but I'm in the middle. John looked harder and found enough material of the same color to re-do the counter, but the seam location won't be in as good a spot.
The alternative was re-doing it the same way it is now, in a lighter color stone. He sent a sample down, it was very pretty, but the owners decided to keep the color the same as the other counters and to go with the seam in a different location. If we're lucky it might be done and changed out before Thanksgiving.
You didn't put in a good word for me over there did you, Walter? It was shortly after you asked if it was John that he called with the new material. Very nice guy, crappy situation, but he's fixing it as best he can.
Mike,
No I didn't intervene , but I know he's a good guy.
Sounds like he's trying to make it right.
Walter
Wake up, Mike... you've dozed off and are dreaming!
;)
jt8
The creative individual has the capacity to free himself from the web of social pressures in which the rest of us are caught. He is capable of questioning the assumptions that the rest of us accept. -- John Gardner
Hard to ask for a much better resolution than that Mike.
Businesses like that are hard to come by these days.
Good luck.The best reward for a job well done is the opportunity to do another.
I'm betting he's gonna cut that hole a little irregular and try a different shade of epoxy filler.
I would'nt accept it either way. if the fabricator though the slab was cracked ( actually they call that a fissure) enough to take a precaution the let him put THAT piece in his showroom
The fissure is filled with quartz. John (the company owner) said they drill the hole to prevent it from becoming a crack down the road. I understand the physics of it, just don't like it right there where it's extremely visible.
Hey, Mike,
Give them a nice potted plant as a thank you for the job . . . then show them exactly where to place it !
Glad I could help.
Greg
Ha! Good one.
Actually they are being very nice about it all, and we love the material so we will use them again as long as they take care of us on this one. We try to build green and like the idea of locally mined material instead of having it shipped from Brazil.
I'm kinda in the mood to kick some deserving fool's ####.... where can I find him?