Is it just me or are the old Briggs and Stratton engines getting worse and worse. I recently purchased a high pressure spray rig with B and S engine and a paint rig with same horse power Honda engine. The Honda runs smoother and quieter then the B and S and it starts almost instantly every time I give it a pull. The B and S engine sometimes requires 6 to 8 pulls before it starts and once running it will not idle smoothly or it stops all together. At medium to high rpm, the B and S vibrates like mad and sounds like the valves aren’t adjusted properly while the Honda is smooth and sounds solid.
Are we losing another american product to outside / offshore companies who produce better products?
Replies
Well frankly, B&S never made a "quality" product. But likely their relative quality level has fallen over the years as they try to meet the "price point" targets of Wally World, et al. This situation is exacerbated somewhat by the lack of adjustments on the newer engines, due in part to emission rules, in part to cheapness.
The Honda engine, OTOH, is better built that a B&S ever was.
You get what you pay for.
B&S has always been garbage. They are stinky, noisy, ineeficient but they are cheap.
blue
They're actually pretty reliable, too. Not much can stop one other than bad gas or lack of oil.But they always were noisy and vibrated a lot, and they did tend to be hard to start unless tuned a hair rich (not readily done with current emission-limiting designs).
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
I agree, they'll take a lot of abuse and still run.
A little flammable spray does wonders....
blue
I have a three horse briggs on my concrete mixer. I'm convinced that it's impossible to start without starter fluid. You need to hose down the air cleaner, then give it a couple of squirts for ten seconds or sso until it starts to run well. After than, it'll never stall, though. It's funny, though: an entire engine can be (rightfully) written off because the carb's a little out of tune and it's hard to start. You think the engine companies would have put more emphasis on "make sure it starts on the first pull" a long time ago.
were U talkingf arleys there? LOL
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
That battle was lost some time ago.
Honda and Kawasaki have been making the best small motors for many years.
That said, I have a 26 year old snowblower with a Briggs that's running strong and always starts for me.
I'd rather have a Briggs engine over a Tecumseh any day of the week. I've had a lot of machines with Briggs engines, and they are all loud, stinky and reliable. Hard to kill 'em. The small Hondas and Kawasakis are much better in terms of noise and pollution, but I don't know about reliability. I can't say as I've heard any complaints about them though.
Well, Snowmon was talking about having a 26-year-old snowblower with a B&S engine. I have a unit of similar age (maybe a hair older) with a Tecumseh engine. Still starts on the first pull. (In fact, starts better now than when it was new.)
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
The small Honda engines are very reliable. Here in the movie industry, we use a lot of their 5 kW generators. They've been pretty much the only ones around for the last 30 years or so. Downtime costs a whole lot of money, so reliability is the key factor.
-- J.S.
I never considered it a quality engine to begin with - merrely functionaal at the low range of the scale..
AAnd Ithought they were a canadiancompany
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Garage sale ground rules of mine:
Have paid up to $500 for machines powered by 11 HP and up Hondas, will not pay over $5 for any non running BS or Tech. engine powered machine unless running perfectly,
As for old BS engines being reliable, in the 1960s they were already crap, how old are some other respondents? - the BS engines I got in the 50s and 60s were not too good. Do have one old cast iron Crafstsman engine that still runs good, don't know who made it though.
I've put salvaged Datsun and Toyota and a fuel injected Chrysler 2.2L and GM 2.8l engines on machines needing only 5 to 15 hp due to low reliability of BS/Tech engines of the higher HP. S
Some of the Wisconsin engines were OK.
my company willnot buy any small motor equpiment, lik etrash pump, gerators etc. without a Honda. any thing else we walk away. What does that tell you about american vs japanese mfg.
In addition to Honda and Kawasaki, I'm very happy with Onan and Kohler engines I've owned and run the devil out of.
I'm amazed at how so many equipment mfgrs have gone to B & S. Troybilt did well for years with quality engines, but, in they're dying days, opted for BS without lowering price.
IMO, B & S is, and has always been, the Yugo of the small engine world.
In addition to Honda and Kawasaki, I'm very happy with Onan and Kohler engines I've owned and run the devil out
Kind of funny you mentioned Kohler. I bought a JD riding mower 3 years ago with a 23 hp Kohler engine. It starts easily enough (electric) but belches smoke for the first 30 or so seconds. Shut it off without letting it idle for more than a minute and it backfires. A neighbor has one, a year newer than ours, with the same engine and doesn't have any of the issues we have. Local JD dealer has been no help.
I chose the higher hp model because of the Kohler engine, LOL. Now JD has switched to B&S for their new lawn tractors, supposedly because they were getting so many complaints about the Kohlers.
Now my 19 year old Honda walk behind mower and tiller still start every time on the the first pull and run like a scalded dog when ever I call on them.
Dave
PS spell check recognizes Honda as a word, but not Kohler or Onan. What does that mean?
Yugo of the small engine world
Sounds like you don't think much of Yugos. They were just a cheap imitation of a FIAT. <LMAO>PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
woodway,
Most of Honda's small engines are made here in America. As are most of their cars etc.. In fact many Japanese products are made here in America because American labor is harder working and works cheaper than the Japanese. The differance is that the actual japanese stuff needs an expensive ocean voyage to get here. Thus Japaneses manufactures take designs and produce them here in America..
The reason the Japanese products are better is because the market determines the price level and since Japanese management works cheaper and harder than American management they are able to invest more in development. If you spend more in development you always wind up with a superior product..
Look at the two engines. Honda has a simple and efficent overhead valve arrangement while Briggs and Straton still use the old flat head design last used in the 1953 ford flathead. The differance is that part of the power of combustion pushes down on the block while an overhead valve arragement uses all of the power of combustion to push down on the piston.
Bottom line and it's a quasi-political one so be forewarned.. Rich management here in America is very lazy and expensive.. top management earns 200 times what the guy on the floor who produces stuff does while in Japan it's around 8 times.
To justify their salaries American top management does a lot of short term gain stuff which actaully has a detremental effect on America's long term profitablity. For example when they lay off people the short term effect is a rise in profits, the long term effect is a loss of customers..
Top management process is simple.. Buy a company, lay off a large number of people to pay for the acquizition, the resulting increrased profits allow you to acquire more companies and larger companies..
Over all you haven't increased sales or market share but profits for the quarter are up and that's how management is paid.
Want a classic example? Look at the auto industry..
To justify their salaries American top management does a lot of short term gain stuff which actaully has a detremental effect on America's long term profitablity
I can verify that point Frenchy.
My SIL does computer design work for a variety of firms. When he worked for Toyota and Honda, they wouldn't accept design work that was "close enough". Even if it meant scrapping the entire design and re-starting over, they wanted it perfect. He said that all the American car companies would automatically accept the flawed designs because "they could make it work".
blue
Some of the seating arrangements I saw in Japan in 1988 are just now starting to show up in both the new Japanese and American made mini vans. Fold down seats and seats that rotate to the side were standard fare in Japan back then.
Every seen a Japanes construction site? That is where we shine. We use more equipment by far than they do, and accomplish more work with fewer people on site. Where we use a skid steer, I watched 1/2 dozen labors do the same task with wheel barrels and shovels. Funny thing was that the older workers where the one doing most of the hard physical stuff, or maybe they just looked old because of the hard labor.
Maybe things have changed since I was last there. Sure would love to go back for an extended visit.
Dave
Dave Richeson,
There is a major differance in Japanese construction workers and American construction workers.. A significant portion of Japanese construction workers are Korean or Phillipino while management is always Japanese.. They tend to be very big on top down orders while American construction tends to be a little more worker up.. Input from workers is not only accepted in America it's encouraged (usually)
In Japan it's considered to be socially poor form to work construction, thus only the lowest and poorest performing temporary workers are found on construction sites.
Here in America it's often choosen as a career path due to higher pay and somewhat greater freedom (at least compared to a factory floor) Middle management often comes from the well performing workers here in America while in Japan it almost never comes from the actual workers..
A significant portion of the actual work day in Japan is deciding just who should do what task, how it should be done and to what standards.. While here In America there tends to be a, you guys put up the scaffolding and then start to lay bricks kinda approach..