I don’t like smoking on the jobsite anywhere. Butts get put out everywhere and anywhere. It seems that smokers (IMHO) don’t seem to have much consideration for non-smokers. A sheetrocker came by the other day to quote a price and he’s just puffing away, seemingly oblivious to the fact that no one else was smoking. Granted, we didn’t have any no smoking signs posted, but if they can’t comprehend the dangers of smoking with all that literature out there, they probably couldn’t read the sign. Can a GC require non-smokers only? Is it feasible? Can it be done? Can a whole house be built by non-smoking trades? Just wonderin’ what y’all thoughts are? Rod
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I don't smoke but you've just proved that some non-smokers aren't very intelligent either............
Gabe
I don't smoke either, bit this intolerant attitude makes me want to puke. Next thing you know, they'll make it illegal to fart.
You go Gabe! I'm a smoker but try not to leave a trace when I leave a job.
Funny thing....I know some towns you would have to import workers to find any that didn't smoke.
In Cape Breton, they smoke like it's a cure for cancer. When the local Tim Horton's made the place none smoking, they almost had a revolution. It was about that time that someone started to see ghost images on the walls that resembled JC.
Gabe
One of the very first crews I worked on as a young lad everybody (including the boss) smoked but me. I learned real quick when one guy took out a cigarette everybody did and stopped working in the process, that was my cue to set my hammer down as well. I liked those "smoke breaks".
I don't mind smokers on the job unless we're working in close proximity. One kid helper kept lighting up as we're working shoulder to shoulder. I told him those cigarettes were gonna be the death of him. Because if he didn't put that dam thing out I was gonna kill him.
Scott R.
I don't allow smoking in the client's house at any time. I've never had anyone get upset over this rule. My carpenters can smoke at break or lunch only (some did get a little upset about this rule) and the smokers have to make sure there's a 5-gallon bucket for butts. (Nashville, TN).
You mean it's legal to fart?
In some of our cities, it's illegal to smoke in any public place including bars and bingo halls. There are no smoking or non smoking sections in any restaurant.
The lunacy of it all is deafening. Why can't bars cater to whatever clientele that they wish.
I have a no smoking sign on the door of my office and everyone respects that. Our projects provide non smoking areas for lunch and breaks. Smoking is permitted during most phases of construction. Only when we paint out and install the final floor finishes do we restrict smoking to specific areas on each floor.
Everyone has certain rights of enjoyment and should be respected. To deny that right is a violation of humanity.
Gabe
Some smokers are pretty dumb, too.
And the point was...........Being a smoker or non-smoker is not a prerequisite to;
intelligence or the lack of,
manners or the lack of,
consideration for others or the lack of,
etc,
Gabe
While I hate smoking, and would agree that many smokers are inconsiderate, I don't think it's appropriate to insult them as you have.
A few puffs when you (or I) were a teenager, and you could be an addict too.
BTW - Since you claim to be so smart, how come you can't spelll intelligence?
Village handyman you sound more like the village idiot! I smoke..it's my only vice, almost. I do it outside....always... and always have a soda can for my butts, which goes in my own trash bag.
I truly apologize I did not mean to be so insulting I guess I was to harsh I take back the statement low intelligence my statement was out of line I know many very capable carpenters that smoke boss hog is right a few puffs when I was younger and I might very well be addicted today smoking is very hard if not impossible to stop once you are hooked
I hope the membership will accept my apologies I was out of line
Bill Garrett
the village handy man
Bill,
Your apology is graciously accepted. I'm sorry, I just get so tired of people asking me why I smoke. I've been clean and sober since June 3rd 1988. I've beaten every addiction but smoking, by far the hardest. Quittin' is easy...it's the not startin' up again part that gets me everytime.
Smokers dont bother me as long as they follow the laws and smoke in desigated areas. The only time they do bug me is since they cant smoke inside public buildings they stand at the door way and smoke so everyone who enters the building can breath it. But again as long as they follow the rules, who cares. But remember my nortorious neighbors well the grandma smoles and Im starting to see some butts in my yard well its almost time for some more urban warfare but thats another thread Darkworksite4: When the job is to small for everyone else, Its just about right for me"
there is NOTHING worse than working side by side with a smoker on a hot and humid day,especially in a confined space. the last time that happened to me , i told the guy to either get away from me with his cig or i was gonna rearange his face..so he put it out....i dont care what he puts in his lungs,but when it affects me , i have a problem with it..work is tough enough sometimes without having to deal with someone elses vices...i work on a small crew so when someone has a problem , we all tell one another.... if someone smells like b o , or is walking around yawning all day cause he stayed up the night before, or has very BAD BREATH...he's gonna hear about it....our crew has become smoke free so when someone from the other crew comes to work with us , he get the roit act from all of the former smokers on our crew..its actually kinda comical
Congratulations on loosing the vices, i have been clean and sober 11 years, after about 2 years i was able to cut back from 2 1/2 packs a day to one smoke a year, all things are possible, but just do them one at a time, easy does it.
as a very good employee once told me "I was addicted to alcohol and nicotine before I was born" - I sympathize - I don't like to be trapped in a closed space with smoke, and I will point out that one cig an hour is 10% reduction in productivity if you just stand there and puff - be aware that the boss and non-smokers know it -
As a smoker, I don't even smoke in my own house, let alone a client's. All of my butts are emptied from my pocket to the garbage at the end of the day whether I've been working, fishing or anywhere else where I don't own the ashtray. I don't smoke in other people's vehicles or in a circumstance where my smoke will affect them. I also have to say when you're self employed, smoke breaks don't mean tools down. They get tied to trips to the truck or materials pile or reviewing the plans.
It really gets my goat when some red-faced fat guy on his fifth beer starts ragging on me for my stupidity in smoking. It bothers me to see patients forced to stand outside the main door of the hospital in their bathrobes with their IV trolleys in tow in midwinter to feed their habit. It annoys me when yet another person I don't know lectures me about my lack of consideration because they saw me holding my cigarette and lighter while on my way out to stand in the rain and smoke. I even had an a.hole (the singer Valdy) try to rip a strip off me because I was smoking in a cabin we were demoing at a resort even though there was no roof and only about half the walls left standing.
I would appreciate the same consideration from others that I grant them. Smokers are not the only ones in the world with self-destructive habits, but certainly bear the brunt of criticism from the righteous.
Edited 7/4/2002 2:23:35 AM ET by Dick
I use to smoke but I haven't smoked in like 10 years.
I remember the first time I was around a smoker after I quit for awhile.
I can not believe how I even got started. I can not stand being even remotely close to someone who is smoking. I now understand.
Seems I've opened up a can of worms. I'm sure we can call all agree that smoking is a dirty disgusting habit that is certainly not healthy in any way shape or form. We, who choose not to partake, shouldn't be subjected to all the mess and smells that come with a smoker. Maybe because your olfactory senses are shot, you don't realize how bad it smells. I don't care to talk with someone after they have a smoke because it's still on their breath. It's on your clothes. In your hair, your vehicle, your very presence. It gets on your grandchildren when they come for a visit. It reeks. I know it's addictive. But there's help out there. I don't understand why someone would let a 3"x 1/4" butt rule their life. And to the smokers who have posted about how neat they are with their butts, that's fine, goody goody for you. You still stink. Are you going to brush your teeth, and wash your clothes after every smoke.
Dick, why don't you smoke in your own house? Hmmmm.
Last year we were hiking Mt. Washington with another couple. About 2/3 rds the way up we're all huffin' and puffin. Hey, getting a good cardio workout, right? Well, the other couple both pull out cigs and light up. #### clueless.
Intolerant? I just like clean air. I like my clean air space. Keith, you can call it intolerance if you like, but I choose not to smoke and will not be put in a position where I have to put up with it because I might hurt somebody's precious feelings.
Rod
Do you drive a truck? Well why don't you turn off that nasty ,stinky ,disgusting ,cancer producing pile of crap that I have to smell and is killing me every time you turn the key....hey, god gave you legs for crips sake, can't you ride a bike?
It has been in the 90's here. I sweat getting out of my truck, and I would much rather smell smoke from one of the guys than the freeking rank reek of these stinkin' farm animals I have to take back to the shop after a day in the sun. I wish one of them would take it up for my sake.
Some think the smell of Bell-ray is the worst in the world... I live for it. Maybe a little Redline.
Personally, I don't want anyone within' arms length of me except the wife, it's my personal space and unless you are giving me life support, I don't want anyone close enough to smell their breath...period.
Face it...it's whining.......intolerant whining......
All the guys on my crew smoke.My policy on job sites is no smoking in the house once insulation goes in. I very rarely smoke anymore and when I do it is usually a good cigar. We don't take scheduled smoke breaks, instead smoking is done when they go to the trailer to get tools or when they are bringing in materials. All of them are very good about keeping the butts picked up and out of sight. TCW Specialists in Custom Remodeling.
I guess the whole point of this thread is flying over the top of your head. Farts? No, I wasn't talking about farts. Bit juvenile, no? And are you telling me that you can't smell someone's breath? Smokers don't have to be "in your face" to stink.
And yes, I do drive a truck. Don't see how I can run a business without one. Every contractor I know has one. But I don't have to have conversations with an exhaust pipe.
Bellray, Redine, I'm not up on what these are. But, let's see.........sweat, smoke, ......sweat, smoke, which would I rather smell. Neither actually, but we know that's impossible. So, how 'bout the lesser of two evils. Do you know what that might be? I'll give ya clue. It's not smoke. Someone sweats, they can always take a bath. Sweat is a natural body reaction. Sweating is healthy. Smoking is not. Smoking is not natural. Smoking is unhealthy. This is called "opposites".
It seems to me that you take a discussion,and twist things around to fit your brand of logic. Farts and driving a truck have absolutely nothing to do with smoking on a jobsite. Get some literature from the docs, if farts or driving trucks is in there somewhere, dinner for you and the wife, on me.
Hope I didn't hurt your feelings. You seem a bit tender.
Rod
It's a chemical that they find pleasurable and relaxing, it causes me no more harm than the exhaust from my truck in small doses. If they want to kill themselves, so be it. This thing called life ain't an endurance race, and there is no reward for living the longest that I know of....it's the pleasure you have along the way....let them be.
Keith,
"It's the pleasure you have along the way"
I gotta be honest with ya man,
That's the most intelligent thing I've read from ya.
Rod
I knew when I started this post that there would be some strong responses. Smoking is very definetely a personal decision and I expected feedback, thank you much you did not disappoint.
Howevever,
My first post asked about jobsites, not personal habits. Can a whole house be built by non-smokers? Not, How can you smokers be so #### stupid. Look again, this is not the question I asked.
So my question remains unanswered.
What really suprise me is that one person, ONE person, out of all the responses mentioned the people to whom we are responsible on the jobsite.
Did you all forget the customer?
Rod
Well, I know that I mentioned being respectful of the property and I remember readin a couple other comments re same. Seems that you are taking this too personally and forgot how to count.
Excellence is its own reward!
Touche! I apologize. You are correct.
Rod
Now let's all smile, shake hands and go enjoy our own pewrsonal vices.
Excellence is its own reward!
I'll shake as soon as I wash off the chocolate.
Rod
I don't allow smoking on my projects, no exceptions, it's right there in the request for a bid, if you can't handle it then don't bother working on my job. Smoking outside is permitted, nothing personal, just common courtesy, who wants to move into a brand new home and have it smell like a bar.
Whiners? Why is complaining about second hand smoke whining? Smokers have the right to smoke but other people have the right to clean air. It's a health issue simple as that. Don't want to quit, can't or just like to smoke, fine do it where it doesn't affect anybody. Suppose your neighbor burned his trash outside your bedroom window every night would you whine about it. Get real, everybody has vices but don't make others suffer because of your habits.
Armin, you do me proud! Can I come work on your sites?
Rod
Rod, Funny thing is I have never had a problem with the guys, maybe I have a more considerate bunch of subs than most. My best friend smokes, he works on some of my projects, never even had to ask him not to smoke indoors. Maybe I'm just lucky or maybe it's my wonderfull personality. At any rate several of my clients have mentioned how nice it is not haveing to deal with cigarett butts and second hand smoke.
I dont know what your spot on the food chain is, but really if you feel this way , you should never work on a job with a smoker or allow one on the job, what ever is the case . That goes for all of you who feel the way Rod does about it. Total segregation.
You boys are so good , say no completely to smokers working on your job . Stand behind it !! No matter who are the best hands , subs , salesmen . Show us what your made of and say no to smokers entirely!!! Then we will know how strong you are in a pinch. But by all means you shouldnt have to bitch about it .
Tim Mooney
Tim,
Go back and read post 1. I posed a simple question, no bitching there at all. If you follow the posts you'll see that the smokers came out bitching because, heaven forbid, they felt that someone challenged their decision to smoke. I defended my position. If you call it bitchin, so be it.
FYI, if it is my jobsite, there is no smoking allowed. Period. And it has worked out quite well.
If I work on someone else jobsite, then their rules apply. I can & do choose to have lunch or take break in a smoke free area. That's my choice. That's my right.
If my line of work I tend to take over a section of the house during construction. I make it known that this area is my area, not to be smoked in. On the few occasions that I've had people light up, I remind them. Once.
You don't have to like it. I don't care if you don't like it. You won't smoke in my work area.
As someone mentioned earlier, it's (besides so f....ing smelly), a health issue. Why, oh why, do you people feel that you can act in such a fashion that is detrimental to my health. I can screw up my health myself without having your help, thanks.
Would you like to have a blueberry pancake, sausage and home fries breakfast ruined by a guy sitting next to you who just came in from having a smoke and reeks . Not me. Perhaps that's because I still have my tastebuds.
It's my choice, and up your #### if you don't like it.
Rod
Refer back to my original post to you .
Tim Mooney
Like I said, all my guys are very considerate and respectful so I've never had to lay down the law except for that one young guy (we all have to grow up sometime). I think the problem comes more from lack of common decency and good manners than from the smoking itself.
It used to be, as someone was already flicking their bic to the stink stick, that they'd say, "Don't mind if I smoke, do ya?"
That I'd have my reply ready, "You smoke, I chew, don't blow on me, I won't spit on you"
Excellence is its own reward!
Thats simple for me...when one asks if I mind if they smoke I just say.....mind if I fart
Be well
Namaste'
Andy
It's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Edited 7/6/2002 8:36:50 AM ET by Andy Clifford(Andybuildz)
Andy, when someone asks if you mind if they smoke, you ask them if they mind if you fart, and they say "no, go right ahead", they light a cigarette, hike a leg and rip one,what do you say then? ;^] To the smokers(myself included), have some comon courtesy and smoke outside. Dash out your butts and throw them in the trash. Non-smokers, lighten up, it's a small world, we all have to live here, so politely ask that all smoking take place outdoors. If you can't handle that, then ask them to leave,
Just don't be so self-righteous.
On the last construction crew I worked on, the boss hated smoking, and didn't like the butts laying around the job site. I dug around behind the seat of my truck and came up with my old belt hung worm can with a sprung lid. hung on my tool belt, it was a great butt container. I didn't smoke in the building, no butts on the ground, boss happy, Dave happy.
All I did was answer post 1 question .
Having spent no less than 14 hours in a smoke filled room with several experts in the field of smokolgy, I have come to a completely biased conclusion. The answer is yes, a house can be built completely by non-smokers. Even the avid type. However, all smokers and nonsmokers, especially the avid type, of either side, are stupid. Thus, the house may collapse at any given time.
In all fairness, I think smoking, starting at the age of 12, should be required by law in all states. And all radio stations should be required by law to play brainwash music (liberal or conservative - it doesn't really matter).
Pardon the thread jumping but it was deemed appropriate by the smokology and musicology experts.
- WebTrooper -
"I'm better than you. Nya, nya, nya."
Edited 7/6/2002 11:57:29 PM ET by WEBTROOPER
I read where smoking cigs causes improper flow of blood to the malepenis thus effecting quality of life at home. Seems appropiate response is to quit smoking them things.
Poor cigarette. Fire on one end, fool on the other.
Not true!
"causes improper flow of blood to the malepenis"
I think you mis-interpreted the article you read. Cigarettes restrict the flow of blood the the head of the smallpenis, not the malepenis, and most certainly not the femallpenis.
LOLExcellence is its own reward!
Piffin,
"causes improper flow of blood to the malepenis"
I hear it also effects the Limp-nodes.
LOL......You guys have given me the laugh of the day.......
At last! we've found one of a rare breed - a liberal who can laugh!Excellence is its own reward!
Hey, I laugh all of the time.......Sometimes to myself, sometimes online......<G>
Musta hit close to home. Everybody suddenly shut up.Half of good living is staying out of bad situations.
This discussion went up in smoke!
I'm sure burned out on it!
Excellence is its own reward!
That's so silly - Smoking doesn't affect limp nodes at all.
It CREATES limp nodes.
James DuHamel
J & M Home Maintenance Service
Edited 7/11/2002 11:12:00 PM ET by James DuHamel
Pass the Marlboro. Thanks. Got a light Jimmy? Any beer? ---- Ya have! Now we're talking. Slainte, RJ.RJFurniture
In addition to smoking,(and I'm a smoker)lets not forget chewing, nose blowing,peeing, farting, and general litterbugging.This whole discussion comes down to one theme......RESPECT! We spend more waking hours with our co-workers and other peoples homes than we do with our families at our own homes(generally speaking)and I think we owe it to everyone to be professional and respectful.
Professionally,I respect your right to self-destruct in any manner you deem necessary.
Respectfully,I request that you don't
smoke on my paint
spit chew on my lumber
p#ss in the dirt where I have to stand
blow your nose where I have to install baseboard
or expect me to pay the laborer to clean up after your lunch mess.
It has always been my philosophy that while you're building someones home, you are a guest in that home, and they are paying you for the priveledge of having you as a guest.
thanks for the soapbox
As a former smoker I have a somewhat different take on the situation:
I am weak and would sure like to start back up. Being around heavy smokers for 8-10 hours a day is VERY tough. Sure would be easy to bum a smoke or two and become a regular smoker again.
I don't mind having sporadic (sp) contact with smokers, just can't work right next to one
Timh almost 3 years off the cancerswticks
LOLOL...your a riot Keith, This whole thread was a Laff...I think I will go outside and have a Punch Cigar....:o)
Then Im off to vegas...wish me luck!!!makinsawdust
I just decided to quit. I'll let y'all knowe tomorrow how I do.
you wrote: "Intolerant? I just like clean air. I like my clean air space."
We feel the same about the smog that drifts in from places like the Ohio Valley and makes working/playing outside nearly impossible for a lot of people..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
How about the smell from the garbage strike in Toronto? Or our Domtar plants, or Inco or..............
Gabe
Sounds like a little of that righteousness I was talking about. Of course, you have no self-destructive or offensive habits, so I suppose you are entitled.
You know, there's a lot of things about a lot of people that I'd prefer not to have to deal with...but hey, that's life. What really matters is the customer. On customer jobs, I provide, along with a portapotty, if needed, and a radio, and water, and ash can. No butts allowed outside the can. Smoke 'em if you got 'em. Same on new construction; porta, water, radio, buttcan. No smoking inside after insulation (as someone else mentioned). No foul language near customer, blah, blah, blah. Be professional, act professional, treat your coworkers like men, not someone to talk down to, and we'll all get rich someday.
As a matter of fact I do have a self destructive habit, I like good food, therefore I'm a bit over my ideal weight. The difference, I believe, is that this affects only me. Unless you can tell me different.
No self-righteousness here, just asked a simple question (post 1) and got back some strong responses. Good. Looks like a chord was struck.
I don't smoke, but I used to. Quit 22 years ago when my first son was born.
I don't drink, but I used to do that too. To excess. Quit that 24 years ago. So yes, I did, do, and probably still have some offensive habits. None that I know of that jeopardize the health of others.
Dick, after reading some of your other posts, I expected more than sarcasm.
Rod
"As a matter of fact I do have a self destructive habit, I like good food, therefore I'm a bit over my ideal weight. The difference, I believe, is that this affects only me. Unless you can tell me different.
"
OK, I'll bite. Just for the fun of it so take any of this personally but let's just see if I can pop your balloon.
I hate it when fat people try to PUSH their way past me in a store aisle. Sometimes it's downright dangerous as they slide that blob along and knock me of balance. I may look perfectly strong and healthy but those discs in my back have to stay perfectly lined up to avoid pain. The last time I rode on an airplane, my assigned seat neighbor was, like you, a bit over. so he manged to steal some of my space, making me far less comfortable than I could've been sitting next to a nice svelte Swedish blonde with a sweet cover girl smile. He was guilty of theft for the space that he took but that I paid for on that plane.
And they pay the same insurance rates that I do, even tho' they are as much as three times more likely to linger on an expensive disease. That means that I'm paying for their bad habits!
And the smell! Granted, Cigarette smell is atrocious and I hate to have visitors who've been smoking because of it (maybe I'm one of those whiny individuals or maybe my nose is more well endowed than some) but doesn't it seem to you that fat people just reek of an acidy, greasy kind of unique smell?
And they whine and moan with the best of them, too! "...can't seem to keep it off" or "That diet just doesn't seem to work with me, do you think that hypnotism will help me lose..." I wonder what the actuall percentage of "big boned" people really is.
Not only that -
But here you are trying to get more people to give up smoking and you know what happens to non-smokers don't you? They eat instead - and gain weight. I think that I'll start a campaign to get people to stop eating on the job or at the keyboard - now PUT THOSE PEANUTS UP and drink plain water boy if you know what's good for me!
Excellence is its own reward!
Edited 7/4/2002 5:33:57 PM ET by piffin
Sorry to disappoint, Piffin, no balloon to pop here.
Yes, grossly obese people do seem to have a unique smell. We've been thru the sweat-smoke thing here earlier if you care to review. Or get ahold of Keith, he can enlighten you like no one can.
True, I did start gaining after I quit smoking. But it wasn't like I was switching one vice for another. I had the satisfaction of knowing my kids grew up in a smoke free enviroment. My mother wouldn't come visit because she knew she'd have to smoke outdoors of our house. Her loss. She finally got smarter and quit too. Now she realizes how badly her house, her clothes etc. stunk. But we've been thru this already. It's like beating a dead horse.
You misunderstand, I'm certainly not trying to get anyone to quit smoking. I'd rather try and count snowflakes. I simply posed a question and responded to replies.
Rod
just asked a simple question (post 1)
Not quite true, there was a little bit of editorial content, as follows:
I don't like smoking on the jobsite anywhere. Butts get put out everywhere and anywhere. It seems that smokers (IMHO) don't seem to have much consideration for non-smokers. A sheetrocker came by the other day to quote a price and he's just puffing away, seemingly oblivious to the fact that no one else was smoking. Granted, we didn't have any no smoking signs posted, but if they can't comprehend the dangers of smoking with all that literature out there, they probably couldn't read the sign.
The red highlighted part was the generalization I responded to in my first post. Here is a part of your response to me:
I'm sure we can call all agree that smoking is a dirty disgusting habit that is certainly not healthy in any way shape or form. We, who choose not to partake, shouldn't be subjected to all the mess and smells that come with a smoker. Maybe because your olfactory senses are shot, you don't realize how bad it smells. I don't care to talk with someone after they have a smoke because it's still on their breath. It's on your clothes. In your hair, your vehicle, your very presence. It gets on your grandchildren when they come for a visit. It reeks. I know it's addictive. But there's help out there. I don't understand why someone would let a 3"x 1/4" butt rule their life. And to the smokers who have posted about how neat they are with their butts, that's fine, goody goody for you. You still stink. Are you going to brush your teeth, and wash your clothes after every smoke.
I think you are a little beyond the bounds of what you indicate is your question. As far as that particular subject goes, sure you can. You can do whatever you want provided you are willing to pay for it. I suppose legality enters into it, but certainly doesn't control it.
As for your real topic (and a dandy firestarter it is!), most nonsmokers don't acknowledge either the accomodations smokers have made or their own offensive behaviors. I'm tired of it and don't have any more tolerance. I stink of tobacco and thats the truth. I'm the guy with the blonde ponytail wearing jeans and a golf shirt in summer or jeans, a flannel shirt and a fleece vest in winter. If you see me, go sit somewhere else. I've done as much for you as I'm going to - though collecting the butts is for my sake, not yours. I'm sure as hell not going to listen to you whine about what I smell like unless you are willing to listen to me ramble about what I think your shorcomings are, even if I don't know anything about you. You aren't getting any of my second hand smoke (see my first post), so I'm not contributing to your problems and don't want to hear about them.
By the way, I don't like how much aftershave you put on or how you talk to the waitress and your red shirt gives me a headache. The cost of the liver damage from your drinking and the heart disease and clogged arteries from your eating habits and the joint degeneration from your inactivity and the respiratory problems from industrial pollution and the amount of time you spend in your car is going to bankrupt the medical system. Oh yeah, what about all the preservatives in the food you eat? My smoke is causing your stomach cancer? Yeah, right. Why can't you be more intelligent and responsible? .................................Feeling a little sarcastic yet?
Gentleman,
Thank you all for a spirited thread. I admit, I may have learned a thing or two here. Perhaps you too. As many of you have stated, consideration and respect are the words of the day.
Rod
Dick,
By the way, I don't like how much aftershave you put on or how you talk to the waitress and your red shirt gives me a headache. The cost of the liver damage from your drinking and the heart disease and clogged arteries from your eating
My aftershave and bad eating habits is not going to give you cancer or heart desease, yet your smoking will effect the health of everybody around you, including your wife and kids.
My smoke is causing your stomach cancer? Yeah, right. Why can't you be more intelligent and responsible?
The above statement says volumns about your intellegence.
End of story.
My aftershave and bad eating habits is not going to give you cancer or heart desease,
Your right Armin, it isn't going to give me trouble, its going to give YOU heart disease and possibly cancer.
The above statement says volumns about your intellegence
.....as your post says about your's. Anybody can take something out of context to mean other than it did, you are just better then most at it. Maybe it's that conservative outlook you call 'indepedendent'.
By the way, I don't like how much aftershave you put on or how you talk to the waitress and your red shirt gives me a headache. The cost of the liver damage from your drinking and the heart disease and clogged arteries from your eating habits and the joint degeneration from your inactivity and the respiratory problems from industrial pollution and the amount of time you spend in your car is going to bankrupt the medical system. Oh yeah, what about all the preservatives in the food you eat? My smoke is causing your stomach cancer? Yeah, right. Why can't you be more intelligent and responsible? .................................Feeling a little sarcastic yet?
Hi Dick,
Woosh! Do you feel something flying over your head also? This has nothing to do with this thread. Tend to go off on your own little tangent, don't ya? Well, we're gonna try and help you out. First, we'll play a game. You take this square block and fit it thru the square hole. Then, you can take this round block and fit it thru the round hole. Once you can do this with skill, we'll move on to other things. Eventually you develop an understanding of concepts. I know, it's ok. You don't quite get it yet. But you will if you try really, really hard. And when that day comes, just think, you will finally be able to go back to post 1 and actually understand it. (can you hear the trumpets playing?) And that day will truly be a great day for us all.
Howzzzzat Dick?
I mean that in a nice way.
Rod
Rod, your talk of concepts and things being lost on people, and how we are just not getting it because we are thick, can't read or are stupid.....maybe it's not all us. Maybe YOU aren't communicating your thoughts very well.
I'm not much for the tongue in cheek, back stabbing, sneaky ways to make someone feel or appear stupid. I just say it and forget people have feelings...I don't do feelings.
And on a related note, I believe the smoking rates are actually going up and not down as is reported. I see more young lighting up than ever before, and having talked to my insurance man, he says the same. The insurance companies are drilling smokers and he claims more and more are reporting that they don't smoke, when in fact they do. (these are the 30-40's who are getting life insurance) Some try to blame a positive blood test on second hand smoke from bars, co-workers etc.... he saw one guy who just got insurance as a non-smoker on a golf course smoking like a chimney.....he approached him and said...if something happens, this is insurance fraud.
And no matter what you say, it comes down to tolerance. The hint of the smell just sets you off, it's your trigger. You use the health aspect as a justification, but the fact is it just infuriates you for some reason. You can do as you wish for your jobsites, I really don't care, and neither does anyone else, we don't work for you.
For me it's animals. I don't like dogs or cats in my house, there smell makes a house smell. I don't like them on my jobsites as pets either. They are a liability. And cats are a whole different story......a long time ago, a few hung out at my house, strays. Fighting, killing other things, etc.. I relocated them to the farther out in the country.
Hi Keith,
For the record, I think I've communicated my thoughts quite well.
Health issues don't need justifaction.
And I bring my dog to every jobsite I go to unless someone complains. Then she stays home. She has stayed home about 4 weeks in 8 years.
When the plumber walks by, he kicks the ball so the dog can chase it.
When the electrician walks by, ditto.
Ditto for the homeowners, the painters, the laborers, etc. If Bailey doesn't show up with me they ask me , how come she's taking the day off. You can come to my house. It might smell like dog.
But it won't have adverse affects on your health.
Unless your allergic to dogs, of course. Had to get that in there as a disclaimer. Don't want ya'all jumping down my throat, now.
BTW, do I owe you dinner, or no?
Rod
Come on Rod, say what you really feel!
Well, here is your first post: I don't like smoking on the jobsite anywhere. Butts get put out everywhere and anywhere. It seems that smokers (IMHO) don't seem to have much consideration for non-smokers. A sheetrocker came by the other day to quote a price and he's just puffing away, seemingly oblivious to the fact that no one else was smoking. Granted, we didn't have any no smoking signs posted, but if they can't comprehend the dangers of smoking with all that literature out there, they probably couldn't read the sign. Can a GC require non-smokers only? Is it feasible? Can it be done? Can a whole house be built by non-smoking trades? Just wonderin' what y'all thoughts are? Perhaps you would be so kind as to explain what grand concept I missed.
Didn't like that bit where I was explaining what your bad habits will do to you? Do you remember where I said most nonsmokers are unaware of their own obnoxious behaviours? The most common behavior is just exactly what I did there. I just substituted red shirt and aftershave for smelling like smoke, and all those other health problems from certain behaviors instead of lung damage from smoking. You seem quite happy to tell me the damage that smoking is doing to me. You don't seem as interested in what your damage your behaviours are doing to you, you even seem a little annoyed when they are pointed out as I did in my post.
Don't give me that tired old bit about second hand smoke Sure, second hand smoke is dangerous. Under current rules, the only place smokers can smoke is outside, so a smoker really has to work to subject someone else to it (other than subjecting your kids which I agree is unacceptable). It is something a nonsmoker can easily avoid by the simple expediency of moving away from the smoker. I'll accomodate you by not subjecting you to my habit other than the way I smell (reread my first post) and you can accomodate me by just leaving me alone with my cigarette. By all means, build a house with non-smoking trades. Use a non-smoking agent to sell it. Sell it to a non-smoker. You can build your whole life around non-smokers if you want. If thats what you want, just do it, but do it without all the knocks against smokers along the way. They really are counter-productive in that they make me far less concerned about accomodating your needs.
Of course, the 'you' used here is the figurative rather than the literal. ;o)
I cant see where a lot of good came out of this post. There was a lot of things said to one another that should have been tounge in cheek." Thats what we really need is to piss off the people thats left and fight amoung our selfs" 'NOT" What you stated in your question was that houses be built with out smokers. A smoker leads a life of being pushed around , told where he can go, having to listen to lectures all the time. So he comes here where it is his enjoyment and finds this post . Now there is not a lot of benifits on a construction job any way , [none] so now you add fuel to the fire , and tell them construction should go on with out them. [ houses built with out using smokers]
Now I will make the point I made in another post that got out of hand. WE are here for each others enjoyment. This is supposed to be a picnic, not a revival. WE should practice here to be professional, and above all be accomadating to our fellow man , for that is what this is all about. There are more here than a select few to enjoy this site , and that should be respected also.
Tim Mooney
Tim, some of us ARE enjoying this, and I don't think anyone is taking it too seriously!
Edited 7/6/2002 11:47:44 AM ET by Dick
Now there's a statement I can agree with. I am enjoying this thread and I'm certainly not taking it to serious.
I don't see where the smells of foods, sweat, etc. have anything to do with the inherent health dangers of breathing someone elses smoke. Dick, this is the "concept" I was talking of. I also don't believe I ever mentioned what harm smoking would do to smokers. Only what it does to me. You guys know enough about the harmful aspects of smoking without me telling you.
Granted, bad breath from a smoker can't harm me, it's just a nasty aftereffect.
Rod
Breathing someone else's smoke does present a danger, one it is impossible not to be aware of. With the rules in place now, at least in my neighbourhood, a non-smoker has to work to do that. When they work to do that, I don't want to hear the complaint. The majority of smokers respect the rights of non-smokers. That drywall contractor shouldn't have brought his cigarette with him, but you could have told him to put it out or leave. In B.C., it is illegal to smoke in the workplace.
Admittedly I am on a tangent. However, as I explained in response to your initial and continued tarring of all smokers with the same brush, I ensure my smoking affects noone but me and those who choose to subject themselves to it. It doesn't seem to register with you that most smokers go out of their way to respect the rights of non-smokers. The percentage that don't is probably similar to the percentage of people who operate automobiles in a manner that endangers others represents in the driving population. The percentage who leave a mess is similar to the percentage of people who throw their trash out the window of their car. It's not the being a smoker that is objectionable, it is the actions of those who are inconsiderate. Smoking is just one of the ways they do that.
It seems to me that the concept of the dangers of second hand smoke is so clear as to not need any comment from me or you, and those barbs that came with your presentation of it (but if they can't comprehend the dangers of smoking with all that literature out there, they probably couldn't read the sign) were something I wanted to address. I tried to do that by giving back to you the treatment that many non-smokers direct at smokers, an example of which you have kindly provided. It may not relate directly to your point, but your point doesn't relate to me even though I belong to that class you are haranguing without taking the time to differentiate between the behaviours within that class. I thought it might give you an opportunity to see it from a smokers perspective with the extra intention of pointing out the glass houses that most of the stone throwers live in. Perhaps I didn't do very well, but I don't think I did any worse than you in making clear your concept.
Another point for people to think about is that most smokers would prefer not to smoke and would prefer not to affect others when they do. The minority that don't care aren't representative of the majority and if you want the continued accomodation of those who work at not affecting you, it is not a bad idea to acknowledge the effort they make.
Well spoken, Dick. As I've said earlier, I too have learned a few things here.
Thanks. Rod
Tim,
I don't recall where I said that the construction business should carry on without smokers. I (at risk of repeating myself) simply asked if a house could be built without smokers. I already know the answer. It's been done and will continue to be done. I have challnged the way people think of themselves (myself included) and got back some great responses. I think that so far this thread has been very successful. Possibly when people go back to work on Monday they will bring up how they were on Breaktime over the weekend and had to put up with this self-righteous ####.(not my description) That's ok! Bottom line , wether you like it or not, it's made everyone who's been following this thread to think. And that's success in my eyes.
And if you didn't have an interest in what's being said here, why are you contributing.
Gotcha thinking, eh?
Really, it takes all kinds to make the world go 'round.
Rod
I don't understand why someone would let a 3"x 1/4" butt rule their life
I started smoking full time in about 1966. Smoked a pack to a pack and a half a day for 35 years. I seriously tried quitting many times over the years. Hyponotism, acupunction, adversive reaction therapy, psychotherapy, hypnotism again, group therapy, the patch, nicotine gum, bets with friends, cold turkey, etc.
No success. (Longest I went was 3 days, then went out for a couple of drinks.)
January 2001, my wife filed for divorce. I used the various strong feelings and the patch to finally quit for good. (I don't advocate divorce as part of a quiting smoking program, but it worked for me!)
Maybe you don't understand why someone can let cigarettes rule their lives, but that statement says more about you and your understanding of addicition than it does about smokers.
BTW, smokers don't have a clue as to how noticeable and persistent the odor is.
BTW, smokers don't have a clue as to how noticeable and persistent the odor is.
Some of us do....James DuHamel
J & M Home Maintenance Service
ME: BTW, smokers don't have a clue as to how noticeable and persistent the odor is.
JIM: Some of us do....
Well. Maybe some do. I knew it, intellectually, but quiting brought a whole new perspective for me. I never smelled smoke in houses I inspected until a few months after I quit; I still remember being surprised at smelling smoke at the out-doors minerature gold place from some folks 20-25' away!
I would like to say, thank god for smokers.
I don't smoke anymore,but I know it would be nearly impossible for me to field a crew of roofers without letting them smoke.( and if I banned tatoos---the worlds dumbest idea(tatoos) ,I would instantly be out of business---I think I am the only smoke free,tatoo free roofer In town)
What's the matter, babe, you don't like good art work?
LOL,
First time I ever heard of someone suggesting Keith is tender.
I used to chew so I understand how hard to quit. I had heavy cravings for at least two years and somestimes still...
I have asthma and someitmes cig smoke will shut me down but I don't let that influence my opinions of others personal habits. Most of my guys are respectfull of the property and clean up after themselves. I did have one young guy who was working with a lit butt constantly dangling and I had to point out that all those shavings and sawdust were a perfect home for disaster with a little help from a spark...and he thought I was picking on him! I had to lay down the law "Go outside or go home" Excellence is its own reward!
Bob,
I assure you that I know how it feels to have an addiction. I don't understand why some people just decide to accept it. You seemed to try everything under the sun to stop. Why?
Why? Simple question. Obviously you weren't happy about it. If your divorce hadn't have done it, then something would have. You were truly looking for help. You would have found it somewhere.
Rod
Rod,
But the fact of the matter is it took decades for me to overcome it, and even then,. I got lucky.
I don't deserve any more credit for finally kicking it than I did all tghose times I gave it a dedicated try.
I got addicted to the things when I was young and stupid and open to myriad suggestions floating around at the time encouraging smoking.
It is a very tough habit to break (at least for many people) and while I was certainly open to unabashed scorn for starting in the first place; when I look at others who smoke I completely understand how they can find quiting extremely difficult, if not impossible.
Just curious. What do you define as your airspace? Is anyone else that you know of allowed an equal amount of airspace to do with as they please like you? Would you ever be willing to share your airspace with someone else?
Do you smoke pot, drink alcoholic beverages of any type, take prescription pain relievers? Do you drive a car? Did you ever have a few beers and then less than eight hours later, drive a vehicle or operate machinery. Do you eat garlic, onions, ocra or brussel sprouts. Have you ever pan fried fish or liver? Do you let someone in your house cook with cumin. Do you use after shave, cologne or deodorant? Do you work hard enough to break a sweat and if so do you take a shower and change clothes before you enter someone else's airspace.
This is a list of a few things that people do that offend me. So, while my smoking may be offending to you, something that you do might be just as offending to me. If you can understand that then you'll stop your silly band wagon against smokers and go directly to the tobacco companies. They are the root of the problem.
Steve - in Northern California
Edited 7/24/2002 4:05:41 PM ET by Steve Schefer
Edited 7/24/2002 4:11:03 PM ET by Steve Schefer
O.K. You smoke, and I'll fart.
there.
we're even.no turn left unstoned
Now that reminds me of a time way back in college.......Me and my buddy Frank are sitting at the bar......having a few beers..........this chick and her date sit down next to us....she's on the stool right beside me....the boyfriend is on her other side......
She lights up......they talk....the whole time she's holding this lit but unsmoked cig over her shoulder...very fashionable.....a few inches from my face.......my lips got closer to the cig than hers did! She may have taken 2 or 3 tokes the whole time.
That cig burns down..........she lights another one.....same deal.
As she pulls out the 3rd cig......I lean over and ask..."You gonna smoke that one...or just light it and let it burn in my face again?".......
She get's the attitude going.....said how if her cig smoke smell bothers me...then so does my beer drinking.......so I say....."Not the same....my beer doesn't drift into your face...."......She goes on with the attitude........blows smoke into my face....
I smile at Frank......take a swig of beer.....and spray it all over her!
Said...."I see your point now...."
I jump up thinking the boyfriend is about to beat the hell outta me.....thinking my good buddy Frank has my back......but Frank falls immediately to the floor....almost having a seisure from laughing so hard.......
her date never said a word........guess between me spraying......and Frank laying on a dirty bar floor laughing......he probably thought we were too goofy to deal with.
Many's the time I've thought about trying that again...when some smoker likes their cig as more of a prop than an actual vice! Jeff
She's exotic ,but not foreign, like an old Cadillac......she's a knockout!
"I see your point now....
ROFLMFAO !!!Quittin' Time
"ROFLMFAO".......that's what Frank did! Literally!
And good times were had by most! Jeff She's exotic ,but not foreign, like an old Cadillac......she's a knockout!
In my younger days, I would have been figuring how I could get her away from that loser she was with and getting her to wrap her lips around my.......mmmm.....ahhh......love chisel. Those smokers usually have loose morals.....I like that in a woman!
she was purty! Jeff She's exotic ,but not foreign, like an old Cadillac......she's a knockout!
Steve,
go directly to the tobacco companies. They are the root of the problem.
Not so dude, if you didn't buy the products there would be no tabacco companies, nobody is forceing you to smoke.
I do not like smoking. But I will fight like hell for you and everyone to have the right to make that choice.
Charlie
I didn't want smoking in my house while we were building it, but the request was often ignored. Then I'd have the dilemma of letting it go or making an issue of it and maybe pissing off someone who I was counting on for good work. When I was cleaning up after different crews, I found butts all over the place. For a non-smoker, that's just gross.
Also have a lot of chewers around here, and they'd spit in any sawdust pile they found. Yuck. One guy just spit on the concrete floor, so I told his foreman to address it and he did. That guy wasn't ever back on the site--my issue was just the straw that broke the camel's back, be/c they said he showed up drunk on occasion and they were tired of covering for him. One of the spitters (my electrician) got mad at me when I prepared a pail with sand for his use. Didn't come back on site for two weeks--just sent his workers. When he came back he told me he had quit chewing.
One of the problems with telling a heavy smoker to keep it outside is they then have to take a LOT of breaks, and when you're paying by the hour, it kinda sucks to see someone out there enjoying a smoke, while the non-smokers are inside working. Think they stopped the clock? Not likely. Not from what I saw.
Rod
Simply state the fact that yours is a non smoking jobsite, and if the puffers get upset, too bad. I've been renovating a 170 year old home, and allow nobody to smoke inside.
Glenn
Hi Jack,
In answer:
I'm not making it a health issue. It is a health issue; you cannot, in all seriousness, deny that.
I haven't built a "greenhouse", and don't advocate getting rid of plywood, etc, etc. It's taken enough of my energy just keeping up with this thread. That would take more than a lifetime's commitment and I just don't know enough about it all. Not that I want to.
I believe I do have valid concerns and would like to thank you for pointing that out.
I guess more or less I'm concerned with my "personal" space and the invasion of smoke from cigs.
I regret that I may have generalized in my original question. I'm sure most smokers can read.
As for me, I have learned quite a bit, and will keep an eye out for the smoker who goes to lengths not to infringe on others clean air. And will congratulate, and heap praise upon him.
And now, for me, at least, case closed.
Thank you all.
Rod
And to you for a lively topic.
Was mine the only dad that said " Keith, if they'll put one of those in their mouth, they'll put anything in there" and wink at me?
What? What??
Jeff
She's exotic ,but not foreign, like an old Cadillac......she's a knockout!
Sounds like Jack can still smoke all the cigs he wants.Half of good living is staying out of bad situations.
Excuse me,
I've jumped to the end of the discussion. Politeness and consideration all 'round are very important. Butt... I happen to have severe asthma (aka daily symptoms for which I medicate). I can usually tolerated working around smokers when outdoors. Indoors is another matter, and Marlboros, for some reason, are totally unacceptable. I wish they were acceptable, butt the reality is, I'm allergic to something in cigarette smoke. For me, working indoors with a chain-smoker of Marlbobros would make me a candidate for the emergency room. So, in my opinion, your right to smoke ends where it endangers my health. Admittedly, my health is more marginal than that of other carpenters you might work with. As to all of you who might respond "you shouldn't be doing construction anyway! It's dusty! Yup, and I wear a respirator 50% or more of my time on the site. Always for sweeping up, masonry grinding, etc. Just my thoughts on the matter- Some of us have a reason for being intolerant of cigarette smoke that we wish we didn't have.
Well said.
Tim Mooney
No question that some folks have a good reason for their intolerance of smokers, and I sympathize with you.
I understand perfumes have that same effect on some asthma sufferers. Does the asthma sufferer in that case have a duty to accept the limitations their medical condition causes or the right to force others to cease wearing perfumes?
Perfumes and some cleaning supplies are equally likely to lay me down...Excellence is its own reward!
Smell and memory can be a powerful thing. I received chemotherepy and radiation treatment for cancer of the lymph system back in the middle eighties. The chemo was particularly nasty at times with the nausea. The hospital had some type of room odorizers which when smelled even years later now still propels me back to that time with an element of discomfort. I recognize that chemical in certain perfumes that have the same effect. On the job IMHO there should be a balance of exchange between parties involved. Unnecessary demands vrs. lack of gentlemenly respect for others/ needs and social etiquette. Sometimes the boss needs to lay down the law.Half of good living is staying out of bad situations.
I'd rather be around smokers than chewers. I cannot understand the allure of spitting black crap out of your mouth all day.
Did you ever see a guy open his truck door at a light, lean out, and drop a gob of spit on the road? And you just know they think the babe in the car next to them is all over it.
Oh yeah... they're the Skoal Bandit
Peter
I tried to emphasize: I'm not intolerant of smokers, but of smoking. Sometimes a line is crossed and I become intolerant of a particular smoker who won't negotiate with me. Whenever I mention it on a site, I try to make sure people understand it's just... a condition associated with that site when I'm on it.
Also, Piffin's brought up a point: It's not just cigarette smoke. For me, it's certain perfumes, solvents, deodorants, diesel smoke, sulfur fumes as well. The sanding dust of some woods is more likely than others to bring on an asthma attack. But the very worst is cat dander/cat urine. I once spent more money on asthma treatment than I made on a job where someone had full-time indoor cat. Yah, it's a bummer, but I now turn down jobs involving dwellings where there is/ has been a full time indoor cat...and on jobs with a part-time indoor cat, I wear my respirator indoors at all times.
Stay healthy, it's cheaper than picking up your pieces afterwards.
Rasta man vibration.......hmmmmm....I know so many of you/ us..want one burnin' mon......when you go home.turn on Mr Marley mon......getcha one burnin'......kick back with a Red Stripe or a glass of Chard..the smoker roasting da chicken mon....basted in da hot sauce my brothers.....soooooo hungry,,,,,c'mon....party time...tomorrows another day.....life is wayyyyyy too short. Come on over and share my cool runnins on da grill
Be well
Namaste'
Andy
It's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM