Found out while searching insulmesh…
Thought I’d resurrect it.
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Conservation/MooneyWall/MooneyWall.htm
Liberty = Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.
American Heritage Dictionary
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dang, time for an award.
gotta be thinkin' now.
Peach full,
easy feelin'.
Quick question or two, I live in a 10-12K degree heat area, south central AK. I noticed they don't have a vapor barrier, is that applied over the insul-mesh prior to sheetrock?
If I were to use this method could I use exterior metal let in bracing and cover with 2" of blue board on 2x6 on 24 framing? I am sure that I will have to get either a building inspector or archy to approve the design.
Has any one out there attempted that type of wall construction? Looking to build the most cost efficient super insulated wall for this climate.
Thanks
Jim
The cross-hatch wall is a simple system which is particularly well suited to retrofits of existing thin wall houses.
For another, truly superinsulated and cost-effective option which would be well suited for your extreme climate, check out my modified Larsen Truss wall system: http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/SolarHomes/LarsenTruss/LarsenTruss.htm
Riversong HouseWright
Design * * Build * * Renovate * * ConsultSolar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
I seem to recall that Mike Smith attributed Mooney as having described that type of construction and Mike christened it the "Mooney Wall". I haven't chased down the original thread, but I am guessing it was somewhere in the 2002 time frame. I don't recall either of them claiming to have invented this construction technique but Mike Smith certainly popularized it on Breaktime. I would guess that it has been "invented" more than once by various tradesmen. The term "cross-hatch wall" doesn't seem very popular; however. I did a Google search on the term and none of the urls in the first 5 pages mentioned this style of building construction. Many of them referred to the pattern left when honing engine cylinder walls. Any other names for this building style?
Just when did Smith and Mooney claim to "invent" this wall system?
It's called the cross-hatch wall, and has been around for at least 35 years.
Solar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
Uhhhh....
I don't know if they claim(ed) to invent the system.
"Mooney Wall" ia a Breaktime designation.Liberty = Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.
American Heritage Dictionary
The "Mooney wall" is the The brainchild of Mike Smith and Tim Mooney.
That's what your link says. Sounds like they think they invented it. Perhaps one of them would like to comment?
Riversong HouseWright
Design * * Build * * Renovate * * ConsultSolar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
Perhaps...
or they REinvented the technique from the ashes of neglect. Two minds, just searching for an answer... and finding a good one. Elmers glue is probably new to the recipe.
All beer is pretty much the same as it was thousands of years ago. It gets "reinvented" all the time.
They're still published, though.
Pics and all.
Congrats to them... again.
Hope you can find it in you to do the same.Liberty = Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.
American Heritage Dictionary
"The "Mooney wall" is the The brainchild of Mike Smith and Tim Mooney.
That's what your link says. Sounds like they think they invented it. Perhaps one of them would like to comment?"
I know I'd like to comment!
Your take on the article is astounding.
The only authorship I saw attached to the article was the name "Gary" at the bottom. Now you want them to answer about what someone else said?
Tim and Mike took a technique, used it, talked about it, improved it, then used it some more.
All the while letting the rest of us benefit from their effort, good sense, and hard work. Pictures, step by step descriptions, and discussions back and forth.
And Mike, in his good nature, dubs it "The Mooney Wall", after his friend and collaborator. ( what an ego he's got, eh? )
They generously put it out there for all to see, talk about, maybe improve.
And YOU wish to ascribe some sort of plagiarism on their part?
And your contribution is a petulant comment about something NEITHER OF THEM EVER CLAIMED!
pete
Edit - Forgot to say, thanks Mike and Tim...
Edited 3/13/2008 11:05 pm ET by BUIC
And your contribution is a petulant comment about something NEITHER OF THEM EVER CLAIMED!
That's interesting how you can read "petulant" into simple text with no inflection or body language.
Your text, however, given your deliberate use of CAPITALIZATION clearly has some emotional content. Perhaps you were feeling a bit petulant.
The fact is that everyone on this forum refers to this wall system as the Moonie Wall, and this thread was about the publication of Moonie's wall. This reflects a profound ingorance of the long history of such an obvious solution to a more thermally efficient frame.
There are many variations of the cross-hatch wall (I used one very much like Moonie's in an urban rehab in 1983) and it was listed as one of ten superinsulated wall systems in Don Booth's 1983 book Sun/Earth Buffering and Superinsulation (though that used 2x4s on edge cross-hatched to 2x4 vertical studs for a 7" wall).
I developed what I believe to be a unique superinsulation wall system, but I didn't have the audacity to name it after myself (or the architect friend who helped). Instead, I simply call it a modifed form of the Larsen Truss wall, giving credit to the originator of the technique.
Do you really think Larson was the first guy ever (non-emotional emphasis) to use a truss sort of setup to get more insulation into his walls? Was Kleenex the first company to invent something to blow your nose on? While it might make sense that the inventor of a system got the credit, in our world it's usually the marketers of a system that decide what to call it. Smith is marketing it; why not call it the Smith wall?
I propose a happy solution for everyone. Let's call it the Mooney Cross-Hatch Wall. Descriptive, but with its own brand name. That'll give it the best change at widespread acceptance.
I love the pointless energy and arguments that Riversong seems to create.. We are all here to better hone are skills and discuss technique, yet it often gets so testy.
Enjoying from the cheap seats
Dustin
Sometimes I find it annoying, but mostly I think he's helping raise us to a higher level of discourse, and he unquestionable presents a lot of great information. He's not making any friends, other than those who respect his opinion, but he's professed multiple times that he's not here to make friends.
My dad's an engineer. I know the type. I can deal with the type. ;-)
Do you really think Larson was the first guy ever (non-emotional emphasis) to use a truss sort of setup to get more insulation into his walls?
If you mean to use a light-weight parallel-cord truss to retrofit existing houses into superinsulated buildings - the answer is yes.
Since I've studied and been involved in superinsulated construction for more than 25 years, I'm pretty familiar with the techniques as they evolved.
Riversong HouseWright
Design * * Build * * Renovate * * ConsultSolar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
Nope.It's a Mooney wall. All that cross-hatch stuff is just added on to confuse people. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
But can you see yourself. How you are reading plagiarism, emotional content (those caps. were done for emphasis), and profound ignorance into a simple text where none exists.
If I were to read into your reply I would note the tone of condescension, some imagined superiority, all ending with some disingenuous humility.
But I wouldn't do that...buic
But can you see yourself. How you are reading plagiarism, emotional content (those caps. were done for emphasis), and profound ignorance into a simple text where none exists.
The ignorance about this technique having ever been used before has been acknowledged on this forum. Nothing to "read into" there. And I never suggested this was an act of "plagiarism".
If I were to read into your reply I would note the tone of condescension, some imagined superiority, all ending with some disingenuous humility.
But I wouldn't do that...buic
It's fascinating how a number of people here just can't help but project their own failings onto others. Since there is, nor has ever been, any such "tone" in my words, your responses are clearly coming from your own interpretations.
You could at least have the decency to own your own stuff.
"'The ignorance about this technique having ever been used before has been acknowledged on this forum."" SO are you going to post some links that show the exact system being used before or not? Which technique are you referring to BTW? Strapping? Dense-pack? Dense-pack with Insul-mesh? http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4712347.html
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
View Image
Yep! And I guess when you cannot find and post facts to back up your posts you hide as well. 35 years ago densepack cellulose insulation didn't even exist as near as I can determine , and from the patent searches I did neither did the insul mesh. So just what was it you were talking about that has been around for at least 35 years because it certainly isn't the system called the "Mooney Wall". I would be more than happy to have you back up your statement and post something that proves my short research wrong about that. This is your post isn't it?From: Riversong Mar-13 12:43 pm
To: Hackinatit (4 of 48)
102155.4 in reply to 102155.1 Just when did Smith and Mooney claim to "invent" this wall system?It's called the cross-hatch wall, and has been around for at least 35 years.
Riversong HouseWright
Design * * Build * * Renovate * * Consult
Solar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
Options Reply
Edited 3/14/2008 1:43 pm by dovetail97128
SO are you going to post some links that show the exact system being used before or not?
Since there was no internet 35 years ago, there aren't "links" other than the references I already posted.
Which technique are you referring to BTW?
As Mooney explained, this wall system went through many iterations. The primary element in the evolution of the system is the cross-hatching.
Just as my modified Larsen Truss wall system is the frame and not the particular choice of insulation material or method, I'm refering to the Mooney wall in the same manner.
But, since you're only trying to "get my goat" rather than having a reasonable conversation, I suspect you're not going to be satisfied with any answer I offer.
Sorry, no retraction is in order, polite or otherwise.
Riversong HouseWright
Design * * Build * * Renovate * * ConsultSolar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
""But, since you're only trying to "get my goat" rather than having a reasonable conversation, I suspect you're not going to be satisfied with any answer I offer."" You are entitled to think whatever you wish, the fact that they are your thoughts do not make them correct however. I am not trying to get your goat, I was asking you to back up your statement.Sorry, no retraction is in order, polite or otherwise. As expected.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Hey, let's get Pete, seeyou and Bucky in here and see if we can get this thread closed too.
be snorking along as nightfall ends the daySweet scented breezes, whisper on the wayUnder the stars we slowly stroll along,While distant hill re-echo with our song, HEY!
Stodala,stodala,stodala pumpaStodala pumpa, stodala pumpaStodala, stodala, stodala pumpaStodala pumpa, pum pa pa.
Edited 3/14/2008 3:00 pm ET by rez
Your poem is diving me nuts. so tell me is that
Bilbo Baginns ?
Edited 3/14/2008 4:41 pm ET by Henley
The stodapumpa thing is from an old polish/czech polka. I first recall hearing it as a kid travelling to Canada ever so often for someone's polish wedding with a live accordian band
where the floor would vibrate with peoples stomping and you'd be sitting at a table with yer feet and toes all curled up hoping they wouldn't get stomped on by the swirling dancers as they whirled by.
As something like a 10 year old I also recall heading down to the bar at one wedding in search of a ginger ale and telling the bartender I wanted an ale. Being cool I thought to eliminate the word ginger.
He said 'what do you mean, an ale?'
I said 'an ale, you know, a bottle of ale.'
Uncapping a bottle he says 'here kid have a pop'.
The first tune I can't remember except from hearing it in my memory.
Peach full,easy feelin'.
Now I remember. I should have known, being of Polishness myself.
Just remember in heaven there is no beer, that's why we drink it here.
And when we're gone from here, our friends will be drinking all the beer. HEY
be dang, my indigestion
Peach full,easy feelin'.
remember in heaven there is no beer, that's why we drink it here
Which sounds much stranger locally when rendered as "Im Himmel der gibt es keine Pivo . . . " (Locally the Czech make distinctions between Molravians, Bohemians, and the like--makes for a confusing argot at times.)Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
get Pete, seeyou and Bucky in here and see
Might as well get Frenchy & Dino <G>Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Hey, let's get Pete, seeyou and Bucky in here and see if we can get this thread closed too.
I invented the Mooney Wall, the Larson Wall, and the Wankle Rotary engine.http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
You wanker, you forgot the Great Wall.
You wanker, you forgot the Great Wall.
I thought Smith & Mooney invented that.http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
no... not INVENTED it.. i saw it from outer space on the first earth orbit
i invented the Atlas Rocket that launched usMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
in their late 20's.
These guys made a wall? Which one's Smith?
View Image'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
The one in the dress.http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
Yeah, apparently the wave hasn't caught on as an international phenomenon.You rooting for Kentucky tonight?'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
Catlanta, baby.http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
Thank goodness "wallgate" has been sorted out......The question I have is, did seeyou invent chalk or caulk? ThanksJim
The awful thing is that beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the devil are fighting there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.- Fyodor Dostoyevski
More imporant stuff , geez!
Are you watching Kentucky? Im TiVoing it .
Arkansas beat vandy! hahaha.
Tim
Are you watching Kentucky? Im TiVoing it .
Arkansas beat vandy!
Yeah, I saw it. I missed the Hawgs yesterday. Don't want to spoil it for you, so I won't discuss the GA/KY game. When do you guys play again since the schedule is whacked?http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
We play at 5 today.
I dont expect we will play again simce were playin Tn.
Be the end of the road .
No one thought we would beat Vandy. I didnt either but I forced myswelf to watch it .
I just saw the end of the Kentucky game . They had opportunity to win it . Too many freshmen. Next year they will be dangeruous. Looked like they ran out of gas too. He needed more players to contribute from the bench. I guess he didnt have them. He sure can coach though. Sounded like he had lost his voice .
Im ready for our Tn thrasin. Bring it on , lol.
Ill still watch the rest of the tourney. I like it .
Tim
Yup.
And every automobile manufacturer should be badging their vehicles as "Benz" or "Modified Benz" instead of the Ford, Toyota, and Volvo names we see today. Bad analogy, I know, but the point is...
I see your point but you're tilting at the proverbial windmill. No one has filed a patent, no one is collecting residuals. Hell, the house I grew up in was built in 1951 using the cross-hatch system with fiberglass insulation. Well before your 35 year ago timeline.
Let's move on.
Mongo
Edit: Oops. Should have been addressed to Riversong instead of sarison.
Edited 3/16/2008 12:00 pm ET by Mongo
Im ready for our Tn thrasin. Bring it on , lol.
Hope you didn't bet on that. I knew the Hawgs were gonna be there at the end 10 mins into that game. They played 'em the same way we did twice. TN's good, but they're not a #1 team. Not downplaying Arkansas' victory at all, but the Vols have been over rated. They've got chinks in their armor and you guys found 'em.
I bet you were doing the "Mooney Dance" at the end of that game. What time's the final? I'll be watching for sure.http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
Hog fans dont have to win championships to be happy. They are happy if the opposing teams will remember who they played when they play us . Hogs are supposed to play all out win or loose to make Arkansas happy. If we give Georgia all they can handle of a dog fight , Arkansas will be happy.
Pelfry on the other hand has to win or hes not happy. Thats been aired on the media quite a bit . They say he got it from Kentucky and their intense fan state to win . They dont think Billy likes the pressure they put on him. Rumors are hes looking for another job because of it . Arkansas still thinks Pelfry is going to Kentucky.
Any thoughts ?
Arkansas still thinks Pelfry is going to Kentucky.
Any thoughts ?
I'm liking Gillespie a little better every day (except yesterday, maybe). He's managed to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, but ever since Pitino came, KY fans want to see run and gun, shoot lots of threes, full court press ball. You can't run that hard when you've got 2 of your best players injured. I hated Gillespie at first, but now I'd like to see what he can do after a couple of years.
If Pelphrey's filling the stadium up and getting you guys on ESPN & CBS regularly, they'll find the money for him. I think he's smart enough to stay away from here for a few years 'til he's more confident and experienced. KY fans will turn on him in a minute if he doesn't get them into the NCAA tournament.
Now, he might be a candidate for AD here in a few years, but I'd be shocked at him taking a coaching job.http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
"I'm liking Gillespie a little better every day (except yesterday, maybe). He's managed to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, but ever since Pitino came, KY fans want to see run and gun, shoot lots of threes, full court press ball. "
Am I wrong in thinking that usually doesnt go together?
Im no authority. Most of the teams I watch I could put them into category. If they run and gun , they are a driving team in the paint that plays man to man defense too. Ball steals, fast breaks , etc.
Teams that shoot threes well seem to have organized off and def sets. They are typically finese teams that play smart . They have disipline to do what they are allowed to do. Sutton was like that when he coached here . Mostly half court stuff calling plays every trip down the court . Make a mistake and they nail you with a three.
I heard that Billy told his players to drive into paint first and to pass . If it wasnt there then take a three . It sounds good but its two different mind sets to me .
The hog alumini are in love with Pelfry. Hes boosted attendence 40 percent this year over last . Still seats open for improvement but hes selling out the big home games . Non conference cupkakes we call them , no. They are working on a tougher home schedule . They want to raise ticket prices but cant till they fill it up first. Pelfry deserves his cut .
They are doing it in football. They paid the new football coach more than the whole coaching staff made last year . So far he is doing what he was expected to do landing a record recruiting class for us in just a little over 30 days after leaving the Atlanta Falcons . He has formulated a quaterback stable of 6. We will be doing it in the air this year. He also has a bunch of wide recievers hes brought in. They raised ticket prices from 35 to 45 just from expectations. Everyone wants to see it next year.
I think its all about money as I said earliar. They better not forget Pelfrys part in it or become greedy and not pay him what hes worth. Someone will.
" KY fans will turn on him in a minute if he doesn't get them into the NCAA tournament."
I think we are getting close to that in football.
Tim
Did you also invent this one?
Wow.
I think they said 3pm today.
I had my Nef over yesterday to watch our azzz whuppin by the hands of TN . I dont know what time I said it but later than you thought it . I told him before half TN might be in trouble because we were playing 9 deep and all out. I thought about the drains of playing every day might get to them , but they were a lot better team and I was right . I dont know what you saw , but they are quite a bit better team than we are . TN just came to a dog fight instead of a basketball game . Thats how they did it . We only have one shooter . We are terrible shooting the ball and offense in general. Best defense in the sec right now . We win when they play all out 9 deep. They were only doing that at home before this tournamant . Never did they play all out on the road.
Pelfry did somthing else yesterday he had only done one time before that and won him a game too. He played both centers at once for a few minutes and stopped their shooting in the paint . We went on a 7 to 1 run and caught back up to go ahead by one . They almost fouled out doing it and Im sure thats why he backed off it . That was also a key to the game becuase TN went back to shooting threes and we made most of the offesnsive rebounds as usual. They were hitting them though really well but we scored off the ones they missed and we got 2 and three shots on the offensive boards. Their shooting was much better than ours and we owned the boards . I cant count the times the hogs stole the ball under the basket .
I credit John Pelfry with all of it . Its the same team we had last year and they were a lazy bunch and played like that when he got here .They didnt play smart ball at all. Stupid ball in fact and Pelfry was pulling his hair over it . Pelfry wont be the coach here very long unless we turn loose of some serious money. Hes so close to Richardson and the 40 minutes of he^ll its scary. Luckily for him he inherited a team with speed and quickness but they still cant shoot . If he ever gets a team thats that fast and can shoot he will be there .
You remember I told you he ran them till 3 in the morning after a game . The fans on the web sites were mouthing them as the lazyest team in AR history . The radio shows here were saying the same thing . Gettum outa here and let the recruits play. Thats what Arkansas was singing every day. Credit Pelfry, hes done one h^ll of a job and his coaching got them in the final game . He will be God around here if we win or loose the final game .
Tim
Edited 3/16/2008 10:02 am by Mooney
I'm surprised you didn't just say "I invented walls".
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
And why did they close that, it was just a friendly little chat between 2 little guys and a big guy.
As expected.
Thanks for proving my point.
It's 71.2° outside (for me, at least), but we're all acting like it's the middle of January and someone just asked a question about roof ventilation.Come on people, let's enjoy spring and all the various wall types out there.Just stay away from fiberglass insulation <g>
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
yeah... as Roosevelt Colvin is want to say....
"Calm down , people"
how's things on the Northern Neck... youse guys must be well into early
Spring..... still waiting for the Shad Blow to bloom here... the Flowering Pear is ready to burstMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Yeah, I'd say spring has "sprung". Went to a birthday party for my niece today and wore shorts.BTW- we're technically not a part of the Northern Neck. King George (the city, not the county, although there isn't much to the county other than the city) calls themselves the "gateway to the Northern Neck". KG is about 15 miles further down the Rappahannock and Rt. 3 from Fredericksburg.BTW2- since we're talking about VA and you brought up nuke power, Dominion Power got approval from the NRC to add a third reactor to the plant at Lake Anna. I don't know if this qualifies as a new plant or not. I'm with you about nuclear power vs. coal.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
?
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
The tone is there. You need to take an honest look inward as you do outward...buic
>> The fact is that everyone on this forum refers to this wall system as the Moonie Wall, and this thread was about the publication of Moonie's wall. This reflects a profound ingorance of the long history of such an obvious solution to a more thermally efficient frame. <<
It's spelled Mooney Wall
not, Moonie Wall.
Sheesh! Can't you get anything right?
...be having fun with the bold keys...
"He said "Buck up baby, it's okay. The sunlight on the floor will always fall." ~ Sarah Harmer
It's spelled Mooney Wall not, Moonie Wall.
My apologies.
Now that must have been my own projection. I must have been thinking of this as some kind of cult.
But I'll operate on the assumption that there's no connection to Rev. Sun Myung Moon.
>>
My apologies.
Now that must have been my own projection. I must have been thinking of this as some kind of cult. <<
It IS a cult. Get with program and drink this c(_). lol
"He said "Buck up baby, it's okay. The sunlight on the floor will always fall." ~ Sarah Harmer
not, Moonie Wall.
Dunno, that might be a wall to super-insulate a person from Korean cultists . . .
Anybody know the R vale of concertina-ed razor wire? Ilex japonica trained into chain-link on curved standards? If the dog run is light-colored water-washed aggregate, do I cipher it as a storage mass, or as a reflector surface . . . ?<G>Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
As Mike stated he was discussing how he did his walls with foam and 1xs in a dicussion on here .
I buy random length 2bys and make trusses . [or did at the time ]
I was just thinking how I would always be thinking of using up scrap but how much cheaper a 2x4 is for me than a 1x2.
I dont know who mentioned it but a 2x2 will hold strength wise on 16 inch centers which makes it even steven with a 1x4 anyway board feet wise. A 1x2 is enough to screw to but not to nail. It is enough however to hold the weight . Just a little inconvient for me .
I had done the wall with 1 1/2 foam in chicken houses and it worked nicely holding in its shelf so to speak. We bought 2x12 ft x1.5 foam for them. Posts were set 4 feet apart with 2x4s running the length of the building . It was very quick and nice to have the 2x4s face to nail siding to for inexperienced people making minimum wage.
So I just suggested 2 bys to Mike and he really did the rest . I have done it since then with wet foam and its better than no cross bracing thus holding it in .
Mike is the one who developed such a superior method and deserves 'all" the credit . I dont have a clue why he included me in the name . Its his wall in my opinion.
Anyway , thats how it got started . Ive never ever took any credit for it and dont want any. Its a long ways from the primitive way I did chicken house walls for the better and much much better than wet foam. However wet foam is less expensive and works in a dry hot climate . Im certain wet foam would be a mess where he lives. It works here but is not even close to being as nice as Mikes method.
I think several have used it on here since . I think Mike does it all the time . Im not building so I dont of course . I think Mikes advantage is having a blower although hes never mentioned it . Makes sense to me though to use his strong points . I do.
Other than all that its a quiet wall since sound telegraphs through stud members. I did it on a busy street and could not get over the difference after it was done working inside . That was talked about at length too. That wasnt my thought either but I used it because of the discussion. Thats what we do here is share . It was the perfect choice that came at the perfect time after the discussion . I learned it here .
Tim
Thanks for sharing the story. It's always interesting how our techniques evolve from trial and error and learning from each other.
I've found, too, that we often stumble on a good thing by trying to solve a different problem.
Riversong HouseWright
Design * * Build * * Renovate * * ConsultSolar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
"I developed what I believe to be a unique superinsulation wall system, but I didn't have the audacity to name it after myself (or the architect friend who helped). Instead, I simply call it a modifed form of the Larsen Truss wall, giving credit to the originator of the technique."That just shows that you lack marketing flair. That's okay though. There are lots of inventors that never make money because they don't understand the psychology behind creating a buzz about something. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
About time for "redeyedfly" to chime in don't you think?The best reward for a job well done is the opportunity to do another.
LOL! Is he still around? Usually guys like that burn out quick or get booted. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I'm seeing shades of w/ this OP.The best reward for a job well done is the opportunity to do another.
That just shows that you lack marketing flair.
How people make assumptions!
It's not that I lack "marketing flair" - I was the media coordinator for the Clamshell Alliance back in '78 and helped turn a regional anti-nuclear power campaign into a national (and international) movement - it's that I have no interest in "marketing" myself.
You see, I'm not a commodity. My work comes from my reputation and word of mouth. That's how I want it.
Riversong HouseWright
Design * * Build * * Renovate * * ConsultSolar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
Edited 3/15/2008 9:56 pm ET by Riversong
dat's funny !
'course juxtaposing "The China Syndrome" & Three -Mile Island had nuttin to do with that , now did they ?
oh.... and BTW....
the only thing that will save this planet is nuclear energy....
so .. i'll see your Clam Shell Alliance and raise you 1000 coal generating plants since they stopped building nuke plants in the US
can we speel "unintended consequences " buoys & gulls ?
hah, hah, hah... yur a cardMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
'course juxtaposing "The China Syndrome" & Three -Mile Island had nuttin to do with that , now did they ?
Both happened on my watch. Who do you think put the Hershey's chocolate into the cooling lines at 3 Mile Island?
"it's that I have no interest in "marketing" myself."Yes, that's what I said. You have no marketing flair. Instead of giving your invention a catchy name, you mentioned some techical sounding thing that has already escaped my memory. On the other hand, the Mooney wall is memorable because it's a one word name and it reminds me of something. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
""I was the media coordinator for the Clamshell Alliance back in '78 and helped turn a regional anti-nuclear power campaign into a national sensation"" Well that explains your affinity for putting "spin" on issues. "Toward Tomorrow Fair" anyone? Ah the good old days.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Seriously, you've got to mean the Clamzo Alliance.
Oh poor old Reuben Clamzo Clamzo boys Clamzo
Oh poor old Reuben Clamzo Clamzo me boys Clamzo
heh heh
BUIC said petulant.
Peach full,easy feelin'.
Did I say that out loud?
I was considering ICF but with the costs involved it makes a "Larson Truss" or "Mooney Wall" both look good. I attended a 4 hour lecture this last weekend on Retrofit of residential homes for a cold climate and came away with some good building ideas. I wish to build a super insulated home at (of course) the best cost possible. The methods that you use seem to be vary workable. Until I get closer to breaking ground I will continue to explore the various methods and see what is available locally at that time.
Thanks again Riversong for your site. If you put out a DVD of the seminars and construction details I would like to be on the mailing list for that.
Jim
'cmon RS, lighten up a bit.
Al Gore invented the internet AND global warming![email protected]
the mooney wall is definitely a breaktime brainchild, it could have been independently invented, i remember reading the threads as it came about.
my younger brother independently invented street luge in the mid 70's, he called it butt boarding, and we had never seen it before anywhere else.
i have gone on record before as claiming to know how artificial intelligence will come about, and have posted about it in this forum, which I will point to in the future when as vice president running for pres I claim to have invented it.
We celebrate anyone who offers up great training threads. Mike deserves many kudos for his efforts and gifts that he's shared here and the Mooney wall is just one of them. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
You of course can provide back up links to substantiate that statement. Identical system using all the same components and using all the same methodology.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
well.... robert is right in this respect... there ain't nothing new under the sun, nu?
i remember in the early '70's , we were going to build a solar home
and we found out they had solar hot water collectors in florida in the '20's
and that guy in Maryland ( Thomason ) had solar homes with free flowing ( sheet ) water
gosh.....
and that's just the US... a lot of this stuff has been done in one form or another someplace else & some other time.. like galileo maybe
but still... couldn't think of a nicer guy to name the thing after than Mooney.. kind of an insider's jokeMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike, All true. I have books here that describe energy efficient techniques that are millenniums old. Solar was very , very popular in the twenties, both here and overseas.
Earth bermed, and underground dwellings aren't new.
Solar mass isn't new. When I was about 8 my dad strapped rafters in the house I grew up in so he could stretch foil across the rafters to increase the insulation value and I doubt he invented the idea. I am 60 so the strapping technique is older than 35 yrs. My point is that few are identical systems however. The Mooney Wall is what it is because of the components being assembled in a certain way and the materials being used. Strapping a wall can be done to accommodate reflective insulation but that does not make it a Mooney Wall. My other point obviously is that river was just being river is all, but if he is going to make a claim let him back it up with documentation, he seems to demand others do so .
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Someone told me to google my name a few days ago. I found it then.
Tim
You really have a bug in your butt, dontcha?
The Riversong Wall would sound better I bet.
Take a shower and cool off........
Joe H
I think it should be called the Riversong Wall. It is a good system, and it has a ring. Whadaya think? Contender to the crowd favorite, the Moony Wall?
Contender to the crowd favorite, the Moony Wall?
Sure, why not.
Mind you, I'm still in the dark for to name my old practice, which is inside out--in my climate I prefer the foam & strapping on the outstide to prevent as much bridging as I can (7-8 month cooling season will do that to a person).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Kiss My Bug-Eyed Little Butt!!! View ImageView Image
hey, that's cool ...
wonder if tim has seen it ?
way i remember it... the discussion was "favorite energy walls"
and everyone described theirs
i was using a 2x4 wall with 1" of EPS foam on the interior and 1x3 horizontal furring to keep it from blowing out and providing a nailbase for the drywall
tim convinced me to eliminate the 1" foam and change the furring from 3/4 to 1 1/2"
i ran the numbers and found that the difference between the 2 in terms of r-value was very slight , but the economy was great
so.. it's now our base wall... and i named it after Tim
you can call it what ever you want... just don't call me late for dinner
Late for dinner....
shirley you don't mean that...you only get one chance to do it right the first time
I came up with this type of wall on my own, mostly as a way to deal with the irregular stud spacing on the older homes around here, and to gain a little extra insulation depth. Only later did I learn about the concept of thermal bridging.Steve
Mooney blah blah blah...... I really like your chimney work ;>)Here's an interesting style for you to try next time yer regular mason is scarce.See you in ProvidenceJim
The awful thing is that beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the devil are fighting there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.- Fyodor Dostoyevski
angelo's.... meet at the east lobby doors , 1st floor, Friday at noon
i see lots of these.. especially where the buildings used to be built right against each other... seems they just wanted to corble everything over to come out the ridge
View Image
i'll see what i can dig up the next time i go thru woonsocket or parts of providenceMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike,
In other threads it looked like we were just going to meet at Angelo's at noon.
Seeing how all parties involved have never quite been able to figure out which lobby or doors to meet at.................[email protected]
How about.... away from the table.
Life doesn't often leave a very easy trail to follow.
Mike did you give your "blessing" to builditsolar? Can't believe you and Tim duped them like that... especially when guys like riverersong work really hard to legitimately invent things like a modified larssen truss system, and really, really need to be recognized... smack of joseph smith to anyone? Winterlude, Winterlude, my little daisy,
Winterlude by the telephone wire,
Winterlude, it's makin' me lazy,
Come on, sit by the logs in the fire.
The moonlight reflects from the window
Where the snowflakes, they cover the sand.
Come out tonight, ev'rything will be tight,
Winterlude, this dude thinks you're grand.
Edited 3/13/2008 10:20 pm ET by Snort