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Folks,
Okay, I’m an amateur. Maybe worse. I was able to run phone line to first floor locations fine, but now that I’m trying to go to the 2nd floor, I’m stymied. The house is new construction, with 2×6 studs and fiberglass batt insulation. I pulled off a section of heater baseboard cover, and drilled at a 45 degree downward angle to get into the wall cavity. So far, so good. Now I find my snake won’t snake because of there’s too much of that good ol’ Corning R-factor in the way. Am I an idiot for trying this? Should I just run surface wiring, or run it up a tree and in the window? Should I (gasp!) hire a professional?
Any help appreciated.
-Mike D.
Replies
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Mike, my understanding is that you're working from the second floor level down an exterior wall to an existing phone outlet where you wish to make the splice.
Try drilling a larger hole, say 1" diameter. Drill so you can access the inside of the vapor barrier (between the interior sheetrock and the insulation).
Secure a fairly heavy object (say a 1/2" x 6" bolt, although a BLUNT plumb bob would be ideal) to some plumber's chain and see if you can clear the way down with repeated drops. The key is to stay between the smooth paper vapor barrier of the insulation and the smooth inner surface of the wall board. Your fish tape is probably punching through the paper and jamming in the insulation.
This technique has worked for me, and I'll bet there's lots of other equally good ideas you're gonna get from the folks here.
IF you run it up a tree and into a window, consider the advantages of using the phone line for a hanging out clothes to dry.
Good luck, Steve
*This is one of the fun parts of remodeling, getting your phone and cable installations to look like you had planned them properly before you built your house or addition.You could put your line on interior, rather than exterior walls (no insulation) and come down from the attic (you got one of them??) by drilling the top plate into a stud bay. Just a matter of making sure you can get into a particular bay BEFORE you cut the wall to put in the box. Phone lines are run up the exterior of buildings all the time. You can even hide them quite well next to trim. It's just a little neater to bring one line into the attic and go from there. I really hate it when the cable guy (or the phone guy) drills a hole through an exterior wall for his drop and leaves 8-10 feet of cable coiled on the floor instead of a neat job with a box and cover plate. I have been able to push a snake down an exterior GABLE wall, through insulation, and then pull a line back up from the hole you cut for the old-work box.
*I don't know if this passes code, but I know one guy who put the phone wire inside a heat (or return air) duct.
*Couple of years ago I spent a lot of time looking for a portable phone with one base station and two extensions. This was to save me from running a phone wire to the shop. Couldn't find anyone that made one like that. Several people asked me why I would want one.Well, Simmons now makes one. Put the 2nd phone on a charger up to 200 yards away and bingo! you have a wireless extension phone. I can have one in the shop and the wife can have one in the house and I don't have to run any wires! And I don't have to pay the phone company for 2 lines. AND, they can be used as an intercom.
*I guess that last one may not be an advantage. :)
*Mike, instead of using a fish tape, go to good electrical supply store and ask for fiberglass rod pull tape. They are about 3/16 to 1/4 inch diameter and come in 6 foot sections that screw togather. They cost about $25.00 for a four section pole. If you have your holes in the same stud cavity the rod will push thruogh the insulation easily and you can hook it out of the botton hole with a bent coat hanger. They are much better than fish tape, plumbers chains, or anything else I have tried over the years. I have pulled in hundred of drops of cat.5 LAN lines in insulated walls the past few years with one. I even retrieved my side cutters from inside a chase wall with one loade with duct tape.
*Mike,There are some companies out there that sell the specialized tools you need to get the job done with a minimum of frustration. All it takes is money...Try a search on "labor saving devices", out of Denver, Colorado. They have a great selection of tools to do exactly what you want to do. And their catalog (and I think, their website) has neat descriptions on how to use to tools. Also a search on "mike sandman" will produce a site with a great selection of wire running tools. Mike's a good guy and a Chicago-based supplier of equipment and tools for phone installers. He even has a couple of videos on running wire in existing buildings. I particularly like the scene where he pulls a .357 short barrel out of a pant holster and describes how it can be used in running phone wire!Basically, the thing you're gonna need is a fiberglass fish tape made for in-wall wire running. Stiffer than fiberglass tapes made for fishing conduit...Figure on spending $40-70, depending on how far you have to go.Good luck. Cliff
*Cap, OK OK I have to ask!! Re: your reference to this "mike sandman" guy. I've been doing electrical work for the past 28yrs and I've been a cop for the past 16yrs....so how the heck do you use a short barrel .357 to run phone wire inside a wall cavity??. I was going to give it a try but everytime I tried to tape the end of the phone wire to the back of the bullet and closed the cylinder the wire would pull loose!!!! Am I using the wrong caliber of handgun. I have several "auto's" ...will they run multiple lines. Please tell me...I can save a lot in tools by simply using my duty weapon to run the wiring!! Rick p.s.(I guess I'll have to start wearing my bullet proof vest when I do electrical/communication work from now on) r.
*Guys,Thanks for all the great answers. Sounds like it's time to dust off the wallet and head down to the electrical supply counter. First, it's clear I need a bigger hole. I can't do much through this 1/2-inch peep hole I drilled. Then maybe it's time for something more heavy duty to fish down the wall with. Maybe an anvil on a logging chain, or one-a-them fiberglass doohickeys. I'd rather avoid going up the outside wall and down through the attic, since it's really just a crawl space, and not a big one at that (and who knows what's set up housekeeping up there in the last few years). If I do have to run it up the tree and in the window, any suggestions on what type of wire stands up the best to wet clothes?Wish me luck.-Mike D.
*OK, Mike... Cheap 4-wire phone cord is all right for lingere, but you'll want CAT-5 for jeans, bed sheets and such. Tie off the phone wire at the base of the tree, run it up over a high branch, then down through a pulley with a sash weight attached, then back up to another pulley attached to the tree at window level, then to a cleat on the inside window casing. You can pull in the phone cord, hang a few items, let it out, hang some more, etc. Retrieval of dry laundry is the reverse process.At least that's how we do it around here.... (Also nice for flying the car numbers of your favorite NASCAR driver)Good luck, Steve
*Steve,Thanks for the tip. Why is it I get such odd looks from the guys at the yard when I ask for pulleys the right size for cat5 wire?-Mike D.
*Ditto on "Labor Saving Devices" All the low voltage guys use their stuff. Some great snakes, weights, rods, line cords, drill bits, and generally neat stuff. Check it out at http://www.lsdinc.com/products.htmIf your a tool junkie like me, then you'll really like this stuff.
*I think it is likely that the gun is used to get through blocking without having to get a drill and a really long drill bit down into the cavity.
*Yaa...my cordless works all the way into town...fo-get-about the damn wire and get a phone like that...near the stream easily answering da tele,aj
*Mike, it's 'cause you went to "the yard"... a regular building supply yard or hardware dealer, right? Go instead to a "big box": The people there will gladly assist you in selecting a pulley, and probably have them on the shelves near the phone wiring.Regards, Steve
*Steve - Neither the Lowe's or Home Depot near me carry pulley's. The guy at HD didn't even know what one was. I get mine at Sears Hardware.
*Train your gerbil to go down the hole with the wire in his mouth. LOL. What type of siding do you have on your home ,if it is vinyl it would be real easy to get it done.
*Mike, go out and hire an electrician to run your phone line. Even though it may seem to be an easy job, by the time you go out and by the tools and materials to do the job, along with the fact of the aggrevation you will go threw, it will be probably cheaper in the long run to hire an electrician. I am a 3rd year elec. apprentice and have had the unpleasant job of running phone lines in exsiting homes and beleive me it's a royal pain in the a**.
*Regarding the running of wire in a heating duct. A heating duct is considered a "plenum" and as such is covered by code which is designed to limit the release of toxic gases in the case of fire. Wires run in plenums need to have a special jacket and are designated as (surprise!) plenum cable . The plenum approved jacketed cable in the U.S. used to be pretty much only Teflon but some special PVC formulations are now available. There were many arguments as to whether teflon (which actually releases more toxic components than PVC when it burns but requires much higher temperatures to do so) was really superior to PVC in releasing toxic gases in a fire. But code is code...
*Ron, I know you were joking, but seriously, I did just that once.We had a long run in the attic, over parallel ceiling joists, behind a chimney, in a space which was about 2' high and 4' wide, and over 30' long. We had to run some 12-3, over some nasty knob and tube which we were replacing. We tried a snake, but was not straight enough. We tried a pull rod, but wasn't long enough. I tried throwing lines, but couldn't get a far enough throw.So my cousin has a big tomcat, that loves to eat, and as soon as he hears the can opener go off, he takes off toward it. So Cuz drives home, and gets the cat (named Dick) and we saddle him up with a pull string. Cuz takes the can opener to the other side of the home, and turns it on. The cat whizzes over the parallel studs and into his arms. Saved us hours of time.This is an absolutely true story.
*We ran into the plenum problem when doing a LAN room remodel for the FDA. Someone had run Liquid-Tite under the raised floor and it wasn't plenum rated. It was pretty new too. Then it became our responsibility to change it all out as we were doing the alterations.Billy
*Mike Taylor2 Home Depot does too carry pulleys. You have to look in the garage door hardware dept. I got a nice one, ball-bearing there for about 3 bucks but then it was made in China. It's about 3" dia. and you have to be carefull not to exceed the bending radius of Cat 5 cable in your clothesline.Rick Massic, Obviously you are not using the proper specified .50 cal. machine gun. Everytime I have tried it, it worked. The secret is to attach the wire with 3M "Scotch" Magic tape.--Peter
*Contact the property manager at the Batman studio. They have some wonderful self-propelled self retracting cable strong enough to pull two or more people up the side of a building. Should work for a simple task of pulling phone cable, even Cat 5.
*Peter, .50 calibre and Scotch "magic" tape!! OK The machine gun is no problem ( I'm on the SWAT team.), but I'm not sure I can find any of that "magic tape"....electrical supply store told me to check the magician's supply store. And do I set the gun on "semi-auto" or "full-auto"? Rick
*As an alternative, go to Circus City, Best Buy, etc. and get a 2.4 mhz base station type telephone. The extensions plug into the electrical wall plug (110 volts, +/- for California). No need to run phone wire.Mine is a Siemens brand. A little expensive but better than drilling holes and running wire.
*So, Scooter, if you're running Cat5, do you have to find four of Dick's buddies. Did you actually feed Dick, or were you just teasing him with the can opener. Might for grounds for unlawful enticement. Actually, I really loved your story. ?Any more "animal labour" stories out there???
*Rick, Scotch "Magic" tape is available at stationary stores - the ones that don't move. Besides attaching strings to bullets - not really a "no strings attached deal" - is is often better than masking tape when painting. It doesn't have those crinkly lines that paint leaks under. I learned that in plastic model airplane modeling school. As for full or semi-auto, Cat 5 cable has 8 wires in it so you need at least 8 holes. If you use 3 bursts of three shots each, you will get 9 holes which will allow you to install the sheathing also. I hope this somehow helps.--Peter
*How about a cell phone? I have free incoming calls,and caller ID.I like that cat trick. Ingeniuos.
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Folks,
Okay, I'm an amateur. Maybe worse. I was able to run phone line to first floor locations fine, but now that I'm trying to go to the 2nd floor, I'm stymied. The house is new construction, with 2x6 studs and fiberglass batt insulation. I pulled off a section of heater baseboard cover, and drilled at a 45 degree downward angle to get into the wall cavity. So far, so good. Now I find my snake won't snake because of there's too much of that good ol' Corning R-factor in the way. Am I an idiot for trying this? Should I just run surface wiring, or run it up a tree and in the window? Should I (gasp!) hire a professional?
Any help appreciated.
-Mike D.