Just looking for a couple of opinions: I’m starting a full basement finish next week and we’ve got to lay a subfloor on sleepers on top of the slab so we can lay either pine board flooring or hardwood strip. There’s a machinery space containing the PW pump, the HW tank, and equipment storage in the SW corner; there will be no subfloor there but a step down. Laundry room is on main floor, one level up. Grade on the east side is level with the floor of the basement; there’s a walk-out slider which gives onto a 10′ wide patio pitched 2″/10′ away from the house, then a good 10% grade down towards the woods. The house is four years old and has no history of basement flooding from ground water.
We are installing a full bath with claw-footed tub and the whole nine yards in the middle of the west side. Bath will be full-tile on the subfloor plus up the walls 5′ on two sides, with a sanded glass wall from 4′ up to the ceiling on the other two (and tile below the glass). Waste pipes are already in place in the slab. We’ll be cutting a new pit in the slab for the p-trap for the tub (it’s not being placed exactly where the builder thought it would be), which pit will also let flood water in the bathroom drain under the slab and out through the footing drains. The septic tank is below floor grade so there’s no pumping station and no municipal sewer line to worry about backing up. (We’ll put a one-way flow valve on the waste line anyway just in case.)
The question I’m asking myself is, does this scenario present enough danger of flooding to make it worth while to drill weeps in the sleepers (supposed to be 2×4’s) and use either PT (ugh! yech yech yuck! arghhhg!!) or cedar ($$$ +$$$ +$$$).
Whaddyouseguys tink? Mike? IMERC? Piff? Anybody?
Dinosaur
‘Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Edited 9/18/2003 3:16:54 PM ET by Dinosaur
Replies
Huh, 11 o'clock in the morning and everybody's working. Nice the economy is doing well.
I'll just post a little answer to myself here so it'll go back on the unread messages board, heh, heh, heh.
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
I've been in and out all day... Decided to lay out today. Actually the weather made me do it.
Instead of turning over your monitor lay on your side.... LOL
Sam's idea is great...
Sam I'm gonna use that idea. Where does the check get sent to?
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
jes' put it on my account 'cuz I'm too broke to afford to pay attention.
Samt
Youse Guys....Coupla comics....
Now that I think about it, I wouldn't have drilled them; last time I did that I cursed blue because I hadn't tossed the drill press in the truck and drilling half-round holes is a pain without one, even with Forstners. It's easier to slap the circ over to 45% and run back and forth across a stack of sleepers clamped in a workmate.
No, the question I'm asking me is if there's enough water damage potential with this set up to warrant setting up drainage under the sub-floor. I'd like to say no--because I know who the builder was and I'll betcha a case-o-24 there's no decent pitch to the slab. But I want somebody else to look at it and convince me one way or the other.
Here's a rough sketch of the entire area. Ignore the grid and all the numbers, they're just my calc's for the ceiling and electrical layout.
At A in red, is the cleanout for the waste pipe to the septic tank. At B in red is where the tub drain is and will have to be moved to, so I'll be cutting some concrete there. I'll bet there's no decent slope anyway. The HW tank and PW pump are in the machinery space, which will not get any flooring; just a coat of floor paint direct on concrete. So it'll be 4¾" lower than the rest of the basement. Maybe if I seal it well so no water can escape from that room? I think there's a drain in there. Only got into the house once; can't go back till the HO sends me a key.
Jeez, I really gotta clean the crud outta my mouse, looks like....
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
But I want somebody else to look at it and convince me one way or the other.
Grasshopper, you know the right thing to do, but, I will remind you just one more time since you are so young and cute and you were real good at wax on wax off.
Potential for water damage. . . les'see, lem'me run it true my clickilater. . . flood damage from busted pipes, etc vs 1 hr paid labor = D'OH!
If there is no drain in the equip room extend the WH overpressure drain under the floor to the tub area.
ELCID72
Cost and need. . . 1 sheet($5) + 3min labor () = $8 vs 4 sheet($20) and the drain channels gotta run radially from saw kerfs around perimeter to center drain area. Of course, I'm assuming that he's not going to take the time to caculate the exact center of the cuts and layout and mark each one with a straight edge. I'ld just run my saw to eyeball accuracy.
SamT
Ok, I missed it the first time around. I didn't understand that the channels would run radially to a center drain. I thought that you were providing linear drainage toward the low end of th slab.
Am I not seeing a clear picture, or does it look like Shania's hangers are made of expanded metal grating?
Do it right, or do it twice.
Sequins.
I would never wish to be expanded metal grating.
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
Yeah, but on my monitor it LOOKS like expanded metal. Maybe it's a barrier...Do it right, or do it twice.
By all accounts, it's Shania who's holding up the hangers, and not vice versa. Didncha know she uses Bag Balm on those things...? Another Quality Canadian Product....
Sam and Elcid: I haven't really been following your drainage idea. Here's a clearer plan of the area involved. (Excuse the lack of doors and windows: I've only been running this ACAD program for about an hour so far--I haven't learned how to do windows yet LOL.) (I'm attaching two files: one's a scan; the other's the R14.dwg file if you've got Volo View Express.)
In the machinery space, we're not putting any finish floor. So that room will be a sort of 'well', 4½" below the rest of the basement. The PW pressure tank, and the HW tank are in there. There is, to the best of my memory, a floor drain through the slab right next to the PW inlet pipe from the well. I would hope it goes to the waste lines under the slab; but knowing the builder I won't bet on it till I get a closer look.
There are no other floor drains.
I'll bet ya a case of 24 there's no pitch to the rest of the floor.
We'd have to cut channels all over the slab, install floor drains in each room connected to the waste line, and cover the floor with leveller pitched towards the new drains. Then set sleepers over that with weeps etc., etc.
I should mention the 24' long partition wall dividing the basement in two is a supporting wall--and it was built before the slab was poured. So the sole plate of that wall is sitting on the footing 3" below the slab. (We're going to fill that trough with concrete flush with the slab before closing the wall in any event.) Weirdest thing I've ever seen....
Sam: where were you thinking to place the corrugated roofing?
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
I was thinking that if you poured a concrete slab under the BR area 'cuz you're gonna use tile,then the curved slats from the fiberglass under the new slab would give any water that ever did get under the other floors would have a chance to run out.
Even with no slope, the biggest part of the water would seep out leaving only a thin film.
If you did not use a BR slab, then there is no point to the corrugated material.
SamT
There's already a slab all through the basement. In the new bath, I'm gonna have to cut a trench and new pit to move the drain for the tub to where it'll need to be. The builder probably planned on a stall shower or a tub parallel to the outside wall there, so it would be right next to the toilet. But that only left room for a 5' standard steel tub. We're putting in a 5½' claw-footed acrylic tub instead.
The reason for the subfloor throughout is not the tile in the bath; it's for the strip or board flooring (HO hasn't decided yet) in the family room and the bedroom. But I don't want to leave a step-down into the bath, so I'll just add a half-inch ply on top of the ¾" subfloor in there to bring them level (floor tile is ¼"x1"x1" hex).
Unless his DW bullies him into Pergo....
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
I got ya, Dino, but we we're on different wavelengths, so just ignore all my previous posts.
Samt
Dino, I've been in and out of BT all day and the first time I saw your thread was after you answered yourself..... Prosperoed again.
Drill weepers? heck no. I might set 'em up on a sawhorse and run a kerf across 10 or 12 at a time about 12" OC (very roughly OC)
I would seriously consider outlining the tiled area with sleepers and pouring a pad for the tile using those PT sleepers as lost-in-place forms.
For drainage. get a piece of corrugated fiberglass roofing and rip the little curves off. Turn your monitor on it's side in order to look at my ascii drawing
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A couple o' spots of liquid nail, or what ever (duct tape) you got laying around, to hold em in place and pour right over 'em.
Cheap, quick, and sufficient.
Samt
Nice idea, but why do you have to rip the strips and reassemble? Why not just lay the corrugated in place as one piece? It will give drainage every 4" and there;s no seams to worry about the cement running into. Or am I missing something? You just trying to make more work for the canucks?
Do it right, or do it twice.
I thought this was going to be about a hurricane slumber party.
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
Ya know, every so often I see a discussion title that makes me want to start a discussion about odd titles. This one fits well. Girls' slumber party? Friday the 13th Part xxx? Government workers?
Do it right, or do it twice.
It's called Marketing, dude.
If you want to get the good posters interested, you need a snappy thread title....
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Or mis-leading advertising...Do it right, or do it twice.
Well, at least I didn't post a picture of a nekkid babe to lure you in.
You feelin' deprived? Look below.
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Sometimes I wish I were a sequin.
Yer still rippin us off. That ain't a picture of shania twain at a slumber party.
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
Well she ain't sleeping, but I oughta be....
Say G'night, Dick
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?